38 of 40 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
The author writes..., March 3, 2003
This review is from: Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship: Sigmund Ringeck's Commentaries on Liechtenauer (Hardcover)
I've read with interest the reviews posted here, and the many kind comments about my work that have appeared online at SwordForum, NetSword, and elsewhere. While I never overtly set out to produce a 'how-to' guide to Sigmund Ringeck's work, I am gratified that a great number of my readers have found the book to be of utility to them in their swordsmanship studies.
I do feel that I need to correct some misconceptions that may be created via the review by the 'Reader from Japan'. First, this book was in no way 'rushed to press'. Rather, my work here represents three years of intense study of this manuscript and the related material surrounding it (Martin Wierschin's transcription and comments, Hans-Peter Hils treatment of the Liechtenauer tradition). All of the interpretations depicted were evolved through practice with an enthusiastic core of students.
I am keenly aware of the existence of other illustrated works within the Liechtenauer tradition. Had the reviewer actually carefully read my work, he'd have noted several referenced to Hans Talhoffer's several surviving works (and please do purchase Mark Rector's excellent book "Medieval Combat", which treats one of Master Talhoffer's works). The reviewer is further in error about the corroborative nature of the illustrated manuscripts that he cites: while Talhoffer is within the Liechtenauer framework, he rarely shows techniques directly connected with Liechtenauer's verse; Codex Wallerstein is of a similar nature.
It's quite clear that the reviewer in question was much more keen to launch an attack than to cite errors of fact: his or her reference to some 'clique' trying to present me as an authority makes that clear. I'm not sure who the reviewer represents, or what the source of their ill will is, but for the record, of the reviewers posting here, the only one of any significant acquaintance is my friend and colleague Stephen Hand. I know Mr. McIlmoyle only through one meeting, while the others are strangers to me. Further, it's clear that the reviewer is unfamiliar with any of the major discussion fora related to Western Martial Arts - if he were, he'd be ashamed to accuse me of being unwilling to admit mistakes now that I'm a published author.
The accusation that I have in "many, many sections" willfully reversed the translation of the manuscript to fit my own conceptions of how the techniques should work is a very heavy one indeed, as it implies nefarious conduct on my part. Let me take a moment to address the reader's critique of my analysis of the techniques shown in on page 160, wherein he maintains that I simply ignore the words of Ringeck's treatise.
The reader begins by saying this technique involves "chopping down" on your opponent. He's off to a bad start here in trying to understand this action, as the technique begins with a rising cut from below originating from the guard called Nebenhut, where the sword is trailing beside one's left side. The reader then goes on to misread what Ringeck means when he refers to the sword's position in regard to one's left shoulder: he clearly says the point should be directed "to the rear of your left side". This ties in with remaining in the same relative position with one's hands, and thereby with your hilt. The `snapping' action over the sword, called Schnappen in German (which also appears, perhaps more clearly on pages 87-88), is an action that frees one from a strong bind: by driving the pommel forward, your blade comes parallel to your opponent's and thereby `snaps out' and over the bind. Now, I should note that picture 20.11 could have been presented better; my hands do withdraw too far back as the bind is released - in actuality all of this action happens with the hilt in very tight (such are the occassional failings of still photos showing complex physical actions). Lastly, and most puzzlingly, the reader believes that I ignore Ringeck's advice to strike the follow-on blow with the short, or false, edge of the sword. I most certainly *am* striking with the short edge in picture 20.12, which is quite obvious when the position of my right hand is examined: my knuckles are facing upward and my wrist is straight, neither of which would be possible if I were erroneously striking with the long, or true, edge of the sword.
In closing, I'd like to say that indeed there is always room for improvement in our understanding of these late Medieval fighting traditions. I, and the rest of the Western Martial Arts community, are still on a very steep learning curve. As I point out in the book's introduction, no one should fall too much in love with their current understanding, as it will continue to evolve with the passage of the years, and as more material is unearthed, translated, practiced. To the truly humble practitioner, whether he be author or reader, this is not a burden but rather a joy: there's still so much to learn!
Thanks again to the many wonderful readers who've bought this book. Your response has exceeded my expectations and made this endeavor (and its forthcoming successors) more than worth the effort!
[Note: The `Reader from Japan' originally posted under a different identity and afterwards modified his review without noting that he had done so, thereby making my own original rebuttal look rather senseless. I've edited my own comments here to address his revised comments. - CHT 10/26/2003]
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16 of 17 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
An excellent text......., November 2, 2003
This review is from: Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship: Sigmund Ringeck's Commentaries on Liechtenauer (Hardcover)
I have had the pleasure of owning this fine book for approximately one and a half years. During that time my knowledge of the medieval German art of fighting, Kunst des Fechten, has really blossomed. While I do attribute a great deal of this knowledge to hard work I must honestly say that without Mr. Tobler's excellent resource, I would not even be close to this point.
The book follows the fectbuch( fightbook) of Master Sigmunmd Ringeck,which is itself a glosa( explanation) of the merkverse of Master Johannes Liecthenaur. It is layed out well and it clearly defines in the presentation who is writing what. As an example, a page will start off with the dirct translation of Master Liechtenauer's merkverse( teaching verse, a mnemonic device) followed by Master Ringeck's clarification of the previous quote, and finally with Mr. Tobler's interpretation. I found this format especially pleasing as it made clear how the interpretation followed the translation, and allows the reader the chance to agree or disagree with Mr. Toblers personal interpretation. Directly after the translation and interpretives come the photo's. The photo's are fairly clear and generally give a good visual representation of what the author is trying to convey. I did find in some particularly involved concepts that the black and white images made depth perception a little more difficult then I would have liked, but that is a limitation of the medium and a necessary compromise to keep the cost of the book in the realm of attainability.
Master Ringeck's book covered unarmored Longsword fighting, sword and buckler, grappling and wrestling and finally armoured fighting and a very brief overview of mounted fighting techniques. The Longsword material makes up roughly half the book and is, in my opinion, the best option out there, bar none, for someone trying to learn the German tradition of Western Martial Arts(Kunst des Fechten). I highly recommend the book and Mr. Tobler's seminars both.
One final point, in defence of Mr. Tobler's character( which I believe seems to have been attacked here). In any interpretation of a five century old art, especially one with no living tradition that we are aware of, there are bound to be errors made. Mr. Tobler himself is very forthright about admitting that based on further research he believes that this or that point is perhaps different then he originally presented it. That, to me, is a strength of this Gentleman and should be commended. The alternative would be for Mr. Tobler to spend the next thirty years proofing his theories(and still possibly being incorrect) and then printing a book that has no audience. I, for one, will gladly suffer a few points that upon further reflection may not have been correct and are admitted to be as such by the author. One need only check any of the numerous forums which deal with Western martial Arts to see his posted corrections.
James Byrnes
Rocky Mountain Historical Combat Guild
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19 of 21 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Christian Tobler set the Bar High, April 26, 2002
This review is from: Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship: Sigmund Ringeck's Commentaries on Liechtenauer (Hardcover)
A few years ago when I Co-Founded The Academy Of European Medieval Martial Arts With David Cvet, we looked High and Low for good sources from which to study. Finding Few We resolved to collect all of the material we could find onto our website for anyone to use so that new practitioners would at least have a place to start. Christian Tobler in bringing Ringeck's work to the community in English has in the Publishing of "Secrets Of German Medieval Swordsmanship" opened entirely new doors in the study of Medieval Western Martial arts.
Now anyone can have complete access to this key work and with study and practice gain true skill in Medieval German Swordsmanship.
This book is very well designed and laid out, the translation is clear and concise, and Tobler's Interpritations of the techniques are well researched and executed. The Photos used to augment and enhance the text are clear and instructive.
In short this book is everything that anyone interested in the art could wish for.
Anyone embarking on the path to knowledge and Martial Skill in German Medieval Swordsmanship needs to buy this book.
This is not the kind of book that you read once and put on the shelf, this is a book that gets read, and re-read and accompanies you to the practice hall. In fact I suggest you buy 2 copies as one is sure to be soiled with sweat rust and blood. ( Mostly sweat )
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