Customer Reviews

Start with NO...The Negotiating Tools that the Pros Don't Want You to Know

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Jim Camp is new to me but will most likely become quite a bright albeit controversial figure in management circles. Mr. Camp's new offering, START WITH NO, specifically debunks the methodology we were all taught in Negotiation 101...achieve "win-win" at all costs. Mr. Camp says NO, with a capital N, to this weak, antiquated negotiating objective.

Mr. Camp introduces his theory, "...I believe win-win is hopelessly misguided as a basis for good negotiating, in business or in your personal life or anywhere else." So begins his treatise encapsulated in contrarian thinking toward negotiations of any type. Win-win, posits Mr. Camp, is an invitation to lose. While conventional tutelage is grounded in give-and-take compromise, Mr. Camp's negotiating foundation begins with giving or taking a No. Empowering an opponent to say No is power, according to Camp.

Mr. Camp quotes the ever-popular negotiating gem, GETTING TO YES, and its basic definition of a "wise agreement." A wise agreement meets the legitimate interests of each side to the extent possible, resolves conflicting interests fairly, is durable, and takes community interests into account. Camp's theory is that compromise is implicit within this definition, perhaps explicit. His question: Why in the world compromise before you're certain you have to?

Mr. Camp offers the reader an indepth view of why saying No is beneficial to a negotiator amongst an abundance of wisdom, tactics and observations from years of negotiation coaching. In the end, Mr. Camp leaves us with "The Thirty-three Rules" of negotiating. A few of these, which fly in the face of the conventional win-win theory:

- Your job is not to be liked. Its to be respected and effective.
- Never enter a negotiation-never make a phone call-without a valid agenda.
- You do not need it. You only want it. {a very key attribute regardless the theoretical camp in which one resides}
- The value of the negotiation increase by multiples as time, energy, money, and emotion are spent.
- "No" is good, "yes" is bad, "maybe" is worse.
- "Our greatest strength is our greatest weakness (Emerson).

All this said, Mr. Camp has presented an extremely cogent view of why win-win is outdated and outmoded. However, there are always situations wherein weakness is the position in which one begins providing a gauntlet of hurdles to clear before reaching the proprietary level of success. Consequently, it is my conclusion that, while Mr. Camp's methods are unorthodox and unconventional, they can be of great assistance to a negotiator who understands that each negotiation has its own set of facts and circumstances. No single negotiation exists in a vacuum.

Commingled utilization of Mr. Camp's methodology along with emotion-neutral theories should prove valuable to the negotiating professional. A good solid read that should be part of any negotiators' library.

I was VERY impressed with Jim Camp's "Start with No." In under 300 pages, the author gets his point across succinctly and powerfully; negotiations don't begin with "Yes" (which might even be a lie) or "Maybe" which is worse than useless. They begin with "No" and giving permission for the other party to say "no."

The brilliance of the "no" can be the important "way out" in a negotiation, where one party is offered a graceful exit to avoid the sense of feeling trapped or tricked. And it's also the path to finding out what they really need or really can accept. But it's much more than that.

Camp informs the reader that previous theories of negotiation such as "Win-Win" are pure bunkum; in negotiation, sometimes someone wins and someone else loses. But the long-term outcome may be quite different--what might have been compromised into a mediocre solution by win-win can often be better for both parties when one loses at the outset. Case in point; a contract is drawn up with terms that one party can no longer fulfill. It's time to renegotiate the contract despite the terms and conditions. Why? What if the contract specified that a vendor sell at a price that would drive them out of business? If the buyer NEEDS that product, they'd better negotiate rather than fail to receive the product. Going elsewhere to find it could be more costly than the re-negotiated price.

Camp's experiences are in direct contrast to some of business guru Stephen Covey's "Seven Habits of Highly Successful People", which I thought was quite interesting. To remind you, the habits are:

1- Be Proactive
2- Begin with the End in Mind
3- Put First Things First
4- Think Win/Win
5- Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood
6- Synergize
7- Sharpen the Saw

Mr. Camp actually has no issue with the majority of these habits, but he disagrees vehemently with two of the seven principles: #2--begin with the end in mind, and #4 Think Win/Win. In the case of negotiation, sometimes, Mr. Camp informs us, it's better not be so focused on the goal i.e, getting the lowest price, making that sales quota for that month) lest you appear needy. What's more, being too focused on your own goal might cause you to make dangerous assumptions or fail to realize the underlying situation. And Camp scoffs at the idea of win-win, giving the reader plenty of real-life examples where losing either was just that...losing, or was a neutral outcome (no win, but better than other potentially worse outcomes.)

I recommend this book to anyone getting ready to negotiate nearly anything, from extended bedtimes for your kids, to a refinanced mortgage to a multi-million dollar deal. Excellent material here from this experienced contrarian.

It's probably impossible to accurately review a book on negotiation until you've had time to try the book's ideas. Having just read it, it's difficult to say whether the techniques will be effective. That said, the book is a collection of negotiating tactics--behavior, really. Some sound very useful, e.g., "Blank slate" your mind, meaning take your focus off of the desired outcome and concentrate on the process itself. Which dovetails with another point about never letting yourself be driven by a sense of neediness, only by a detached sense of "I want it but I can live without it if the terms aren't right." The book's tone is slick. You won't find the dispassionate, thoughtful voice in books like Getting To Yes (Camp's nemesis) or Bargaining for Advantage. Camp's unwitting mentor seems to be Herb Cohen's books on negotiating, and he borrows Cohen's slick conversational style. One problem with Camp's approach is that it is his retort to "win-win" negotiating, a style Camp claims is harmful, and for which he blames Getting to Yes for introducing. But if you check Yes, you'll find that nowhere does it advocate the softheaded approach Camp ascribes to it. And whereas Yes advocates preserving the relationship with the other side if possible, Camp asserts that you cannot worry about this and must not let it be a concern. As for the title, Start With No, it never seems to be entirely clear what it means, other than a catchy slogan that seeks to position the book as an answer to Getting to Yes. Camp uses the book as a less-than-subtle advertisement for his training seminars and programs, and hints that while the book is useful, it might not impart real negotiating chops in itself--without further instruction from the master. And his website takes a hardsell approach to getting you to "register" so they can presumably harangue you to buy more material, e.g., CDs, tapes, etc. I came away from the book with the feeling that it contains less useful information than I had hoped, though it does succeed in imparting the view that the person on the other side of the table is not a colleague or "negotiating partner" but your adversary, who must not be trusted. Whether this view is useful depends, I suppose, on the players, the circumstances, etc. Start With No is an interesting addition to your negotiation library, but it doesn't really qualify as a landmark, must-have text on the subject.

I picked up "Getting to Yes" in my first year of law school -- and quickly got tired of getting my rear handed to me every time I entered a negotiation. But I never found anything better until I picked up this book. Contrary to the folk wisdom that had been passed down to me, you don't have to be a tough, table-pounding, take-no-prisoners jerk to win a negotiation. Camp's style is unfailingly helpful and polite -- I could see my mother doing it -- but at the same time tough as nails. (Perhaps this explains why my mother always gets her way....) And although Camp (quite justifiably) spends a lot of time bashing "Getting to Yes," his style also looks for creative resolutions and synergies when they can be found. I just got through a particularly tough negotiation with my mission and purpose intact, giving my adversary the opportunity to say no at every turn, and I've never felt better. Thanks, Jim!

For various reasons, many people are convinced that any negotiation should be concluded on a win-win basis. That is, all who are directly involved walk away with something...or at least think they have. (Back to that point in a moment.) In this volume, Camp asserts that win-win is emotion-based, therefore unreliable and often self-defeating. He claims that the most effective negotiators take a decision-based approach which he explains step-by-step. "What is the poison that resides at the heart of the big lie which is win-win? You've heard of the deadly stuff. It's called [in italics] compromise....Why in the world compromise before you are certain you have to? Sometimes you do, and that's fine, but often you don't, and that's better. The key point is that with the win-win mindset, [in italics] you'll never know which it is."

Here a brief excerpt from Richard Tedlow's The Watson Dynasty in which he discusses a sales strategy used effectively by Joseph Crane who, when National Cash Register's salespersons encountered arguments and objections for which they were unprepared, recommended this response: "Why, that's just the very reason you should have one!" Crane was a great salesman from whom Thomas H. Watson Sr. learned a great deal while employed by NCR. In this instance, as Tedlow explains, "A prospect has just advanced a reason why he should not buy a register. He encounters [in the response by the NCR salesperson] not hesitation, not argument, not refutation. Rather, he is told that his reason not to buy is actually the reverse of what he thought it was. Once again, the magic lay in putting the salesman on the same side of the customer. Crane put the customer in the position of arguing with himself while agreeing with the salesman." Perhaps Camp agrees with me that the single worst mistake in any negotiation, the single most common mistake, is to argue against yourself.

According to Camp, there is a significant difference between perception and reality insofar as a win-win resolution is concerned. That is, if the other party walks away thinking that she or he has "won" something, fine. However, Camp insists, "win-win is often win-lose because it invites unnecessary compromise, because it is [in italics] emotion-based, not [in italics] decision-based, and because it plays to the heart, not to the head." He carefully organizes his material within 14 chapters which introduce, one by one, the principles and practices of his system. In the final chapter, Camp shares what he considers to be "Life's Greatest Lesson: The Only Assurance of Long Term Success" and then in his Conclusion, he offers 33 "rules to remember."

I have previously reviewed several excellent books on the subject of negotiation, each of which (to varying degree) recommends a win-win approach. Obviously, Camp totally disagrees with that approach and explains why. It remains for each reader of this commentary to consider carefully all manner of values, mindsets, strategies, and tactics which these books advocate, then decide for herself or himself which are most appropriate. My own opinion (for whatever it may be worth) is that the decision-based approach is preferable to the emotion-based approach; also that, if at all possible, the resolution of any negotiation serves the best interests of everyone involved. In the final analysis, however, "charity begins at home."

finally, a book that tells you how to not get the short end of the stick. there is no hype in this book. this book is an instruction manual describing, in very clear detail, how to be in control of any negotiation. that means, anything from negotiating with a difficult teenager to brokering a million dollar deal.

this info really opened my eyes; I'm not a complete pushover, but I'm not some pit bull. i've always shyed away from sales and negotiation because i felt my empathy for others was a weakness. WRONG! this book isn't about being an a-hole, being rude, or being fake. it's about taking your empathy as a strength, of being clever in an elegant way. there are such detailed instructions and examples, i can't see why you can't lift these examples and use them in your life. in fact, right after reading this book, i started using some of the example phrases, and found them very empowering.

finally...the nice people can win and still remain the good guys.

Hello all,
two years ago I decided to start my own business. The result so far has been nothing at all. In spite of having many ideas somehow I haven't been able to get to the end of any.

All the times I have negotiated I have done feeling a big necessity to receive a yes and I have reached very bad agreements resulting in people not taking me seriously. I just didn't have the slightest clue at managing negotiations: What to expect, how to act, how to ask for what I want,...

Today I had my first negotiation after reading this wonderful book. What a difference. I didn't feel any necessity cause I know there are more companies that would be interested. I had on paper a list of the things I wanted to received from the other company. I was willing to receive a NO or to say it.

Result: Instead of just talking and getting nowhere (like always so far) the guy has accepted my petitions and I am moving on with the project. What a difference!!!

I feel that now I have tools at negotiating. I don't feel lost or fearful. I know how to act and ask for what I want.

Thanks Jim Camp for this book.
(sorry for my english which limits how I can explain myself).

Probably you saw specific details in the other reviews. I want to say how this book has really helped me.
I don't read non-fiction as a rule, but I could not put this one down. My freelance business has been going down over the years and I had come to the conclusion that it was a self-confidence issue. One example used in the book was about a man who regularly charged less than he was worth. After giving a firm quote within his worth range, but higher than his comfort level, he was a bit shaken. AHA! It isn't just me -- not my talent, my business, my intelligence -- lots of people, even the "big guys" have the same issues. These are skills to be learned and everyone can do it.

The conversational tone felt very welcoming (nurturing, if you will) and frequent examples keep the text from becoming too dry. If you want one book that will guide you toward successful negotiating, I highly recommend this one.

A simply brilliant book, on "how to" negotiate. While contrarian in nature the underlaying principles are a lot closer to win-win than the author admits. A thurough understanding of win-win and strategic negotiation is required before reading this book however.
It dose take some time to "get into" this book, as it contradicts everything you have been tought. But stick it out and you will begin to see the deeper level of understanding behind the book, and win-win strategy as well.

A must read for any profesional. As for those who "don't get it" - too bad.

This book is presents a workable high concept view of the negotiation process. The key strengths are in the following themes: emphasis on valid goals and valid agendas, a focus on the needs and pain of the opposite party, and the value of providing the opportunity for your opposite to say "no." These concepts alone are worth the price of admission. This is not a step-by-step "how to" book - it will not tell you how to deal with the forty or sixty pages of negotiation issues that you might face in a large scale negotiation. It is an effective statement of philosophy; everyone needs such a conceptual starting point to negotiate effectively. One criticism is a missed opportunity: the book might have discussed the link between bad selling and bad negotiation - a great negotiating effort cannot make up for a really poor selling or positioning effort. That said, I recommend the book.