Customer Reviews

Spider-Man: Venom vs. Carnage

5 star:		(8)
4 star:		(3)
3 star:		(6)
2 star:		(1)
1 star:		(1)

 

 

If there is one thing that Marvel Comics is fantastic at doing, it is completely retconning their characters and disregarding anything that happened more than 5 years prior to the comic book they are writing in the here and now. But they aren't fantastic at just that one thing...there's one more thing they excel at more than any other publisher, and that's their scientifically improbable time paradoxes and universe-bending alternate realities. So that begs us to ask the question: Which one of Marvel's seemingly infinite universes does this comic take place in?

We must ask this question, because Venom vs. Carnage is an entry into Marvel's vault that shatters established continuity with each and every page.

To put it in simplest terms, Venom vs. Carnage is basically a rehash of the original 3-part Carnage debut back in 1993. The only difference is that this time, instead of Venom birthing Carnage, the latter is about to birth his own progeny. Enter Toxin; Carnage's offspring and subsequent new nemesis. Not particularly feeling paternal toward Toxin, Carnage plans to kill him off, but Venom steps in to protect Toxin in the hopes that his "grandson" can be a new partner and help him take down Carnage once and for all. Throw in Spider-man and the Black Cat to tie it into...well, I'm not sure what Spider-man universe it ties into, but it may be the "Amazing" universe, or rather the standard Marvel universe. The non-action elements are focused on the character of Patrick Mulligan, NYC police officer and soon-to-be host for newborn Toxin. However, with a disposition towards murder and mayhem, can Toxin be controlled by the law and order-minded police officer?

It's not a bad book...the art is fantastic, and I've always loved Venom and Carnage. It's major shortcoming is the fact that it simply makes no sense in the Marvel continuity...but then what does these days? Perhaps the most ridiculous part is that Black Cat has absolutely no clue what Venom and Carnage are...she's absolutely bewildered by these "weird monsters" and their similarity to Spider-man's abilities. Really? The first time she met Venom, Black Cat had her head shoved through a wall, and subsequently was almost killed by Venom at least 3 times after that. And let's not forget that whole Maximum Carnage affair...you know, when Carnage teamed up with like-minded nutjobs, and Spider-man, Black Cat and Venom teamed up to stop them? Yeah, poor Cat seems to have a bout of Marvelitis...complete amnesia to events that happened more than 5 years ago.

Other things that stand out is that Venom and Carnage are still represented by Brock and Cassidy. I beleive at the time when this was written, it had already been established that Venom and Brock were no longer joined, and Carnage was already dead courtesy of the Sentry. Spider-man is also written very basically, and there seems to be an attraction between Spider-man and Black Cat. Again, which universe is this? After reading this, I can honestly say with confidence that I don't think the writer even has any idea that Spider-man's secret identity is Peter Parker.

In the end, it simply boils down to an origin tale for Toxin, who would later get a limited series and never be heard from again. He made a non-speaking background cameo as part of the "50 State Initiative" resulting from Civil War, but as with quite a few characters, that was likely a non-canon cameo.

In recent years, it seems that it has become standard fare for Venom and Carnage to be absolutely hated by the Marvel fanbase...something I attribute mainly to elitist snobbery. These were two characters hatched back in Spider-man's heyday...the 80's and 90's. Fact is, these two characters were always landslide sales for Marvel anytime they were featured. While I agree that the Venom character has been ruined in the years leading up to now, and Carnage was really just an excuse for a gorefest every now and then, that doesn't erase the fact that they were beloved characters then, and there's no reason why they shouldn't be beloved now. So, unless you're just jumping on the ol' bandwagon, quit being such a snob and try to remember back to the days that you adored these characters. And if you're too young even have been alive when they came out, then you missed a great time in Marvel history.

Overall, check it out if you like the characters. It's essentially one long continuity error and doesn't seem to fit in with any established Spider-man title, but if you want to have a little fun with V & C, there's no reason why you shouldn't give it a whirl. Just don't try to reason the errors.

I honestly would have to say that "Venom v. Carnage" would not be a title that would instantly draw me to a comic book. I am reminded of the many ill fated crossover comics of the 1990s that languish in quarter bins everywhere. And never in a million years would I think that a Venom v. Carnage miniseries would be something that I would actually own a trade paperback of, nonetheless recommend to others.

But I was wrong on all counts. Thankfully. I picked the book up because I was going on a Peter Milligan buying spree before he took over X-Men and probably would not have even touched it had his name not been on it.

I am giving the title four stars overall. I give the story four and a half and the artwork three and a half. The artwork itself seems to be very uneven, amateurish as often as it is amazing. The characters are occasionally difficult to tell apart at first glance. Clayton Crain seems to have been hired to draw the book based on what he can do with the fights between the symbiotes, not anything else in the story. Though he does seem to show a lot of promise as a comic book artist and could very well be doing amazing things in a few years. I still think the series could have had five stars with the same story and a differnet artist.

Peter Milligan's story tells of a police officer who bonds with the symbiotic spawn of Carnage. The police officer is about to become a father for the first time. And there are a lot of fights between Toxin (the new spawn), Venom and Carnage. And Spider Man shows up. It's jolly good fun.

It was definately an interesting book but it had some major flaws. As a stand alone book it is worth reading but the art varies from good to unbearable pretty quick.

This is seen with how huge venom appears which just becomes rediculous. Another problem concerns continuity. What I refer to is The Black Cat not recognizing either venom or Carnage. Anyone who has followed spiderman comics knows that the black cat helped spiderman in the crossover series Maximum Carnage which dealt with both carnage and venom. For her not to know these two is very unlikely.

That is the one thing that really bothered me because it made me feel that the author didn't do research on the characters at all but instead decided to ignore previous histories that these characters had. The whole deal with the birth seemed a bit far-fethced as well. When venom created carnage it was a spur of the moment event that didn't show him to bin in any pain. But carnage acts as if it is a painful experience. That might be nit picking but it seems like it is a bit misjointed when looked at if you remember carnage's origin.

other than these major flaws the story was entertaining and one does want to continue to read the book to find out what happens.

Spider-Man: Venom vs Carnage looks fantastic. Venom and Carnage must be a thrill (and a pain) to draw, and they've never looked scarier than they do in this paperback. When I first opened the book, I wasn't sure if I was going to like the style, but it grows on you pretty immediately, and these are the perfect characters for the style. Spider-Man himself looked, well, ok, but the symbiotes looked amazingly cool, just monstrously terrifying, and that in itself is worth a browse.

However, the writing does not live up to this review at all. Pat Mulligan, AKA Toxin, the new host, is written reacting the way I think most normal people would react in such a horrifying position, and I give Milligan kudos for that. Unfortunately, it seems that Milligan wrote this without first checking older issues of Spider-Man, because there's all sorts of things that are out-of-continuity. First of all, the Black Cat doesn't recognize Venom or Carnage, despite the fact that they've met numerous times, most famously during Maxmimum Carnage. Second, Spider-Man's spider-sense, which is supposed to warn him of immediate personal danger, and cannot sense the symbiotes, somehow detects the symbiotes fighting each other from across town. While Venom warns Carnage that giving "birth" will be an exhausting and painful process, you have to wonder why Venom didn't seem to be aware that he had birthed the "seed" that eventually became Carnage.

At any rate, it's a fun little read, but if you're really familiar with the history of the various characters, you may get hung up on the various inconsistencies throughout.

If you were reading comics during the 90's, chances are you remember the countless mini-series' starring favorite Spider-Man villain Venom. There were quite a bit, and I can't recall a single one that was really anything special. After a long break, Marvel cranked out this mini-series, which gave me a sure fired groan, but I was surprised at how good Venom VS Carnage ends up being. The murderous Carnage is about to have an offspring, much like Eddie Brock, AKA Venom, had years ago that helped spawn him. Knowing this, Venom attempts to do some good and not let this new symbiote end up a murderous psychopath. However, soon enough the offspring finds it's way to a cop, and Toxin is born. What develops next is both surprising and action packed, as Venom and Carnage both play a major hand in deciding the fate of their descendant. Peter Milligan, who has written a handful of excellent and underrated titles like X-Statix and Human Target, writes the story, which is better than one would give it credit for. The art by Clayton Crain (Ghost Rider: Road to Damnation) is nice eye candy as well; providing great renderings of bloody symbiote violence. All in all, despite your memories of Venom in the 90's, this TPB is worth checking out, and with Spider-Man 3 on the horizon, it might be a good time to get yourself a good dose of Venom.

The title of this novel is a little misleading. However the story itself is a great one. In this story we find out that Carnage is about to have an offspring much like Venom did long time ago. Carnage wanting nothing to do with this wants to kill it before it is born and finds a host. Venom normally wouldn't care but it is the 1,000 generation and he must teach it the ways of the symbiote. Eventually the symbiote finds a host in a New York police officer and becomes Toxin. When Venom realizes that Toxin is too powerful, and actually defending the innocent he teams with Carnage to stop Toxin.

This novel is a great short read as well as beutifully drawn. It brings some more depth to the already increadible characters of Venom and Carnage and spawns an intersting question in terms of the symbiote. When Spiderman found out the origional Symbiote (later to be known as Venom) tried to bond with him he rid himself of it in fear that he would lose himself. When Venom bonded to Eddie Brock, who hated Peter PArker, the two became Evil in a way and hated Spiderman, Carnage bonded to a serial killer and became even more Evil. But with Toxin bonding to a Police Officer, will he become a force of good? Stay tuned in 2005 when the miniseries hits (hopefully).

SPOILERS!!!!

I had high hopes for this one. I love Carnage and Venom and was excited about seeing the new symbiote. However, this just failed to deliver what I wanted: an epic birthing coupled with clever lines and an awesome battle of the symbiotes!
Writer:

I thought the writing was alright but could of been done a lot better. The plot itself was quite intriguing and I liked how Toxin was born. The idea of Spiderman finally having a permanent symbiote friend is also a cool idea. The actual dialogue and lines themselves we're below par. There were a lot of cheesy and frankly stupid lines. Milligan definitely understands the psyche and thinking of the characters but doesn't really represent them well. Example. When Venom and Carnage are talking about the arrival of Toxin they take on roles of mom and dad; Carnage would definitely be the mom. However, the delivery of the jokes and dialogue as well as the dialogue itself sucked. Even Spiderman, king of clever lines, falls short. However, I thought Mulligan (Toxin's human host) did a good job of describing his life and dealing with the monster within. Peter Milligan choosing the name of the Toxin's host as Pat Mulligan was kind of full of himself too I thought.




Artwork: Clayton Craig

He needs some serious lessons in proportions and anatomy. Venom has never been exactly a perfect replica of the average built human and does have a smaller head than the rest of his body but Craig made this almost satirical. He also overlaps a lot of the eyes to literally bulge out of the symbiotes' heads like early Looney Toon's cartoons. There are a couple of scenes where Spiderman looks like he has a football in his mouth under his mask which I just can't take seriously. Probably the most annoying thing as far as artwork goes is how over the top it all is. He takes so much time and is over the top yet fails in such basic notions such as keeping things proportional. It's the equivalent of drawing a perfect black and white pencil drawing of the Mona Lisa and then coloring outside the lines. Craig definitely gets better and learned from this mistakes because his Ghost Rider Six-Part ranks among my favorite episodes. However, in this arc he definitely fails.



Toxin:

Toxin's character design did not wow me at all. I thought he was done very shoddy and could of been fleshed out a lot more. I do not know how much of that is to blame on Craig or Mulligan but he just doesn't have that OUMPH! like other villains. His color scheme is also pretty lame, maybe if he would of had black eyes and some kind of design on him it could of helped but he basically looked like a Spiderman stuck between a Carnage transformation. That all aside, his personality is interesting and will definitely grow into something unique I think.

The comic is exactly what I ordered and arrived on time and in perfect condition as stated in the terms and conditions of the sale.

A classic must have for fans of Venom and or Carnage. I'm thinking about getting a hard-back copy to hang on to for a long time.

Excellent highly detailed drawing were my favorite part of this.

The story is good too. Goes into detail about the "son" of Carnage.

This was a good Comic. The art had some real highlights. The dialog wasn't great, a bit simplistic. Okay plot line. I enjoyed the read, just not amazing. If you really like carnage or venom then this has some good artwork for you and nice fight scenes. Spider-man is really barely a cameo.