Customer Reviews

Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship: Sigmund Ringeck's Commentaries on Liechtenauer

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I've read with interest the reviews posted here, and the many kind comments about my work that have appeared online at SwordForum, NetSword, and elsewhere. While I never overtly set out to produce a 'how-to' guide to Sigmund Ringeck's work, I am gratified that a great number of my readers have found the book to be of utility to them in their swordsmanship studies.

I do feel that I need to correct some misconceptions that may be created via the review by the 'Reader from Japan'. First, this book was in no way 'rushed to press'. Rather, my work here represents three years of intense study of this manuscript and the related material surrounding it (Martin Wierschin's transcription and comments, Hans-Peter Hils treatment of the Liechtenauer tradition). All of the interpretations depicted were evolved through practice with an enthusiastic core of students.

I am keenly aware of the existence of other illustrated works within the Liechtenauer tradition. Had the reviewer actually carefully read my work, he'd have noted several referenced to Hans Talhoffer's several surviving works (and please do purchase Mark Rector's excellent book "Medieval Combat", which treats one of Master Talhoffer's works). The reviewer is further in error about the corroborative nature of the illustrated manuscripts that he cites: while Talhoffer is within the Liechtenauer framework, he rarely shows techniques directly connected with Liechtenauer's verse; Codex Wallerstein is of a similar nature.

It's quite clear that the reviewer in question was much more keen to launch an attack than to cite errors of fact: his or her reference to some 'clique' trying to present me as an authority makes that clear. I'm not sure who the reviewer represents, or what the source of their ill will is, but for the record, of the reviewers posting here, the only one of any significant acquaintance is my friend and colleague Stephen Hand. I know Mr. McIlmoyle only through one meeting, while the others are strangers to me. Further, it's clear that the reviewer is unfamiliar with any of the major discussion fora related to Western Martial Arts - if he were, he'd be ashamed to accuse me of being unwilling to admit mistakes now that I'm a published author.

The accusation that I have in "many, many sections" willfully reversed the translation of the manuscript to fit my own conceptions of how the techniques should work is a very heavy one indeed, as it implies nefarious conduct on my part. Let me take a moment to address the reader's critique of my analysis of the techniques shown in on page 160, wherein he maintains that I simply ignore the words of Ringeck's treatise.

The reader begins by saying this technique involves "chopping down" on your opponent. He's off to a bad start here in trying to understand this action, as the technique begins with a rising cut from below originating from the guard called Nebenhut, where the sword is trailing beside one's left side. The reader then goes on to misread what Ringeck means when he refers to the sword's position in regard to one's left shoulder: he clearly says the point should be directed "to the rear of your left side". This ties in with remaining in the same relative position with one's hands, and thereby with your hilt. The `snapping' action over the sword, called Schnappen in German (which also appears, perhaps more clearly on pages 87-88), is an action that frees one from a strong bind: by driving the pommel forward, your blade comes parallel to your opponent's and thereby `snaps out' and over the bind. Now, I should note that picture 20.11 could have been presented better; my hands do withdraw too far back as the bind is released - in actuality all of this action happens with the hilt in very tight (such are the occassional failings of still photos showing complex physical actions). Lastly, and most puzzlingly, the reader believes that I ignore Ringeck's advice to strike the follow-on blow with the short, or false, edge of the sword. I most certainly *am* striking with the short edge in picture 20.12, which is quite obvious when the position of my right hand is examined: my knuckles are facing upward and my wrist is straight, neither of which would be possible if I were erroneously striking with the long, or true, edge of the sword.

In closing, I'd like to say that indeed there is always room for improvement in our understanding of these late Medieval fighting traditions. I, and the rest of the Western Martial Arts community, are still on a very steep learning curve. As I point out in the book's introduction, no one should fall too much in love with their current understanding, as it will continue to evolve with the passage of the years, and as more material is unearthed, translated, practiced. To the truly humble practitioner, whether he be author or reader, this is not a burden but rather a joy: there's still so much to learn!

Thanks again to the many wonderful readers who've bought this book. Your response has exceeded my expectations and made this endeavor (and its forthcoming successors) more than worth the effort!

[Note: The `Reader from Japan' originally posted under a different identity and afterwards modified his review without noting that he had done so, thereby making my own original rebuttal look rather senseless. I've edited my own comments here to address his revised comments. - CHT 10/26/2003]

I have had the pleasure of owning this fine book for approximately one and a half years. During that time my knowledge of the medieval German art of fighting, Kunst des Fechten, has really blossomed. While I do attribute a great deal of this knowledge to hard work I must honestly say that without Mr. Tobler's excellent resource, I would not even be close to this point.

The book follows the fectbuch( fightbook) of Master Sigmunmd Ringeck,which is itself a glosa( explanation) of the merkverse of Master Johannes Liecthenaur. It is layed out well and it clearly defines in the presentation who is writing what. As an example, a page will start off with the dirct translation of Master Liechtenauer's merkverse( teaching verse, a mnemonic device) followed by Master Ringeck's clarification of the previous quote, and finally with Mr. Tobler's interpretation. I found this format especially pleasing as it made clear how the interpretation followed the translation, and allows the reader the chance to agree or disagree with Mr. Toblers personal interpretation. Directly after the translation and interpretives come the photo's. The photo's are fairly clear and generally give a good visual representation of what the author is trying to convey. I did find in some particularly involved concepts that the black and white images made depth perception a little more difficult then I would have liked, but that is a limitation of the medium and a necessary compromise to keep the cost of the book in the realm of attainability.

Master Ringeck's book covered unarmored Longsword fighting, sword and buckler, grappling and wrestling and finally armoured fighting and a very brief overview of mounted fighting techniques. The Longsword material makes up roughly half the book and is, in my opinion, the best option out there, bar none, for someone trying to learn the German tradition of Western Martial Arts(Kunst des Fechten). I highly recommend the book and Mr. Tobler's seminars both.

One final point, in defence of Mr. Tobler's character( which I believe seems to have been attacked here). In any interpretation of a five century old art, especially one with no living tradition that we are aware of, there are bound to be errors made. Mr. Tobler himself is very forthright about admitting that based on further research he believes that this or that point is perhaps different then he originally presented it. That, to me, is a strength of this Gentleman and should be commended. The alternative would be for Mr. Tobler to spend the next thirty years proofing his theories(and still possibly being incorrect) and then printing a book that has no audience. I, for one, will gladly suffer a few points that upon further reflection may not have been correct and are admitted to be as such by the author. One need only check any of the numerous forums which deal with Western martial Arts to see his posted corrections.

James Byrnes
Rocky Mountain Historical Combat Guild

A few years ago when I Co-Founded The Academy Of European Medieval Martial Arts With David Cvet, we looked High and Low for good sources from which to study. Finding Few We resolved to collect all of the material we could find onto our website for anyone to use so that new practitioners would at least have a place to start. Christian Tobler in bringing Ringeck's work to the community in English has in the Publishing of "Secrets Of German Medieval Swordsmanship" opened entirely new doors in the study of Medieval Western Martial arts.
Now anyone can have complete access to this key work and with study and practice gain true skill in Medieval German Swordsmanship.
This book is very well designed and laid out, the translation is clear and concise, and Tobler's Interpritations of the techniques are well researched and executed. The Photos used to augment and enhance the text are clear and instructive.
In short this book is everything that anyone interested in the art could wish for.
Anyone embarking on the path to knowledge and Martial Skill in German Medieval Swordsmanship needs to buy this book.
This is not the kind of book that you read once and put on the shelf, this is a book that gets read, and re-read and accompanies you to the practice hall. In fact I suggest you buy 2 copies as one is sure to be soiled with sweat rust and blood. ( Mostly sweat )

Germany produced dozens of manuals on martial arts in the 1400's. Most of them stemmed from the work of one man, Johannes Lichtenauer. He is the root and baseline for much of German combat. If you understand him, you have a much better chance of understanding anyone from the Medieval German tradition. Understand the German tradition, and you can start understanding the general Medieval tradition. Understand that...it goes on. Basically, this is a great resource for anyone who wants to start using a sword or spear or even start wrestling. Ringeck presents a sophisticated system of combat, the equal of anything else in the world. Get it, no matter what kind of martial arts you dig. It will be worth it.

I first bought Mark Rector's _Medieval Combat_, but I didn't feel I truly grok'd many of the illustrations in that book until after I read this book.

For the most part I think that Mr. Tobler's interpretations of Ringeck's verse are dead on target. But in many cases, it seemed pretty nebulous what Ringeck meant - not that surprising considering we are trying to take a very abstract description of a full-sensory 4d event - verbal, and put back all those lost details.

In those cases were I couldn't figure out for myself what Ringeck meant, Mr. Tobler's work seemed at least internally consistant, and well thought out.

Again, excellant.

Before I recommend this book, I want to put a disclaimer in. The techniques in this book are DEADLY. I highly recommend that if you have never handled a steel weapon before, or even IF you are a trained Martial Artist, that you use a WASTER to practice this art. Good wooden Wasters from Purpleheartarmory are available through Amazon.com for a reasonable price. Repeat...even if you've handled edged weapons use a WASTER. Liechtenauer's methods were not meant to win a Martial Arts match...they were meant to KILL your opponent on a battlefield. Remember that when you practice.

Now to the review.

This book is by far one of the best and most comprehensive Martial Arts Books I've ever read. What makes it even more exciting is that this book deals with the subject of Medieval Western Combat as practiced by the German School of Johannes Liechtenauer and interpreted by his disciple, Sigmund Ringeck.

Master Christian Henry Tobler's presentation of Liechtenauer provides a complete system of Defense, including combat with Longswords, Short Swords and Bucklers, Hand-to-Hand-Combat and Armored Combat either on foot or on horseback and presents it in a manner that is clear, concise and easy-to-follow. The scope of this work is simply astounding and there is literally a life-times worth of study in this work alone, should you choose to concentrate on it.

Abundant photographs with supporting documentation and a comprehensive glossary put the icing on the cake. In short, this is the book many a martial artist looks for...a complete combat system. Yes...you can buy this book and you've got all you need.

Note:Daggers are not included, but as the author points out, it appears that this section of the original manuscript was probably lost a long time ago. However, even without dagger combat, this is a complete system.

As someone who's practiced Martial Arts for over thirty years, I feel the best facit of Liechtenauer's school is it's simplicity. In combat...the simpler the technique the better. Trust me...you will forget more complex techniques under a pressure situation...so Leichtenauer's philosophy makes abundant good sense.

As an Asian Martial Artist, I found the section on using the Half-Sword to be most exciting! There are really no comparable techniques in the Oriental Arts (although Chinese Broadsword fighting has some simularities.) The Half-Sword Technique lends a devestating new arsenal of moves to your combat reperitory that is well worth studying.

There is another version of Liechtenauer/Ringeck out by David Lindhold which is also excellent. However, I believe that Master Tobler's text is slightly superior in that 1:It uses photographs and not line drawings and 2:It contains everything (Lindholms version is split into two books.) However, if you become a serious student of Liechtenauer, I'd recommend eventually getting Lindholm as well...but buy THIS BOOK by Master Tobler FIRST.

As for the criticisms by the "reviewer from Japan" I'd say that these "criticisms" stem from the fact that it is DIFFICULT to interpret ancient Martial Arts Texts, even if the tradition survived! Everybody has a slightly different take on a text. But it is a credit to BOTH Master Tobler and Master Lindholm that they are virtually in agreement to Liechtenauer's techniques...which shows very careful analysis and scholarship (contrary to what the critical reviewer claimed.)

The previous "Japanese writer's" critiques are simply groundless and a similar criticism could be made of the over-killed "Book of Five Rings" by Musashi. I've studied Musashi for twenty years and have yet to figure out what he was really trying to say. Even the fact that there are schools in Japan that claim descent from Musashi doesn't help matters much...since you'll find differences from school-to-school. Frankly, you can go to two different Kendo schools and get different intrepretations of the SAME standardized techniques. Everybody will have a slighlty different twist on a technique.

In closing, the curious Martial Artist might ask me, which technique is superior...Eastern or Western? My answer is that it depends upon the Practitioner and the circumstances and the terrain. However...I feel that the WESTERN techniques are slightly superior. Let me explain.

Contrary to common opinion, the Eastern Arts (although they retained more combat techniques than Western Olympic Fencing, Boxing, etc.) are also all SPORTIZED versions of the original arts. In Japan this resulted from the Shogun supressing all the Samurai Houses and then Meiji trying to outlaw them. In China this came from the Manchus trying to supress the Native Chinese. The upstart is that the techniques that survived became sportified...whereas the techniques being revived by Western Masters like Christian Tobler and David Lindholm are the original FIGHTING techniques. Therefore someone who's practicing sport Kendo is going to be trounced by someone who knows Liechtenauer's system.

Today, most Asian Fighting Arts are for winning tournaments (as is the vaunted Gracie Ju-Jitsu and Ultimate Fighting League.) Sure, people might get beaten up, and sometimes beaten badly...but the goal isn't to KILL someone, it's to win a tournament by scoring points. In contrast, Liechtenauer is talking about KILLING someone. As one of my teachers said, "There'a BIG difference between Karate-do (Martial arts as a way of life) and Karate-show."

In closing, I feel it's VERY exciting that the Western arts are being revived. I look forward to the day when a revitalized system of Combat Masters exists and it would be possible for me to study with a WESTERN Master without having to move half-way across the United States.

Knighthood transcends nationality, and knowledge has no boundaries. In the pursuit of Martial Excellence to defend your family, your planet and yourself and to prefect your character in the process, the more dissemination of knowledge with different approaches to the problem, the better.

Christian Henry Tobler's book should set the bar for all future Martial Arts books, be they concerned with an Eastern Art or a Western Art. It's well worth the price...but...remember...please use a WASTER and BE SAFE.

Ever dreamt of being that Knight breaking lance and thrashing sword upon enemy? Your dream can easily come true! This book, Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship is by far one of the best books I have whitnesed. The book shows people combat techniques for a wide diversity of styles. It shows armed combat, sword fighting, unarmed combat and much more that deals with the sword and even a section on fighting on a horse. Even after training with the sword, this book will expand one's knowledge of swordsmanship. The book is worth every penny of the price. It also serves as a great reference book if one is to fight at a show. This is a book that you definently want to pick up!

The author does a great job of making the historical text easy to understand. The book is really interesting from a historical standpoint, too. I found it fascinating to read the riddle-like descriptions of moves by a german swordmaster (he didn't want those who didn't already know the system to understand) followed by the explanation given by one of his students (he wanted anyone who was familiar with swords to be able to understand the system). For anyone interested in medieval swordplay, this is an excellent read.

This book is essential for anyone interested in doing medieval swordsmanship. Tobler has done all the hard work for you, he has interpreted the moves perfectly. There is very little guesswork left up to you, each move has many pictures showing every subtle change in position. Easy to follow and the pictures are very clear. A great book, none better.

`Western martial arts are every bit as sophisticated as their Asian counterparts. The German martial systems incorporate both armed and unarmed combat, with and without armor, on foot and on horseback, using daggers, long and short swords, bucklers, shields, falchions, and spears and poleaxes.'

In Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship, Christian Henry Tobler has done an outstanding job of introducing the reader to the skills and methods of the Germanic man-at-arms.

The book is broken down into five major sections:
>> Longsword Techniques
>> Sword & Buckler
>> Wrestling Techniques
>> Armored Combat
>> Mounted Combat

Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship is an interpretation of the teachings of Master Johannes Liechtenauer and of the later work in the 15th Century of Sigmund Ringeck, a descendant of the Liechtenauer school and master-at-arms to Albrecht, Count Palatine of the Rhine and Duke of Bavaria.

While there were, of course, no photographs in the 15th Century ~ Christian Henry Tobler has filled Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship with hundreds of photographs demonstrating the techniques of the masters. He has made an accurate interpretation of the techniques described in the writings of the masters and displays that described in photographs.

Each photograph is clear and in sequence allows the reader to learn the techniques of the masters. These techniques are highly effective and the more one practices, the greater insight one gains into the secrets of the masters of arms of the 15th Century.

The book concludes with a glossary of terms well-worth learning to improve understanding of this text and others related to it.

I found Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship to be an absolutely indispensable reference for the student of Medieval Swordsmanship and Western Martial Arts.