Customer Reviews

Songs for Beginners[CD/DVD-Audio]

5 star:		(16)
4 star:		(4)
3 star:		(2)
2 star:		(3)
1 star:		(1)

 

 

I have two main problems with this re-mix:
1. The CD is VERY compressed and clips with practically every drum kick. It's just as loud as a modern metal CD! why do this? HIGHER VOLUME DOESN'T EQUAL HIGHER FIDELITY!

2. It sounds like a completely different album. With all the wizardry of modern studio equipment they pretty much made this sound like it was recorded yesterday. Why? This is not the "songs for beginners" you grew up on. The new mix reveals many things you never heard before but obscures many of the subtleties of the original.

In the end, I can't give it one star because I love this album so much; but this isn't really it... I'd take a scratched-up dollar bin vinyl copy over this release any day of the week.

Nash and his team did a superb job of remixing (NOT re-recording) and resurrecting this record. This one's right up there with the IICORMN Crosby remix. What makes this package especially great is that not only is there a fantastic surround mix, but great care was taken to remix the stereo mix, mastered by the great Doug Sax. Phil Lesh's bass sounds amazing! So if you aren't able to listen in 5:1, it's still well worth picking up. Unfortunately I downloaded the older version on i-tunes a few months back. Loading in this new version and a/b-ing them, it's no contest. Take it from someone who purchased the original vinyl version back in the day, the songs and the sound of this album ranks as the very best of CSN and even Y.

I was disappointed in this release. They changed everything around. The original feel is gone which is what really is important to keep during a restoration of any kind. Let's just talk about (Track 10) "CHICAGO".
They start off adding acoustic guitar to the first verse bullying out the Afuche Cabasa, tambourine and the organ. Let's add the lyrics "It's dying" again to make it sound like a mistake. Maybe it was edited out on the original who knows it did not work.
The song/album was perfect why F with it. "Songs for Beginners" is a terrific album I just wish that reissue studio remixers were taught a course in "Respect for Works of Art" during there training. Sorry Graham I hope it was not you that asked for these changes. Get the Atlantic CD release (7204-2) and you will feel the songs again. The sound quality is good some EQ tweaks on your system and then experience "Songs for Beginners" the best way so far.

1 star!?!
Based on listening to download clips!?!
C'mon man get a grip really.
This is HIGH RESOLUTION disc.
This is a beautiful recording of a brilliant album FINALLY getting the treatment it deserves.
Both the 2 channel and surround are a stunning revelation.

With Stephen Stills and David Crosby having produced absolute storming debut albums in November 1970 and March 1971, Graham Nash's quietly lovely opener didn't disappoint either - in fact in the early Seventies - it seemed like everything the combined and individual talents of CSYN did was magical. This October 2008 DELUXE EDITION celebrates "Songs For Beginners" with a Remastered Stereo Remix of the album on the stand alone first disc, while the second disc is a 5.1 DVD Audio Mix (you need a DVD Audio player to hear it on) with an added DVD Interview about his Photography featuring a Gallery of Stills, Photo-Backed Lyrics & Web Links etc.

"Songs For Beginners" was released in June 1971 on Atlantic SD 7204 in the USA and Atlantic 2401 011 in the UK. The album featured many famous guests (one is uncredited), so here's a detailed breakdown (33:47 minutes):

1. Military Madness [DAVE MASON of Traffic on Guitar with RITA COOLIDGE on Backing Vocals]
2. Better Days [NEIL YOUNG (credited as Joe Yankee) on Piano, SEEMON POSTHUMA of THE FOOL on Clarinet, RITA COOLIDGE on Backing Vocals with DALLAS TAYLOR of CSYN and MANASSAS on Drums]
3. Wounded Bird [GN all instruments and voices]
4. I Used To Be A King [NEIL YOUNG (credited as Joe Yankee) on Piano, JERRY GARCIA on Steel Guitar with PHIL LESH on Bass (both of THE GRATEFUL DEAD) and DAVID CROSBY on Electric Guitar]
5. Be Yourself [RITA COOLIDGE on Piano, Electric Piano and Backing Vocals]
6. Simple Man [DAVID LINDLEY on Fiddle, DORIAN RUDNYTSKY of THE NEW YORK ROCK & ROLL ENSEMBLE on Cello with RITA COOLIDGE on backing Vocals]
7. Man In The Mirror [NEIL YOUNG [credited as Joe Yankee] on Piano, JERRY GARCIA of THE GRATEFUL DEAD on Steel Guitar, CHRIS ETHERIDGE of THE FLYING BURRITO BROTHERS on Bass]
8. There's Only One [RITA COOLIDGE on Piano & Backing Vocals, CHRIS ETHERIDGE on Bass, BOBBY KEYS on Saxophone with VANETTA FIELDS, SHIRLEY MATTHEWS, CLYDIE KING & DOROTHY MORRISON on Backing Vocals (The Blackberries)]
9. Sleep Song [DAVE MASON on Guitar with RITA COOLIDGE on Backing Vocals]
10. Chicago [DORIAN RUDNYTSKY on Cello]
11. We Can Change The World [RITA COOLIDGE, VANETTA FIELDS...DOROTHY MORRISON on Backing Vocals]

The 20-page booklet has an essay on the album and its star-studded background by noted writer DAVID FRICKE - it features Session Photos, Lyrics, Detailed recording and reissue credits - and even a picture of the master tapes.

But for fans the big news is the SOUND. The CD album has been Stereo Remixed & Remastered and the quality isn't just good - it's fabulous - BREATHTAKING. "Better Days" has a very quiet Piano and Vocal Intro - it's spotlessly clean - and when the band kicks in - it's an absolute wow! The mastering is credited to DOUG SAX and SANGWOOK NAM at The Mastering Lab, Ojai - and they should both be Grammy nominated for it. "Days" is followed by the Acoustic and Vocal-only of "Wounded Bird" (a song for Stephen Stills and Judy Collins and their troubled relationship) and it's a lovely as it gets - BEAUTIFULLY restored. The delicately aching Cello work of Dorian Rudnytsky combines with Rita Coolidge's Backing Vocals on "Simple Man" to genuinely touching effect, while Jerry Garcia's Steel Guitar on "Man In the Mirror" adds a lot from an instrument you wouldn't expect from him. And on three tracks there's Neil Young - plinking away - putting in genuinely superb Piano work (he was credited as Joe Yankee for legal reasons).

I find the 2nd disc, however, problematic. I don't have a DVD AUDIO player and 99% of the planet doesn't either - it's a dead format. Disc 2 features the entire album in Advanced Resolution 5.1 Surround Sound, Dolby Digital & DTS - wonderful stuff guys - if I could play it! But the really disappointing part is the complete lack of anything new - no outtakes, no demos - not even a live recording. However - and although it's completely unrelated to the album - things improve on the DVD part of the disc - it contains an interview with Nash about his lifetime obsession with black and white photography - and its fascinating - a lovely man, intelligent, sensitive - and you suspect a real peacekeeper among huge egos that often got out of hand. Then there's the gallery of images (he explains many of them in the interview) - I won't spoil it too much for those who are going to buy this except to say that there are captured moments on here of Joni, Neil, Stills and especially his lifetime pal David Crosby that will reduce some people to tears.

To sum up - a beautifully realized first disc - with a slightly odd and unrepresentative 2nd. Still - for fans of the album - this is a no brainer - the gorgeous remaster means you simply have to own it. Recommended.

PS: Note to Rhino - Deluxe Editions please of "Stephen Stills", "Harvest" and "Manassas"

I just purchased the Graham Nash Songs For Beginners cd/dvd-a set. I'm having an issue with the dvd-a.

In my Pioneer DV-578A universal player, which has dvd-a capability, when I insert the disc the menu comes up fine. However, when I select play the machine freezes up, to the point that the only thing i can do is unplug the player to unfreeze it. This is repeatable.

The dvd plays fine in my regular non dvd-a dvd player, also a Pioneer. The universal player has never before had a problem with dvd-a. I also just checked it with another dvd-a, which plays fine. Does any one have any idea what's going on? Has anyone else experienced this?

Edit: I've finally figured out that the Pioneer 578-a has a bug where it has trouble with all hybrid dvd-a discs. It plays straight dvd-a's fine, but with hybrids (depending on the firmware) it either locks up or only plays the dvd video audio track. Not the disc's fault.

Edit #2: I recently found an unofficial firmware update for my player on line which kind of solves this problem. I say kind of, because I still have to press an odd sequence of buttons on the remote for it to play. If anyone reading this has a 578, you may want to search for this firmware.
____________________________________________________________________
Here's my thoughts on the cd:

I am really disappointed in the new mix. As the album is under 34 minutes, I think it's a travesty that Nash didn't put both mixes on the cd, or even the old mix on the cd & the new mix on the dvd. I believe my dislike is partly because of 30+ years of listening to the old mix, but also that this mix harms the music. The gated drums are a joke in this context; they'd be at home with Billy Idol, & the multiple previously inaudible mistakes are a huge distraction for me.

Here's a few specific comments:

1. Regarding several comments here & elsewhere that the drums sound re-recorded or sampled: I have some studio experience. What I heard on Better Days & several others was likely the original drums, but with a very loud & prominent gated reverb added that was not on the original mix. The drums were also mixed louder then in the original. I have no clue WHY Nash made that choice; imo it harms the songs.

2. I get the impression that Nash decided he wanted every tiny part that was sitting anywhere on the multi track masters to be clearly audible, even at the expense of the song as a whole.

3. I never noticed before that the acoustic guitar on Be Yourself is slightly out of tune. There are also some wrong bass notes on the piano that I never heard before on the 1st verse. I heard numerous muffed parts throughout the cd which I've never noticed before; I suspect they were intentionally buried in the original mix.

I'm definitely going to keep my original cd. I haven't yet decided if I'm going to keep this. The mastering is tremendous, but so far I'm not fond of this mix. It sounds like a totally different album, & some of the parts don't fit; little mistakes that were previously buried are now loud & clear, especially on the drums.

This is for sure remastered and re-mixed. Once you get used to the snare drum sounding like a cannon going off (hardly a product of the 70's) it's not too bad. The 5.1 mix is pretty cool. If you can't take a different mix of this Album, don't buy it. It's not the same. I'm keeping my original CD forever. Yet this has it's place too. Still glad I bought it.

After all these years the songs on this album are still strong. Straight from the heart I would say.
About sound quality (this re-release focusses on enhanced sound): if you expect to hear the original sound but in better quality you will certainly be disappointed. This is not just a simple high resolution remix. Many things have changed: intros and extros have been deleted, instrument positions in the stereo image have changed completely, some recording channels have been deleted or added, and so on. As a results some of the songs have gotten a completely different atmosphere. And no, those are not re-recordings by the way.
In this new format you can clearly hear the limitations of the recording at those early years.
And yes, I agree: it would have been nice to have the original mix on the DVD as well (for those who never heard it before).

All in all it gives some mixed feelings, but also a 'new old product' to experience again. And there are a few bonus things like nice artwork, background information and an interview with Graham Nash.

I grew up listening to this album. I know it like the back of my hand. The original version is moving and I have it on vinyl. I was so excited to purchase it on cd because I have been hunting for it for years. BEWARE! It is not the same album.
The re-mixes sounds flat and over produced. The raw mood on "Chicago" for instance is gone and replaced with a slicker sound and the addition of certain background vocals that were never there in the first place. The over all sound of the re-mix makes the track sound thin. On the original version of the album you really felt the vibe of revolution. It was powerful and urgent sounding. You wanted to go to Chicago. You felt you could change the world. This new version sounds like someone removed from the whole event is telling the story in a restrained manner. The overall effect is unemotional and falls flat. It's like the difference between a witness and a participant, and in this new mix the singer wasn't there.
I wanted to weep. Especially for the price I paid. Plus, what the heck is going on with this trend to include a DVD with every reissued CD? If I want a DVD I will buy a DVD thank you very much. I don't need the price of my cd jacked up so I can see someone reflect in an interview on the original process.
Overall, disappointing. Don't get me wrong, it's still a terrific album, but the opportunity to reach a new audiance may be lost because they just couldn't leave well enough alone.

This sounds a LOT different than previous versions, but it was remixed. The CD label says that pretty clearly. I doubt any re-recording was done, or anything was added, but I guess I could be wrong. My impression is that the remixing and remastering has just made everything sound cleaner and more crisp -- a LOT more crisp. I think it sounds great. Nice package, too, with lots of great photos.