How do you do this "Love Dare' when your spouse is having an affair? The "Other Woman" exhibhited her behaviour in front of our Daughter and Granddaughter. When confronted became ugly about it. Said "any grownup could see what was happening and I was wasting her time". The affair is still continuing and there is a large emotional component. The work together and she is Manager, he is not but accountable to her. When she exhibited her behaviour in front of me and our family at a gathering at his work she asked "for a hug" and his reply had been "not in front of my wife" and she laughed and was all over him rubbing her body against him, etc.... Any suggestions?
Because even in the Bible, divorce is acceptable when someone is cheating.
If, on the other hand, he loves you and he's willing to stop the affair and try to put y'all's marriage back together...well, it's a hard decision. It's up to you.
If you're religious, I suppose you could meditate on it and read Bible passages. Marriage counseling would probably be a good idea, too. If you both attend church and feel comfortable with the pastor there, that might be a good place to start.
No one can tell you what to do. Do you want a worldly advice or do you want a godly advice? Do you have a relationship with Christ? You need to sit down with your husband and watch the movie "fireproof". You can order it from Amazon or rent it from redbox for a dollar and watch it together. Go find a Holy Spirit led church and find a counselor. Both of you have to want to make it work. I also suggest, you tell your husband to man up and tell his manager to step off. He also needs to report her or change jobs. He can't be in that environment every day. You can shop in a candy shop if you are on a diet. It is just plain stupid. One thing you need to realize is the Love Dare cannot be done if you don't know Christ. We all need to understand how much Christ loves us before we can begin to love anyone else. I will be praying for you.
JR, don't knock it till you try it. The fireproof movie was directed and produced by a church minister and the fireproof curriculum is used all over churches to counsel married people. No need to sound condescending by calling me hon. I am a man of God and I am genuingly trying to help someone who is in need advice. Stop replying to my msg and give her some advice if you have any. Thank you.
Product Description for Fireproof Curriculum; The resource that is changing marriages across the U.S. Fireproof Your Marriage will challenge you to love better, to love first and to love for a lifetime! Founded on Biblical principles, this six session in-home study is a great way for you and your spouse to build and strengthen your marriage. The Fireproof Your Marriage study integrates video clips from the movie FIREPROOF, along with key Scriptures, thought-provoking questions and devotionals. The Couple's Kit includes a six-session DVD and two Participant's guides. Also makes a great wedding or anniversary gift! Fireproof Your Marriage includes these six sessions: 1.) He Said/She Said: appreciating the God-designed differences between men and women. 2.) He First Loved Us: God's love for you and how it enables you to love others. 3.) Love for a Lifetime: marriage as a lifelong covenant. 4.) Breaking Free: freeing yourself from temptations that can destroy a marriage. 5.) Forgiveness: offering and receiving forgiveness. 6.) A Better Way of Loving: unconditional love. Churches can purchase in bulk at Outreach and save.
Finny, Off the subject of the cheating spouse. I would divorce him if he is still cheating or forgive him if he is ready to be forgiven. Would you recommend this book for a book club? My book club needs a "kick". I think this could help us. Any thoughts?
Dear Ann; I think this is the kind of book that will touch, shake, convict, challenge and change every individual who reads it. It is the kind of book that challenges the reader into immediate action. We mostly let our feelings run our lives but this book is designed to let you lead your heart. Not only would I recommend it Ann, I implore you to get this book and do an update over here about it has changed you :). Happy reading. You will get a lot more a "kick". I promise you that.
Jennifer says: "Suggestion: divorce him. Because even in the Bible, divorce is acceptable when someone is cheating."
The Bible also points out that something being permissible doesn't necessarily make it beneficial. It also makes it clear that God abhors divorce. I'm not saying that "Just Say It" doesn't have every right to leave, just that it's not in the spirit of what "The Love Dare" is all about; I'm assuming that she's looking for advice within the context of this book/movie.
The point of "The Love Dare" is that we recognize our own unworthiness when it comes to love. None of us deserves to be loved, yet Jesus died for us; who, then, are we to deny love to anyone, least of all our spouses?
To use "Fireproof's" imagery, your marriage is currently on fire. Standing quietly by and doing nothing won't stop the flames, but neither will walking away. I agree with Finny that both you and your husband need to get some strong, Godly advice, preferably with an emphasis on true spiritual restoration in your marriage.
A marriage can only work if each spouse is dedicated to giving 100%, regardless of what the other spouse does. That's the message of "The Love Dare": love your spouse, even when you don't feel it and/or they don't "deserve" it. Always remember that none of us "deserves" to be loved, but God loves us anyway.
JQ, I don't understand your logic. The Bible says something is okay, and you agree with it, and then you turn around and say "God abhors divorce." So God abhors some of what his own word says? Where's the logic there? Coming from a family where my mom has been in a divorce (abusive relationship) and my stepfather has been in a divorce (his wife consistently cheated on him and showed absolutely no remorse) I think it's close-minded and a little unfair to say "Oh, you can get a divorce but it won't be beneficial, and by the way, God abhors divorce." Guilt trip much?
Personally, I think anytime that someone depends completely on a book - devotional, fiction, whatever - to solve their problems, trouble lies ahead. What does the book know about their marriage? Absolutely nothing. It's a book. They're people. They're slightly more complex than a book. I think counseling - with actual people - is the way to go.
If you want to save your marriage, then save it. Since you're looking for advice, I assume you want to save it. But please, whatever you do, do not guilt yourself into thinking, "I have to stay with this person no matter what." Marriage is supposed to be a lifetime commitment, ideally, but sometimes things happen. For instance, if your husband or wife starts to abuse you or your children, physically or emotionally, and it's only getting worse, that would be a good time to get out. Cheating on you, showing no remorse, and not being willing to pick up the pieces - that can fall under the category of emotional abuse. Your loved one should not make you feel worthless; your loved one should make you feel loved. Cheating is not the worse thing that can happen, but if things worsen, then you may want to consider if God would want you to put up with such abuse. God loves you. God only wants the best for you. Talking to a counselor or pastor and meditating about God can help you consider what you believe "God's best" truly is.
Marriage is never going to be 100% happy, but please don't fool yourself into thinking that emotional abuse is okay. It is not okay.
Jennifer says: "JQ, I don't understand your logic. The Bible says something is okay, and you agree with it, and then you turn around and say 'God abhors divorce.' So God abhors some of what his own word says? Where's the logic there?"
God hates divorce. I can make you a list of Scripture references if you want, but I assume you're already aware of that fact. As you stated, "marriage is supposed to be a lifetime commitment." That's how God instituted it, and I truly believe that it's His will that no marriage should burn to the ground. The most noble, sacrificial, and Christlike thing to do is to stick it out and help your spouse through it. That's the black-and-white answer, even if it's not the easiest to swallow.
However, God also knows that His children aren't always strong enough to fight for a betrayed marriage bed, which is why He's made an exception for marital unfaithfulness; it's a hard thing to get past, knowing that your spouse has been with someone else. I don't presume to tell you (the questioner) what to do; I'm only relaying what the Bible has to say about it.
Again, don't settle for advice on an online forum. The one thing we all seem to agree on is that you (and preferably your husband) need to seek advice from a flesh-and-blood Christian counselor.
I completely with what JQ wrote up above. Jr Corry, I thank you for editing the word "hon". What the movie shows is how two separate families found healing and restoration by living life Christ's way after failing miserably doing it their own way. Watching fireproof can INSPIRE (TRIGGER) & show a different approach to life and your mate by allowing the words of God to influence your life. To the one lady who seems to think that a book cannot change anyone, let me remind you of something if I may. Whenever you buy any new product, the first thing you find when you open the box is a "user's manual" that explains the intent of the manufacturer and how to make sure you get the best use out of the product. In the same manner, marriage and life were created by God and no one knows how to better do both than God Himself. We just need to be humble enough to say that we need God's help, and He is more than willing and eager to give because He is our beloved Father. All we need to do is let Him win the battles in our lives. The bible says "Come to me all you that are weary and carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" (Matthew 11:28-30). I want to REMIND the lady who asked the first question about what to do another verse. 1 John 4:4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. So the only question that I want to ask you, have you accepted Christ as your savior? I would like to hear from if you are tracking this discussion. I have more verses. 1 Peter 3:8-12 All of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing. For " He who would love life And see good days, Let him refrain his tongue from evil, And his lips from speaking deceit. Let him turn away from evil and do good; Let him SEEK PEACE and PURSUE IT. For the eyes of the LORD are on the righteous, And His ears are open to their prayers; But the face of the LORD is against those who do evil.
God's way is truly different and thank God for that. I don't ever want to deal with life on my way and I don't have to because Christ came so I don't have to. That's the biggest mystery revealed. Most people think forgiveness is weakness, humbleness is weakness but we all know it takes Jesus Christ to really forgive and forget because He forgave the very people who were inflicting pain upon Him the very moment they were inflicting enormous pain upon Him. Don't focus on what your husband has done, focus on what Christ has done for you and you will find PEACE within you that won't make sense to anyone else except those of us who have experienced His peace.
Finny: "Whenever you buy any new product, the first thing you find when you open the box is a "user's manual" that explains the intent of the manufacturer and how to make sure you get the best use out of the product." No. I don't. Not if I know how the product works, anyway. Unless I'm bored; I'll read anything if I'm bored. And sometimes, when you read a manual, it doesn't help. Do you know what you do then? You ask other people for help. PEOPLE. Not books.
I'm not ignoring the rest of your post, by the way, I just don't have any problems with it.
Thank you for explaining your position, it was very helpful. I don't agree about the "black-and-white" answer (although I know you might be right); you basically just told my parents that they did a bad thing by getting out of harmful relationships. In my book, that's the opposite of a Christlike response. Not that you're not Christlike. I'm sure you have the best of intentions. I'm just saying, it looks a bit harsh from my side. I mean, basically I feel like you're telling me that the Bible's like, "Divorce is bad, but adultery is the exception, but for the rest of you who are in potentially abusive relationships, well, you're screwed. Sure, your spouse may beat you...rape your kids...etc...but who cares? Because I HATE DIVORCE." Although, maybe you were specifically writing to the person who's having marital troubles. It's hard to tell. Either way, I agree that you can't settle for online forum advice. As I've said before: people are complicated.
I won't be reading this forum thread anymore, btw, because I think we might be starting to overload the poor lady with too much information. So you don't have to respond to my post or anything.
As for knowing what his will is - well, we're just mortals. Who knows what God's will is? I certainly don't.
Sorry. I've followed this thread as long as I can. God doesn't hate anything and I think you'd be hard pressed to find any reference in the Bible to God "hating".
Any person who finds themselves in the position of questioning their relationship needs to stop and explore their priorities and their values (spiritual and otherwise). They need to work with their partner to the best of their ability to find a way to make the relationship work. If "Fireproof" or "Dare to Love" give them the guidance they need to do that, then that's fantastic. If not explore the Church and any other available resource to find a way to make a GOOD relationship thrive and prosper.
However, I cannot imagine the God I know would ever condone the use of the sacrement of marriage as a reason to be emotionally abused. [NOTE: that's what's happening to 'Just Say It' in her current relationship] Rather, I think God would approve of someone taking the steps needed to make the most of the gift of life for themselves and their family.
B. Roden says: "God doesn't hate anything and I think you'd be hard pressed to find any reference in the Bible to God 'hating'."
Here's one explicit reference which leaves no room for "interpretation:"
"Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth. 'I hate divorce,' says the LORD God of Israel, 'and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,' says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith." (Malachi 2:15,16, NIV)
The New King James Version (NKJV) actually spells out verse 16 as follows: "For the LORD God of Israel says that He hates divorce, for it covers one's garment with violence."
Interestingly enough, here's the very next verse:
"You have wearied the LORD with your words. 'How have we wearied him?' you ask. By saying, 'All who do evil are good in the eyes of the LORD, and he is pleased with them' or 'Where is the God of justice?'" (Malachi 2:17, NIV)
I believe this speaks directly to your statement that you "think God would approve of someone taking the steps needed to make the most of the gift of life for themselves and their family." By saying that God doesn't hate divorce, you're mis-representing God and proclaiming that God is pleased with those who do evil (engage in divorce); your justification for these statements is your gut feeling, your assumption that God's justice must always sync up with your own sense of fairness ("Where is the God of justice?").
While keeping in mind everything that I've said in my previous posts, I'd like to reiterate that the RIGHT thing to do isn't always the EASIEST or the FAIREST thing to do. It certainly wasn't easy OR fair for Christ to sacrifice Himself on the cross for any one of us, but He did it because it was the RIGHT thing to do.
If the woman who's husband is cheating wanted to get a divorce by biblical law she would not be wrong however in most cases divorce should be the last option if a person is cheating or not. But especially if they are cheating because infidelity is one of the exceptions that is a biblical reason for divorce. Try other things such as counseling, read books, study the bible, pray. Sometimes the word of God is silent to what we should do, that's when you seek the Lord even more.
Please note that no healing of a marriage can occur if an affair is in progress. There is no marriage with "three" people in a relationship. Please get yourself some counseling to help figure out your future.
Although JQ has responded already, thought I'd chip in with a suggestion, B. Roden, to pick up the Bible and actually read it for yourself. One would not be hard pressed at all to find scripture that talks about what God hates. One example, directly quoted: Proverbs 6:16-19 (King James version) "16) These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him: 17) A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18) An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19) A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." In addition, God's "take" on divorce is covered in Deuteronomy (24:1-4), Malachi (2:14-15), Matthew (5:31-32, 19:3-12), Mark (10:2), Luke (16:18), to name a few...probably the best example being when Jesus dealt with the Pharisees (Matt 19:3-9). For those who find the Bible "difficult" to read, I would recommend a good life application study Bible, which adds commentary to much of the scripture, and can aid in understanding the verses for anyone truly wanting to learn more about God and His personality.
Maybe God doesn't like divorce, maybe he does, but ABOVE ALL, God loves you and he wants you to be healthy and happy. Being in a marriage where the other person is unfaithful neither makes you healthy nor happy, so something needs to change.
If your husband isn't willing to talk about the affair, try discussing it with a pastor or family counselor. You are worth SO much more than having a husband who doesn't respect you enough to be faithful. If this is a chronic problem, then there is something missing from the relationship that a simple book or a movie will not be able to fix. If you want to stay with him, you BOTH should develop a plan of action that brings the love back into your lives. Don't fool yourself into thinking 40 days will fix everything - this is a process that will take months for you to be able to trust him again, if ever. Reading the book may help, but it isn't the final answer. He has already broken the vows he made to you on your wedding day. If you feel the affair is irreconcilable, you deserve to find a man who will love YOU and care for YOU the way you deserve. God would not want you to stay in an unhealthy marriage. You deserve better, and He understands that.
Can you do this dare if you aren't religious?? It seems like all these posts are about god. I am not religious and my spouse is not either. I mean I saw the movie and I understand at first they were not and then they got all god like but I don't see that happening
Hey Aly B. Why would you want God's principles but not God? With a name like Aly, I am assuming you are female. How would you feel if a man wanted you just for body when you are so much more than just a body? Obviously that wasn't enough for you, because you have a spouse. You wanted your spouse to marry you and make a commitment to you. The same deal with God. Be open to the Love of God and see how transformed you will be.
All great discussion topics, all interesting things to ponder! One thing I'd add is that if this lovely woman wants to do something about her marriage and her husband's behavior, she should read, "The Divorce Remedy" by Michelle Weiner Davis. It's a great book that essentially communicates how to behave so the spouse starts to remember what s/he had and doesn't want to lose...and is a little bit of how to "get caught" by playing hard to get. So many times our behaviors in relationships end up having the opposite result of what we intended, this book is a great resource for that.