Customer Reviews

Schubert: Symphonies 3 & 8 / Carlos Kleiber, Wiener Philharmoniker

5 star:		(11)
4 star:		(1)
3 star:		(3)
2 star:		(0)
1 star:		(0)

 

 

I gave Carlos Kleiber's 1978 recording of Schubert's "Unfinished" and 3rd (D Major) Symphonies 5 stars, but this is definitely for Kleiber's fans: and more about Kleiber than Schubert. Carlos Kleiber has become a cult figure with almost pop star following among music lovers the world over, largely because of his very small discography and frequent cancellations of live performances the last 20 years of his life. There is a certain mystery about Kleiber, and more is pondered about what he DIDN'T DO, as what he DID, both in recordings and live performances.

Carlos Kleiber (1930-2004) recorded these Schubert Symphonies 3 and 8 with the Vienna Philharmonic in 1978 for DG. The recorded sound is excellent, and the Vienna musicians play like angels. But be warned: in Symphony 3, the allegros are really FAST, and sound rather hasty after awhile. The Allegro section of I and IV sounds almost brutal, and as though Kleiber wanted to get through it as fast as possible. II is also the quickest I have ever heard, and is over with in just over 2 minutes. III, the Minuet, is also very fast: not for those who like Beecham and Bohm, with a slower, more stately minuet.

Symphony 8 is more in the mainstream, but lacks the intensity of Bruno Walter (Sony), Solti/Vienna (Decca), Bohm/Berlin (DG) or Bernstein/Concertgebouw (DG). Even though there is nothing wrong with Kleiber's interpretation, somehow this seems lacking compared with the above greater recordings.

So, if you are a Carlos Kleiber fan and want all his recordings (and there aren't alot of them) this is for you. If you are more interested in the best recordings of Schubert, go for Bohm/Berlin (DG), Beecham/Royal Philharmonic (EMI), Halasz/Failoni Orchestra (Naxos) for Symphony 3; or Walter/New York (Sony) or Bernstein/Concertgebouw (DG) for Symphony 8.

While I am generally quite a fan of Carlos Kleiber's work, I find that this recording of the 'Unfinished' symphony misses a dimension. Kleiber seems to have decided to adopt a similar approach to that which he used so successfully in his recordings of Brahms's 4th and Beethoven's 5th and 7th, but the 'Unfinished' symphony is a very different animal to what are generally fast-paced works calling for quite a hard-driven interpretative style. Kleiber emphasises Schubert's marked dynamic contrasts to extremes(the pianissimos are particularly quiet) but, after a while, this becomes wearing and feels a bit inconsequential. Having conducted the symphony on a number of occasions, I have come to realise that grading the dynamic contrasts as each movement progresses lends a much greater sense of cumulative power to the work; rather than blasting the first fortissimo as much as possible, as Kleiber does, I think it is better to hold something back for the repeat and recapitulation. The latter is emphasised by the addition of timpani but, here, Kleiber conveys no sense of this being the final descent into the abyss. That Kleiber's approach does not produce such dramatic results as he might have intended is clear from certain structural details; at the start of the development, for instance, the descending scale on cellos and basses that can sound so ominous is nowhere near as powerful as it can be, simply because Kleiber rushes his fences and doesn't allow time for the sense of foreboding to regster. The second movement is even less appropriately dealt with; it is taken rather faster than the marked 'andante con moto' and, consequently, the resigned beauty of the movement, very much in the spirit of Schubert's B flat piano sonata, is not as moving as it should be. Kleiber does achieve an admirable sense of stillness at the very end but, again, he misses many opportunities along the way; the horn solos just before the return of the main theme, for instance, are not nearly as sensitively shaped as they could have been(and, as in the first movement development, that this is in the buildup to an important structural point makes it all the more important that they should be). Although Kleiber's view can be seen as a valid one then, taking the music of a dying syphilitic as some kind of nervous and febrile utterance and thus pushing the symphony so hard and calling for such extreme dynamic contrasts every time, the interpretation relies on the dramatic moments rather than driving the work as a whole into one's consciousness. Gunter Wand's marvellous recording with the Berlin Philharmonic does all the things Kleiber misses and, although I realise that this is a matter of personal preference as much as anything, I can't help thinking that Wand- whose tempi are consistently slower but whose whole conception of the work is so much more powerful- gets a good deal closer to what Schubert must have had in mind. The third symphony fares altogether better with a similar approach, however. Written when Schubert was only 18, it has an inherent freshness and verve that benefits from Kleiber's tempi (which, as the Amazon review suggest, are often strikingly faster than what one expects)and rhythmic spring. Although elegant and polished, Sir Thomas Beecham's famous recording of the third symphony (on EMI) feels a little heavy after listening to the sense of fun that Kleiber imparts here. The Beecham approach is not 'wrong' in any way but, as the booklet notes say, Kleiber's fresher interpretation is perhaps more appropriate to such a youthful work. Three stars, then, for a fine rethinking of a neglected early work; for the 'Unfinished,' Gunter Wand's recording remains a clear first choice.

These two symphonies give you the light and the dark of Schubert. In order to really enjoy this recording one must listen very carefully to the inner voices. Pianissimos are so soft you can barely hear them. Pauses are just slightly longer than expected and one of Kleiber's strengths is bringing out passages that one ordinarily doesn't hear. Also, this is one of the more muscular renditions of Schubert. Rhythmically the 3rd is a joy. Be prepared to dance. Someone should have tied this man down and made him conduct more. Since listening to him, I've completely lost my taste for overblown, exaggerated romantic symphonies (except for Karajan). This recording belongs in every serious musician's library (and everyone else's as well)!

As with his recording of Beethoven's fifth and seventh, Kleiber's interpretation of Schubert's "Unfinished" takes a tempo that brings out the searing, steely intensity of the piece, and it succeeds brilliantly. He also chooses a brisk pace for the much lesser known third, and here it has a different but equally successful effect. The third is a happily unselfconscious symphony, and Kleiber brings out its innocence and energy perfectly. I think many conductors try to infuse Schubert's early symphonies with an earnestness that's not there, and I'm glad Kleiber chose to go with what I for one feel Schubert's intentions for this piece were. A good counterbalance to Kleiber's interpretations is Karl Bohm's forthright and convincing series, which I had on LP's a number of years ago but which don't seem to have appeared on CD yet. I hope they come out in the near future.

I agree wholeheartedly with the reviewer below who finds these interpretations too driven. There's something to be said for Kleiber's intensity, and of course the Vienna Philharmonic's playing is gorgeous. But I think that the intensity and "driven" quality of Kleiber's approach work better in his recordings of the Beethoven 5th and 7th and the Brahms 4th than they do here; the "Unfinished" calls for intensity, to be sure, but it must be matched by lyricism. I would suggest that listeners looking for a more balanced approach to this work look to Karl Böhm's recording with the Berlin Philharmonic, available in an inexpensive boxed set of all the Schubert symphonies or with the 9th on a super-budget Eloquence CD; I find it an exceptionally natural approach, lyrical and warm yet never lacking dramatic tension.

I've put the key words in the headline: this is tough-guy Schubert played relentlessly. The great Carlos Kleiber apes Toscanini here, giving us a reading of undeniable quality while making the journey so rough that it's hard to say whether it was enjoyable. Certain movements, like the seond in Sym. #3, are rushed to the point of eccentricity, yet the playing from the Vienna Phil. is never less than perfect. As with Toscanini, a listener may be won over by the performance's intensity while knowing that this isn't how Schubert should go. It's fashionable to view this most lovable of composers as moody, dark, and death-haunted, so Kleiber may be trying to make that point here. The same relentless quality applies to the "Unfinished" as well; the brass outbursts in the first movement are especially brutal.

Normally I would give this CD 3 stars for being so hard to listen to, but Kleiber always deserves respect, even when he's wrong-headed.

I have seven different recordings of the "Unfinished" symphony. This is my favorite. In comparison, all the others (by a lot of well-known conductors) sound kind of lazy and unfocused. This one is ROMANTIC in the extreme, full of passion and fireworks. Okay, the sound is not up to 21st century recording standards, but that's a small price to pay for inspired performances.

Like other collarborations between the Vienna Philharmonic and Carlos Kleiber, these are recordings to cherish.

I'm beginning to think that Schubert symphonies (like Beethoven's, Mozart's, Brahms's, and Haydn's) are pieces that you can't have too many versions of. In any case, this unusual pairing of the third and the "Unfinished" are played bracingly by Kleiber and the Vienna Philharmonic. Also, as far as I can tell the talented Carlos Kleiber didn't release nearly as many recordings as the average "name" conducter, so it's well to snap up what you can find by him.

During the early seventies, three batons seemed to illuminate the great international stages with resplendent talent. The young promise Michael Tilson Thomas, the unforgettable Istvan Kertesz and Carlos Kleiber.

Kleiber was visibly the most introverted of these glories. He always kept a low profile. And very selective. His negative to conduct the Berlin Philharmonic (when Karajan passed away) became him a cult personality, acclaimed by the great audiences. The Vienna and the Bavarian Orchestras were the most favored by his charisma and coup of grace. He emblematized the music by itself and his achievements were hovered by powerful attacks and sublime expressiveness with out ostentation or selfish behavior.

This Unfinished withstood the test of time and still is regarded as one of the supreme milestones of the recorded versions ever.

On the other hand, the Third is very good. But there's an insurmountable version. Kertesz- Vienna.

Don't miss it.