Customer Reviews

Soundtrack to the Apocalypse (Dlx)

5 star:		(24)
4 star:		(14)
3 star:		(6)
2 star:		(8)
1 star:		(7)

 

 

Let me start by saying that I missed the Best Buy sale and actually dropped full price for this, so already I'm rubbed the wrong way...

This thing has been hyped for over two years now (maybe more)...we were told that it would be packaged in an artillery shell, that it would contain remakes of early classics, that it would have a DVD containg all their promo videos, as well as behind the scenes personal stuff filmed on Kerry's camcorder, blah, blah, blah. Having shelled out almost an entire C-note for this, I have to say that I am not only disappointed but honestly feel that I've been ripped off. 'Soundtrack to the Apocalypse' is nothing more than a cash grab, pure and simple.

Here are my grievances:

1. THE PACKAGING - I heard that the artillery shell was canned and replaced with an ammo box. Okay, fine. What we get is a cheap cardboard box that's supposed to look like an ammo box...and it doesn't.

2. THE TRINKETS - so what do you get for the extra price of this limited edition? A "backstage pass replica" that's nothing more than a plastic card with a Slayer logo on it dangling from a neck cord. Ooh, wow, neato. NOT. A cheap, unimaginative wall banner. And a new version of the 1990 "blood pack" containing a live show from their first tour for 'God Hates Us All', which was the weakest Slayer show I've seen (the subsequent Jagermeister tour was much better); it's the same pack with the floating skulls and looks like it was left over.

3. THE MATERIAL - the first two CD's are stuff that any self-respecting Slayer fan has already bought or downloaded, but where's "Sick Boy", or their hilarious butchering of "Born to Be Wild"? CD three does offer some interesting and funny stuff (Tom's now-infamous live introduction to 'Necrophiliac' circa 1986-87 is finally given an official release...heh heh), but where are the those remakes we were promised, huh? Disc four is a DVD comprised of good-quality bootleg stuff, but I have many Slayer bootlegs that are much better and more interesting. The promo video clips? Nowhere to be found. The personal footage? A clip of the band accepting some award from Dino of Fear Factory...that's it. HELLO?!

About the only really great thing about this box set is the enclosed booklet, which is in fact excellent, containg many cool photos, facts, history, and fan impressions. The guy that wrote this should have been put in charge of the entire project, I think.

Call me cynical, but this whole thing feels like some high school science project that was put off until the last minute and hastily done the night before the due date. Let me say this: if the goodies that were promised for this box set end up being presented in some "super ultra-deluxe limited edition" down the road that cost even more than this does, well...

What an apocalyptic letdown.

First of all - this is not the be all and end all of box sets. But this regular version is far from being a rip off (I even got it for only $39). Obviously, this set is a better deal for people who do not have all of their previous releases. But there is also some other stuff that hasn't been released before on the rarities disc and DVD that I think is worth having.

Let's break it down disc by disc.

Disc 1: This is a 'best of' studio track CD going from Reign in Blood through Season in the Abyss, plus three tracks from Decade of Aggression. I never bought Decade of Aggression so at least there is something on it that is not duplicates of what I already own.

Disc 2: 'Best of' from Divine Intervention through God Hates Us All, plus studio tracks from soundtracks and Japan releases. I never bought Undisputed Attitude or Diabolus in Musica. There are 14 tracks on this one that I don't have.

Disc 3: Audio rarities. Range from raw recordings from the very early days in 1983 to recent live cuts from God Hates Us All. Two of the most interesting cuts are from Jeff Hanneman's home recordings that give you an idea how Raining Blood and South of Heaven were fleshed out from the original concept. I could do without the 'maggot story' included with Necrophiliac and the track with Atari Teenage Riot.

Disc 4 (DVD): This is great. Some of it is pretty raw but you really get to see how the band has evolved from four inexperienced guys wearing eyeliner crowded onto a small club stage to the precisely executed chaotic auditorium shows of today. Please note that this DVD is primarily for the historical value for interested fans. If you want a top-quality concert performance with excellent audio and sound quality, get the War at the Warfield DVD.

The 72-page booklet also adds some value. It has some interesting anecdotes and is more than a generic rehash of the band's official bio.

So, if you only own a couple Slayer CDs this set should provide a cheaper alternative to getting the entire back catalog. If you have all the studio albums it depends how bad you want to hear the rare stuff and view the DVD. I think its worth it.

Let me preface this review by noting that all of the people I've seen who criticize the people who have rightfully pointed out the shortcomings of this set have been by and far illiterate come-latelys. I've been into Slayer since "Show No Mercy" was released--don't tell me I have no right to critique a $90 box set just because mommy and daddy bought you "Divine Intervention" and you think Slayer are above judgment. But I'm about to put this overpriced aberration on the Altar of Sacrifice.

I don't really care about the packaging too much. A metal box would have been nicer than a cardboard one, sure, but I bought the set for the music, not the packaging. But take a look at the discs themselves. All except the DVD are black. Now, as far as I know, a laser beam can't go through totally opaque plastic...Folks, we're being peddled professionally-made CD-Rs. Let's look at the discs Piece By Piece.

Discs 1 and 2 are best-of discs, with disc 2 including some more recent rarities and B-sides. They've chosen to totally neglect all studio versions from the band's Metal Blade years, so I'm already predisposed against them. You can't tell me "Die By The Sword" doesn't belong among this band's best-ofs.

Disc 3 consists of "rarities." Now, to be fair, I realize many of you haven't heard much of this stuff. Out of all the 80s era material on the disc, I had everything as a dub or bootleg except for TWO songs. It's nice to hear live versions of some of their early tunes, but they're available out there through trading! How about some real rarities, like the cover of the Gumby theme song? How about the rehearsal version of "Warlock's Revenge," the other early NWOBHM-inspired tunes played live with "Ice Titan," or the never-released "The High Priestess?" Where are the rest of the Jeff Hanneman recordings? They're incomplete here. Rather than attempting a cross-section of rarities from the band's career, I would have just liked to see one or two complete vintage shows, as was done with the Iron Maiden box set.

The DVD has some nice material (I think the first two '83 DVD tracks are probably the best thing out of this set), but again, it spreads itself too thin by trying to cover every Slayer era.

I can appreciate the rationale behind the gig on the bonus CD, since it has Lombardo's return, so it's historically important, but it's certainly not a standout show, and again, the early material is decidedly neglected (note how there's nothing from "Show No Mercy" proper).

While there's some good material on here, this box set is trying to fulfill too many purposes at once for the amount of material it contains. A box set does not immediately equate to a best-of (nor a retrospective). But this is being marketed as the Slayer be-all, end-all, and as a fan of their first two albums, I have to laugh at that and how little of that era they really displayed. I really don't care about seeing their recent material in a box set--in 20 years, if that's still stood the test of time, they can release another box set then! Even Slayer themselves must realize their older stuff is better; that's why they're playing "Reign In Blood" in its totality during current gigs!

If you're a new fan or you really like their later stuff, this lackluster set of 4 CD-Rs and a DVD may be worth your while. But Aggressive Perfectors won't find anything here that isn't represented equally as well (or even better, in some cases) on live audio/video bootlegs. Even paying the lower price of the non-deluxe edition for some CD-Rs with only a few truly rare songs is nonsense to me. Again, whoever put this shoddy collection together could have taken a big hint from the "Eddie's Archives" box.

Seeing as how they're already resting on the laurels of "Reign in Blood," it's doubtful Slayer will ever truly Kill Again. I'm somewhat saddened that this box was so long in the making, yet leaves so much old stuff still untouched in the Crypts of Eternity.

Too little, too late.

As much as I like Slayer's music, I am a bit underwhelmed by this box set. My primary complaints are two-fold: First, I think the arrangement of the songs (i.e. 5 songs from this album, 5 songs from this album, etc.) is boring and uncreative. Couldn't they have mingled the old with the new? Couldn't they have mixed live tracks with the album tracks? Second, the unreleased material is pretty worthless. The production is terrible and I don't quite see the historical significance. The packaging is good, particularly the booklet, but a pretty package does not make a box set great. Unfortunately, this set appears to have been quickly thrown together just in time for the holidays.

If you are someone just getting in to Slayer, I would not buy this set-- instead, spend your money on Reign in Blood, South of Heaven, and Seasons in the Abyss. I have never gotten sick of any of these albums and I doubt you will either. This sloppy set though, you will get sick of.

This collection is weak. I've been into Slayer for years- since Show No Mercy. Anybody notice there's nothing from Mercy,Chapel, or Hell Awaits, except a couple live cuts from DOA. What happened to the rerecorded versions with Bostaph that were much talked about? Then you're missing Sickboy, Hand Of Doom, the rare Seasons. None of the music videos. No interview or backstage footage. None of the supposed 50 songs recorded for Undisputed Attitude. All in a CARDBOARD! ammobox. Anyone remember the limited edition STEEL case for DOA. I would have been happy to pay more for a more loaded collection that included the metal blade stuff Instead of a greatest hits with a handful of extras. Slayer is the greatest metal band ever, but this collection is pretty weak overall.

I'm a big slayer fan. I've seen them 6 times over the last three years, got all their albums, blah blah blah. I got the deluxe slayer set for xmas and while I like some of it, overall it's a huge ripoff.

1) Almost all of discs I and II are songs a slayer fan already has. I doubt that a non-fan would be buying a deluxe box set so discs I and II are a complete waste of time/space/money

2) Many of the "rarities" on this disc have been widely circulated in bootleg form. The diehard slayer fans who should be interested in this box set probably have them too.

3) Some of the rare live tracks sound really bad. There's some sort of weird miking or stereo panning on the toms so you can't listen to it on headphones without becoming very annoyed.

4) The live dvd is interesting but could have been better. At least show us a trip to the beer store like in Cliff Em All.

5) The bonus "blood pak" disc is a great live set with Lombardo. Sounds great, unfortunate that they decided to dedicate one disc to the concert so they had to edit some tracks out. Why not omit one of the greatest hits cds and spread the concert over two discs? Is this set supposed to be for the fans or what?

40 extra bucks for a cardboard box, a banner, a piece of plastic on a string, a cheeseball plastic disc case with BOTH red liquid AND glittering tinfoil skulls floating around in it. Oooooooh, scary. I might pay 5 or 10 bucks for this bonus stuff. Maybe another 5 bucks for the 70 page book. I guess that makes the live CD worth 25-30 bucks, which is a ripoff even if it is good.

In short this should have been a four disc set, no greatest hits, one disc of real rarities, one dvd with a beer store scene, and a two cd Lombardo concert in Anaheim. Leave out all the cardboard crap and charge less for it. It's sad that they chose to gouge the true fan instead of providing something their fans really want. They certainly had plenty of time to put it together. Sigh.

Can only recommend to diehards who need to buy everything slayer releases. I can't recommend this or the "Regular Edition" boxset to anyone else because that boxset seems to be aimed at slayer newbies, who probably wouldn't want to blow money on a boxset of an artist they don't know too well. I just don't get it. I'm sure it makes sense to slayer's accountant, though.

As a fan of Slayer who did not own too many of their releases I thought that this was an excellent purchase for the price, though I do not neccessarily think that thats the case with those who own all or even most of Slayer's releases.

The greatest hits portion of this collection, the first two CD's, is an excellet summary of Slayer's career and the main reason that I purchased it. It offes some of the best songs from Slayer's post-Metal Blade releases, which means no studio versions of any songs from Show No Mercy or Hell Awaits, though it does feature live versions of songs from those records from Decade of Aggression.. There are five songs each from most of their CD's, though their three releases after Divine Intervention only have three each. There are also a few extra songs, two from the Japanese release of Diabolus and two from the Japenese release of God Hates Us All, the latter being two excelent tracks, "Adict" and "Scarstruck". I could have done without the song with Ice-T, and the song "Memories of Tomarrow" (which I think is from the Bride of Chucky" soundtrack) was alrigt, though nothing special.

The third CD features live material. There are a few live versions of songs on the first two CD's, but the more enjoyable songs are the early versions of "Raining Blood" and South of Heaven" taken from Jeff's home recordings as well as live versions of a few songs not on the first two disks. The song with Atari Teenage Riot was pretty awful to be honest, but on the whole, this live CD is a welcome, if not spectacular, addition to the box set.

The four disk is a DVD with live performances (including some Show No Mercy tunes at a concert in 1983) and a few extra features like Slayer winning the "Heaviest Band Award" and a short video about the making of Diabolus. Its also a welcome addition to the boxset, though people who own other live Slayer material might not be too impressed as it doesn't offer too much thats unique.

The set also comes with a 72 page booklet, which is a quick though enjoyable read about the band's history and music. Its full of pictures of and quotes from the band, and further enhances the collection.

I would recommend this box set to any Slayer fan who doesn't own very many of their CD's as its a nice summary of their work. People with a complete or near complete Slayer collection should probably only get this if they need to have everything put out by Slayer, or if they really want the few extra goodies it offers, as it doesn't really have too much to offer thats completely new. A good box set overall, and certainly welcomed by those like myself who don't want to spend too much completeing our Slayer collections.

Let's face it... the only people who are going to shell out $100 on a Slayer box set are die-hard Slayer fans. So the question is, is this set worth the hefty price tag?
Well I think it really depends on just how big of a Slayer fanatic you really are. If you are the type who just has to have everything a certain band puts out then yeah you'll want this. But if you are simply someone looking for the best the band has to offer I would suggest looking elsewhere.
What are some of the pro's and con's of this set?
Slayer (or whoever packaged this set) clearly intended this box-set both to recap their career and to offer lots of unreleased and rare goodies for collectors. Now there are two problems with this. First is the fact that anyone who would be willing to spend $100 on a Slayer product already has all of the tracks that the band is re-capping. In other words most of the first two discs on this set are pointless for the majority of the people who would buy this set as they would already have them all! But... the idea of offering a "best-of" overview as a way of celebrating twenty years of the band's existence does make sense. The next most obvious problem with this however is that American does not have access to Slayer's first 4 releases! It is simply impossible to have a satisfying retrospective of Slayer's career without healthy samplings from Show No Mercy, Haunting the Chapel and Hell Awaits (luckily there are some live recordings and footage of tracks from these albums to be found on other discs). Next I have to question the sanity of some of the choices on the retrospective... I mean who seriously needs the Criminally Insane (Remix) or the re-working of Aggresive Perfector when they could have put Altar of Sacrifice or Jesus Saves on? Another odd thing is the arrangment of placing Live Undead after South of Heaven and THEN placing Silent Scream after Live Undead... this of course ruins the transition that occurs on the original recording from South of Heaven to Silent Scream. Most of the other track selections are reasonable so I won't complain anymore.
A more interesting idea would be to put two complete concerts from the 80's on the first two discs instead of the "best-of" idea. Say a complete show from the Hell Awaits era or the Reign in Blood era coupled with one from the South of Heaven era. I chose these eras as they are the only era's (sans Diabolous in Musica) not covered in any official live release from the band: the Show No Mercy/Haunting the Chapel era is documented on Live Undead, Seasons in the Abyss is documented on Live: Decade of Aggression, etc. In fact there are NO live videos or recordings from 87-89 on this entire set... in other words while there are performances from virtually every year in Slayer's career on here the entire South of Heaven era remains blank. Very odd.
The rest of the rare tracks on disc two are pretty awful and not really worth talking about.
Now the third disc on the other hand is rather interesting. Aside from the AWFUL "No Remorse (I Wanna Die)" with Atari Teenage Riot this is a pretty good collection of tracks. It has a few songs that have never appeared on any Slayer live performance before. The DVD is even more interesting as it has footage from some of Slayer's earliest shows (the film quality is awful by the way). My only real beef with the material on these two discs is that it has too many tracks that every Slayer fan has already on other live recordings (Mandatory Suicide, War Ensemble, etc.). Personally I would have LOVED a live recording of Kill Again, Behind the Crooked Cross, Crypts of Eternity or even another recording of Black Magic (which is NOWHERE to be found on this box-set as is Captor of Sin).
Finally an entire live CD recorded in 2002 is included in the deluxe version. Overall this is a very good show (it includes the classic At Dawn They Sleep). While far from a flawless performance this is still very enjoyable.
The bonus features include a pointless backstage pass, a photo packed booklet and a cloth wall hangning. The booklet aside from the writing which grows a bit tedious at times is very good.
Overrall this set is really only worthwhile to die-hards. Casual fans will probably be satisfied with getting their first five albums.

Greetings metal heads, I'm going to take the opportunity in this review to discuss two things. The first being some of Slayer's major accomplishments . The second being a review on the box set itself. The first realization when purchasing this collection is it's amazing feat that Slayer have been around for more than 20 years. What's even more amazing is that they have been releasing uncompromising extreme, head banging, face ripping, and jaw breaking metal in that whole time span. Firstly, one has to look at the time when Slayer debuted. During 1983 thrash metal was being born. Thrash being the combination of the New wave of British heavy metal and punk. Bands such as Slayer, Anthrax, Exodus, Testament, Overkill, Viovod, Megadeth, Nuclear Assault, Hollow's Eve, and yes even the once mighty Metallica were among the many that helped pave the way for the birth of extreme metal. Bands like Slayer, Anthrax, and Metallica were taking their love of Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Motorhead to name a few and increasing the speed and heaviness of their music and combining it with the rawness and intensity of hard punk. Thus thrash was born. Slayer took this a step further by adding lyrical content from influences such as Venom and Mercyful Fate. This was the true anti music of the 80s.

No other band in my opinion achieved this better than Slayer. They might not have been the very first (Metallica beat them by a year). But as far as the raw brutal intensity and heaviness Slayer had them all beat. This is a band that has some of the most loyal fans in all of heavy metal. Metal critics all say if a new band is opening for Slayer and can make it through their set without getting booed, cursed at, and beer thrown at them they must be doing something right. Slayer fans are relentless at letting people know were their loyalty is. Slayer fans are true metal fans. The reason for this in my opinion is that Slayer never disappoints, they have never been what I consider to have sold out, and they have always been the embodiment of heavy metal. In the last 20 years they have only had one member change Dave Lombardo who is now back with the band. This is also amazing considering how many bands that are around for just half as long as Slayer have had numerous line up changes. Slayer are also one of the most un PC bands of their time and still are to this day. They have never won a Grammy, they have not sold millions upon millions of records, and they are not considered one of the greats in music. But inside the metal world they have done far beyond these feats in the hearts and fists of metal fans. Here is a band that has sold 5 million records world wide without any radio play (at least in the U.S.), heavy advertisement and publicity. They just work on word of mouth alone, gut wrenching live shows, and with the help of a few metal magazines and headbanger's ball. And Slayer has done this for more than 20 years!

I am hearing Slayer's influence more and more lately especially in newer metal bands. In fact Slayer is probably one of the most extreme bands one could listen to until the birth of Death and Black metal, Which anyone can see that Slayer are a massive influence to both of those metal genres. All one has to do is look at Slayer tribute record and see the band listings. The release of this set is to reflect on the first 20 years Slayer has brought to the world of metal. The next question being is how is this set?
First, lets break it down this set contains 4 discs. The first disc contains what could be considered Slayer's greatest hits from 1986 to 1991. The second disc contains the best of Slayer from 94 to 2001 plus some hard to find tracks. The third contains unreleased demos and live tracks never heard before from Slayer's whole career till 2003. Finally the fourth disc is a DVD, which contains rare live performances from the band's whole career. Everything included in the set I enjoy. The first disc represents the golden age of Slayer. It is basically what I would consider the best of the albums "Reign Blood", "South of Heaven", and Seasons in the Abyss", plus a few tracks from their live album. The second presents the best from Slayer from the 90s and into the 21st century. The third cd and the DVD are not of the best sound quality. But from a collector's point of view and a huge Slayer fan they are nice to have.

One of the biggest grips with this set is that it contains extremely little from Slayer's metal blade years. There are three tracks from the bands first two albums, but they are live and are actually from the Slayer's live album "A Decade of Aggression". I think this set would have been perfect if a 4th cd were added and it contained songs from "Show no Mercy", "Haunting the Chapel" and "Hell Awaits". But who knows maybe there are copyright laws and the record company Def American could not release any of Slayer's material that is on Metal Blade. My second critique of this set is the price. I hunted trying to find this set under 50 dollars and I just couldn't find it for less than $49.99. In fact most stores were selling it for $55 dollars or more. I find this a bit steep when I have bought box sets with 5 or more discs for $50 dollars or even a little less. Amazingly enough this is the sole reason I held off so long in purchasing this set. Granted it's worth it if one is huge Slayer fanatic, but if someone is just a causal fan I would not suggest this box. The booklet that comes with the set is a fantastic little read. It is full of Slayer facts that I did not know and it does a perfect job on summing up the band and what it means to be a true Slayer fan.

On a sad note Slayer may be calling quits in the near future. After releasing their latest album "Christ Illusion" Kerry King has stated in interviews that they only have one more album due to Def American and after their contract is up Slayer may retire. Plus Kerry states that playing their music with the same intensity just gets harder as they get older. Basically Slayer does not want to become a shadow of their former selves and they want go out on top. Which I can respect but it's still disappointing to hear. At any rate Slayer are still here and they are doing what they do best, ripping our faces off with some of the best metal out there.

Stay Slaytanic forever!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, that's right. Half of this a Slayer fan should already have. (I know everyone has said that) Even though Slayer technically doesn't have any "greatest hits" we have half of the reign in blood, south of heaven, seasons in the abyss and divine intervention records. As well as 3 songs from all their other records. That's the first disc and a half. Haha! All these years and we are supposed to have a BOX SET, not a GREATEST HITS. I don't want a bunch of Slayer songs pulled from albums I already have in addition to the stuff that I want (and is supposed to be) in a box set. I'm sure a bunch of fans agree with me. This greatest hits portion only takes up space and aides in jacking up the price. The b-sides found at the end of disc 2 are good though, but are missing quite a few songs. And as for disc 3, the only ones that I really find interesting are Ice Titan, the rehearsals for Antichrist and Fight till death and Jeff Hannemans home recordings (even though there are more of them than what is present here) And the rough mix for Piece by Piece. I'm not sure why No Remorse (I Wanna Die) isn't on the end of disc 2 since it was on the spawn soundtrack. Everything else is just live versions that we all know and love but nothing much here is essential. I don't actually have this thing at all so I can't comment on the DVD. How did I get these songs? I'll explain that at the end. In all honesty, we Slayer fans were promised so much more than this. First it was the packaging to go (a cardboard box?) And then there is the cr@ppy little backstage "replica" and a Slayer poster that isn't that great. There was also supposed to be some songs from reign in blood and so forth that were redone. Where are those? And then there was the supposed a bunch of songs from the undisputed attitude recording sessions. None are to be found. Except the B-side Memories of Tomorrow (its 54 seconds long) that appears on imports.
The 5th disc, a live show in Anaheim presenting the return of Dave Lombardo behind the drums, is pretty good, but it isn't worth an additional [$$], it isn't the complete concert and Tom sounds kind of tired throughout the show. People complain that there are no songs prior to Show no Mercy, that's because those records are on Metal Blade and they can't get the rights for them. (or something, I don't know all the details) So the lack of songs from that era is understandable, but not necessarily excusable.

What else is missing? Well here's a list.
Remember Ice Titan? Well there are also more songs from the same concert (Which by the way, I have the footage from, thanks to the folks at eBay!)
1. Simple Aggression
2. Night Rider (Dave does a 1:02 drums solo, now wouldn't the fans want to hear that?)
3. Assassin
4. Blitzkrieg (The Final Command)

And then there is more. (some is from Metal blade records though)
5. War Ensemble (Hellraiser Remix), 6. Hell Awaits (Demo), 7. Necrophiliac (Demo), 8. Sick Boy (GBH cover from undisputed attitude import), 9. Seasons in the Abyss (Experimental version with the flute), 10. Hand of Doom (From Nativity in Black 2), 11. The original version of Here Comes the Pain (found on a WCW record, contains different effects), 12. Their cover of Born to Be Wild (Which is really good too), 13. A Live version of Angel of Death found on the Ozzfest 96 CD, 14. Crionics (Extended version/Guitar intro),15. Tormentor (Alternative Ending),16. Evil Has no Boundaries (Extended Version with Jeff/Kerry on backup vocals), 17. Cover of the Gumby Theme Song (?), 18. Warlocks Revenge Rehearsal, 19. The High Priestess. 20. The redone version of Chemical Warfare that only appears on some Vinyl copies of Live Undead. There were also supposed to be versions of The Antichrist, Hardening of the Arteries, and Haunting the Chapel (maybe more) re-recorded with Paul Bostoph. This was announced a LONG time ago. Now where are those? 21. Skeletons of Society (Live) and 22. At dawn they Sleep (Live) off the Import of Live: Decade of Aggression. There are also none of their Music Videos on the DVD (I Know this).

It's sad really. Most of what was promised to the fans is completely absent here. There is no need for a Greatest Hits/Best Of from Slayer. I got these off iTunes. There could have been so much more given for so less of a price.