Customer Reviews

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords

5 star:		(58)
4 star:		(78)
3 star:		(56)
2 star:		(33)
1 star:		(42)

 

 

Knights of the Old Republic 2 is, in most ways, extraordinarily similar to the original. All the gameplay mechanisms are the same. There are a few new force powers, more feats to acquire, and more items and upgrades. This is not a criticism: the original KOTOR was a great game.

This is not, for one simple reason: it isn't finished. By this, I don't mean that the door is left wide open for a sequel, although it is. I don't even mean that the game is buggy, although it is. The game is literally not finished.

Plot points appear and disappear at random. For example, and without spoiling anything, in the first part of the game, your actions cause a significant problem on one of the other worlds in the game. You get a quest to fix the problem. You find a way to do so. The quest abruptly ends there--there is no way to let anyone know you've solved the problem. Then, at the end game, people complain to you that you never solved this quest. And that's a minor example. Frankly, more of the end game is explained by the brief blurbs on the loading screens than anything that happens in the game itself.

The game is filled with "Huh?" moments as a result. The end game, in particular, expects you to know things that are never revealed anywhere because those aspects were cut. Side plots are built up and suddenly dropped. One of the end-game cutscenes suggests a critical decision is about to be made, then is completely ignored.

Then there's the ending itself. Sheer garbage. There's no payoff for wading through the disjointed story. There's nothing but a brief little dialog that goes nowhere.

What's particularly sad is that, what story is there is very interesting. This game was designed by the designer for Planescape: Torment, one of the great RPGs. It has a similar feel, full of regret and melancholy, and the weight of decisions made in the past. I'm quite sure a complete story was developed. Some genius decided to start cutting so the game could get out the door sooner. It's a sad waste of potential, and leaves a bitter taste.

The first KOTOR was, in my opinion, one of the greatest games ever. Though it had its flaws, they were few and far between. Obsidian and everyone involved with putting out KOTOR 2: TSL deserves an enthusiastic round of applause for their efforts to make a follow-up to such a stellar game. They managed to come up with a sequel that, while plauged with bugs and other issues, is nonetheless relatively enjoyable.

First, the good stuff:

TSL is fun to play--most of the time--and delivers much the same kind of experience as the first KOTOR (after all, what can compare to barbequing hordes of Sith with Force Storm whilst laughing maniaclly to yourself?). KOTOR 1 was good, and TSL tries to continue in the same tradition. Though there are plenty of problems with the game (see below), it is worth the time, to play through a few times. Many of the new features, like the streamlined weapon-change function, or the "Empty" label for looted containers, or the fact that new datapads are automatically opened to be read, are small but very helpful add-ons. The new prestige classes add a lot to the experience, giving much additional replay value. The companion influence system is interesting, if a bit stifling at times. Aside from the gameplay, I feel compelled to praise the new Jedi/Sith robes in the game: unlike KOTOR 1, TSL boasts about four different, full-length types of robe, with probably two dozen different color schemes/stats/features--it is most gratifying to walk around in a flowing robe, something very Star Wars-ish that the first game just didn't convey despite the brilliance of everything else. The music is quite good, as is the feature on the main menu that enables you to listen to the different songs you've unlocked in the game.

Now the not so good . . .

The one word that comes to mind when playing TSL is "Potential." This game had *enormous* potential to be utterly amazing, but unfortunately . . . it's not. I've seen other reviewers griping about Lucasarts pushing Obsidian too hard, about the game not being completely finished when released, etc. I'm not going to get involved in all that, but there are a great many things that disappoint in TSL, and it looks like TSL was indeed *not* entirely done when released (Pardon me while I sigh miserably over the lost content).

The incomplete state of the game is the biggest issue for me. This means that there are vexing holes in the story--especially near the end, where, as I think someone else pointed out, the little tidbits of info on the load/save screens are more informative as to what's going on than the game itself. The first KOTOR really delivered a strong, continuous main plot that kept you riveted till the very end; TSL pales in comparison. The story is *there*, you can sense it, but it was not fully brought out and clearly delineated--again, wonderful potential, but it falls flat. The end of the game is nice, to be sure, but KOTOR 1's was, simply put, totally cool, and made your adventure worth playing. In TSL, well, it's more than a little disappointing.

The NPCs you find seem sadly, madeningly dull compared to the first KOTOR. They don't have nearly as satisfying backstories or personalites--with the notable exception of Kreia; she is in the same league as KOTOR 1's characters. Occasionally, you'll get a juicy emotional cutscene or something where you actually connect with the others in your party, but those are infrequent. Also, the influence system makes its doubly hard to find out any stories that the NPCs actually have. (After hearing Atton make a woefully not-funny comment for the hundreth time, you'll start getting nostalgic for Jolee or HK-47 and their side-splitting remarks.)

The sidequests involve a lot of tedious running back and forth, and many quests simply cannot be completed, or end with irritating abruptness, a symptom of the game's unfinished state.

Many of the locations you visit in TSL are disappointingly flat. Unlike the unique and vibrant locales in the KOTOR 1, TSL's areas seem to be studies in how many shades of brown, gray, and black can be used (ah, for Manaan, or the Rakatan world).

There are other complaints, too: countless bugs, typos in the dialogue subtitles, items mysteriously vanishing from inventories, plot-critical quests failing to trigger, etc.--while I've been fortunate enough to avoid the bulk of these, I've heard many others complaining bitterly about them.

All in all, TSL is fun, but is lacking on many levels. If you liked the first KOTOR, I'd recommend getting TSL, but you'd be better off waiting for the price to drop.

Meanwhile, I think I feel inspired to go replay the first KOTOR, and hope that the rumored KOTOR 3 will be polish the many rough spots in KOTOR 2 . . .

Oh, man, here we go with the name calling already. Re reviews below: Ray is not an "idiot" L.L., he just expected his game to run since Kotor I ran okay on his system, and the engine is basically the same. I've had the opportunity to play Kotor II on the Xbox (friend's copy and console), and now I've just finished the PC version (hoping Obsidian/Lucas had learned something in the last two months). No such luck. The game is inexcusably buggy (even after all the feedback from the Xbox version players). This is a serious and distracting problem throughout the game (and Lucas/Obsidian tech support is not good) -- beware!

To be fair, I should note that Kotor II is a darker, more complex, more philosophical story than Kotor I. The GAMEPLAY is somewhat better with a whole new system to build a great Jedi character (Dark or Light) and to handle combat more effectively (new Dark/Light Force powers are available along with new moves, feats and Jedi or Sith "prestige classes"). But the STORY, as realized, is often tedious, confusing and even puzzling (read boring) -- it often simply doesn't make sense (Like why am I doing this?). Quests end for no apparent reason without resolution or explanation. The ending sequences are especially bad. Storylines begin involving NPC's in your party who you care about, but you have no idea how they're resolved. The ending just creeps up, and then it's suddently game over (credits roll). It's almost as if they didn't get a chance to finish the last 25% of the game completely (time constraints?). This looks like a rush job for the Christmas 2004 (Xbox) shopping season which is really a shame. With a little more development time, testing and polish, this game could have really been great. I guess it's all about money.

The new characters/party members are okay, but not quite as interesting as Kotor 1. You do have a "bond" with one of the NPC's, but she's not a pretty young Jedi -- just the opposite in fact. For those of you who enjoyed the "romance" and other sidequests involving party members in Kotor 1, there will be major disappointment. If you liked the random dialog (sometimes very funny) between certain NPC's in the first Kotor, forget it. Most of the dialog in Kotor 2 seems to be pretty much scripted. The new "influence" system is a nice touch if you like to talk a lot (and know how to say the right things). If you handle things exactly right, you can even make apprentices (Jedi or Sith) out of certain party members.

In a couple places the game forces you to split up your party and use party members you don't like, don't want and didn't equip (this really bothered me). If you like combat, you can build a real "tank" type Jedi and mow down scores of "enemies" (this can get a little old after a while). I often felt my character was actually too powerful -- even with the game setting on "difficult". Remember, this time your character starts the game as a Jedi exile with some Force powers (but no light saber -- you must acquire the components and construct it). The weapons balance (melee vs. ranged) is MUCH improved as is the ability to switch weapon types during combat.

So, as I said in my Xbox review, this is a half great game. The gameplay is great, but the story/quests/characters are not so great. There's no way this game deserves 5 stars (except to real Star Wars fans who admit the game has problems but still give it 5 stars. Hmmm). For more objective people, I'd give it 3-1/2 stars if I could. It's a pretty good game. Perhaps upcoming patches will fix the bugs; perhaps not. I loved Kotor I but felt kind of let down by this one. Consider carefully before you buy.

"So many bugs, too epic a story, too little time," is what Obsidian must have been saying as the shelf date of it's first collaboration with Lucas Arts was drawing to a close.

The game play was to be flawless; the story was to be epic, more so than the first installment in the series had been. But strapped for time and with Lucas Arts pushing for the game to be on shelves by Christmas, Obsidian was forced to put out a glaringly obvious UNFINISHED GAME.

Many of us, loyal KOTOR series fans, rushed out to buy the game. But as we approached the 45-hour mark, the horrible realization set in that this was, indeed, a rushed game. We fought through the bugs, the moderate load times, the game freezes harder than we fought through any programmed foe and as we approached the end of the game, the last battle, the cold fact was, that many of the plot lines were left dangling, whole subplots discarded; subplots that you spent at least 6 hours of the game attempting to complete! We pressed on anyway, fought the final battle, only to have a promising ending fall completely flat, left with more questions than answers.

Now, I hear you asking now, cliffhangers? No, not cliffhangers, glaringly obvious plot holes, sucking any satisfaction out of your being that you might have had, in completing a 45-hour long game.

The unrealistic time constraint imposed on Obsidian by Lucas Arts, to rush the game out before Christmas was obscenely detrimental to both the game's play and storyline. Lucas Arts seems to have made the choice long ago that profits come before quality and customer satisfaction, a disturbing trend in the gaming industry today; one that must be stopped. We need to show Lucas Arts that bullying smaller production companies into unrealistic time expectancies is unacceptable.

That games that win awards by default and not merit do not win over consumers!

Over the past few months since the games release, PC gamers have found strings of code, and sound clips from what was to be the games original ending, it was to be of EPIC proportions and lead designers of the game have acknowledged the time constraints as a major reason for the cutting of that material. Chris Avellone, lead designer, has even mentioned asking LA for permission to do a content patch, but has yet to hear back.

DO NOT PURCHASE AN UNFINISHED GAME. DEMAND A COMPLETE ONE.

http://www.petitiononline.com/kotor2

~Emily C. Lang

This game is horrible. You will spend half of your time playing it restarting the game and trying to figure out what is wrong with your copy of the game. Then you start to read the reviews by the people who bought the game and played the game for any amount of time to find out that it is the game and not your copy. There has been promise of a patch to fix the problem from the development team since the end of february. Although the game is a lot of fun I would definately wait until the problems have been fixed with the patches.

LucasArts has shot themselves in the foot. I'm afraid (for all of us) that it's too late to hope for them to truly correct their errors. This long delay for the patch is an indicator that the company is already cutting their losses and moving on. The price of the game is already falling rapidly at retailers.

To see just how worthless the disks are to those of us who pre-bought the game or bought it in the first week: an auction just closed on a popular auction site (no names) at just above thirty percent what I paid on pre-order. The market is determining the real value of the game, as the word spreads about how weak this offering is.

I say we stick it to LA this way: all of us who hate this half-*craft* piece of *work* should simply put them up for sale on *popular auction selling sites*. Flood the market. They're already selling for way below half of the original price. If we all put ours up for sale, the price would drop below twenty percent of original price...One hundred percent of which LucasArts will never see.

I was hoping for them to come through and correct their mistakes. I was hoping they would realize how sales were going to be hurt because of the overwhelming negative response to their slop.

But now I see the truth: they tricked a bunch of us into buying early, and now they are pretty much just going to abandon it. Mark my words: the patch will be nothing more than a "token patch" They view us as guinea pigs in a failed experiment.

... who's next in line?

Before I start pointing out the pros and cons of this game, I'd just like to applaud Obsidian for what they did. Taking over the development from BioWare was no easy task, especially considering the original KOTOR won 48 Game of the Year awards. I think they did a very good job with this game. I will also keep this review spoiler free for those of you who have not played through the game yet.

Now the difficult part of reviewing this game. In a lot of ways, this game surpasses the original. The combat system is improved by the addition of new feats, force powers, and weapons. I really enjoyed the new prestige classes as they really tailor to what kind of player you are. If you wish to create a "tank" character who simply uses his lightsaber to mow down opponents, then you can do so. If you prefer to use Force powers more, you can also follow that path. This gives you a lot of freedom to structure the game to how you'd like to play it. I also feel the dialogue in the game is a lot better than the original. Some of the characters (one in particular) are truly brilliant.

The new influence system was hit and miss for me. There are only about 2 or 3 people who are actually worth influencing, and even with these people, you can beat the game without influencing them at all. Another niggle was that to gain influence, you have to say certain things to certain people. This means that you only have very few conversation options available if you want to gain influence. If you're curious about someone's past, you may not be able to ask them about it because you'd lose influence with them. This was very irritating to say the least.

The storyline itself was iffy. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, but at times I just found myself completely confused. A lot of the time you have no idea what's happening, why you're doing something, or why this quest is important. I suspect Obsidian wanted the story to be darker and more philosophical, but I believe even they got mixed up somewhere along the line. It does get cleaner by the end of the game, so that's at least something.

The ending of the game leaves a lot to be desired. Normally, I get enough satisfaction from the experience so that and ending is just the cherry on top of a cake. All I ask is that questions are answered and there is some conclusion. You don't get either of these with this game. There are two reasons for this. One: Lucasarts rushed Obsidian to get this game out for Holiday season, which meant that Obsidian only had ONE year to make the game. In software development, this is an incredibly short time to make a game (most games take about 3 years to complete) Two: Obsidian purposely left the ending that way in order to set up the third game, which I have no doubt will be made. This is done by basically every company though, so not much to say there.

Also, this game is very buggy. Check out some KOTOR forums to see what I mean! Although I got very lucky as to not experience most of the bugs others have mentioned, my game would still crash periodically. It took me about 25 hours to complete this game, and it crashed probably around 20 times, and once in the middle of a boss battle! As annoying as these were, there are far worse ones. I encountered one where a quest does not trigger, even though it should. I won't say the exact details, but I was supposed to talk to a person in order to trigger an event. Yet when I talked to them, nothing happened. No event was triggered, and I couldn't get the quest, no matter what. Luckily for me, it was a bonus mission, so it did not affect my game adversely. At least there are patches for the PC version; the Xbox one is apparently even worse! My suggestion: Save OFTEN and make multiple save slots. You never know when something might happen (I ended up with 23 save slots by the end...what can I say, I'm paranoid!)

So with all this negative criticism, why give the game 4 stars? Because I still had a lot of fun playing it. The combat was extremely rewarding, and building my character into a powerhouse was awesome. As I said before, I enjoy the journey, not the endgame, and if I could go back in time I would have definitely played through this game again.

My final advice: If you haven't played the original, make absolutely sure that you do before playing this one!!! I cannot stress that enough. Not only is it a better game, but there are plot points in this game which will ruin the surprise twist of the first game, which would be a real shame, because it was an incredible twist. To those of you who played the original and enjoyed it, I'd say this game is worth playing through. There's a lot of fun to be had with this one.

This game is clearly a sequel. But as a sequel to a truly amazing game, I expected it to be good. And it was, briefly.

The gameplay is basically the same as the original KotOR, with a few new additions. There were new forcepowers, new feats, and the fancy new influence system. Depending on your actions, party members will be more or less influenced by you, and can become evil, or good. Also, as the 'last of the Jedi' through your actions, you can train party members to become Jedi as well.

The huge disappointment is in the plot. It starts out alright, but just cuts off. It seems as if they didn't finish the game in time, and just to get it onto the shelves, they half-assed the very end of the game. It is a great letdown to what could have been a great game.

i loved the first knights of the old republic, and it was the best game of 2003. unfortunately so far this one is pretty boring. but the biggest problem: bugs. the game is so buggy at times it is almost not even worth playing. i crashed to desktop a couple of times. for some reason 'walls' will just appear out of nowhere; they are just graphics glitches and you can run through them but ruin the look of the game. the worst bug is a serious graphics glitch where things (like a plane surface, or 'ropes') just come out of your head. yep that's right out of your head; like the 'walls' they are graphics glitches but it's a big pain when you can't see anything (in combat or otherwise) because some giant wall graphic is coming at a 45 degree angle out of your head obscuring half the screen. buyer beware: it's better to wait a couple of months for this game to be completed, at current time the developers must have rushed it out because it is in horrible shape. most games' betas aren't this buggy.

The Republic is on the brink of collapse. Jedi and Sith no longer are seperate in the eyes of the galaxy. You are bonded to a mentor and sense she has an agenda but exactly what that agenda is, you cannot clearly see. Finally, you discover you are prey in the sights of bounty hunters and a new type of Sith.

Then the game freezes and you reload with a whispered promise to yourself to save more often.

Slowly the story unfolds before you. Slowly because if you don't pick exactly the right responses you do not gain influence with one of the many NPCs that will join your group. And without enough influence, you could miss bits of the interactions and information that moves the plot along. Then the game freezes and you reload whispering a word of thanks that you remembered to save often.

Your journey will take you to several planets, all very nicely rendered. Some of the background scenery I found almost breathtaking. During your trek through the galaxy you will find areas that are unaccessable. Not because of rockslides or blaster damage, but because they were cut so the game could be shipped for the Christmas Shopping Season.

You will experience a sense of power as you slice and dice through weak opponents with your overpowered Jedi/Sith character.Game balance was not a concern of the publisher because the game had to be shipped for the holiday buying season and really, what customer cares about game balance anyway?

However, this sense of invulnerability will quickly give way to the frustrations borne of plot inconsistencies, seemingly random dialog, aliens that repeat the same sounds, well, repeatedly, and subquests that can never be completed. Then the game freezes and you reload while wondering why you expected this game to be as good as Knights of the Old Republic 1.

The game really falls apart when your character reaches the final planet. It would take volumes to describe the ridiculous sequences and half hearted attempt to finish what should have been an epic journey perhaps not unlike the climax of Baldur's Gate II.

In many ways this game is an insult to the gamers that laid out the money with the expectations that KotOR2 would live up and maybe even surpass KotOR1. Sadly, I cannot even consider this game worth the title KotOR1.5. The overall two star rating reflects the bugs, plot holes, dropped areas that are still mentioned in the game, transistion freezes, meaningless exchanges between NPCs, overly difficult influnces system (at times), and a questing system that could not have been Quality Tested before KotOR2 was rushed out the door.

In fairness, there are some wonderful sequences in the game and it is, for the most part, playable as is. However the good points of the game are seriously marred by the bad. LucasArts owes each person that bought KotOR2 an apology.