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Product Description
Capacity: Diskless
Synology DS1512+ High Performance NAS Server Scales Up to 15 Drives for SMB Users
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Customer Reviews
Most Helpful Customer Reviews
86 of 88 people found the following review helpful
By D. Thometz
Size Name:Diskless|Amazon Verified Purchase
I did a ton of research and pretty much assessed that Synology was the way to go given the alleged hardware reliability and the excellent software. I bought the 1512+ because it was the newest, fastest and best NAS to host the capacity I needed. Because it was so new it didnt have any reviews on Amazon when i bought it a couple weeks ago. I figured the "+" was a plus right?
Nah.
I got the BBOD after restarting for the first time and lost access to my three drives. Synology support is trying to help by logging into the system remotely but for one reason and another they've caused me to have another inaccessible drive. I'm pissed.
So now I sit here, beside a big black box, four shiny inaccessible disks, and an $1100 hole in my pocket.
I guess i just picked the wrong model. The 1511 seems great. I also appreciate their support crew for trying but I'm submitting an RMA or refund today. I can't trust this model until I know my data is safe on it because isn't that what we buy it for in the first place?
****************************UPDATE 05/02/12**********************************
The Synology support team had finally offered me an advanced RMA a couple days before the official announcement about the dysfunctional units. They didn't initially offer me compensation for the shipping but I was fine to just get the problem unit off my hands and pay for the shipping myself. Lucky that I procrastinated however because they sent me a UPS pre-paid shipping label 3 days after they issued the RMA. So, thanks Synology.
So I got their new unit and figured I would wait a week or so before posting. I've taxed the 1512+ pretty thoroughly over the past couple of weeks with heavy data transfer and downloads and now have 4x2TB working without a single problem. I have also restarted it multiple times without issue.
Right now I feel pretty confident that Synology has located and fixed the problem with the BBOD. So, thanks Synology.
To tell you the truth I probably wouldn't have gone with any other NAS manufacturer even after all the nonsense I went through. I knew it was simply an issue with a manufactured component that was more or less fixed in reasonable time. I guess I was just one of the few who bought this unit at the wrong 'minute'.
On that note I'll change my rank to 4/5.
Why not 5/5?
Well mostly because of the support system. I'm sure that the entire support team was working their butts off to get this issue fixed, but not being available during the weekend is a bit weak for todays standards; especially for a company whose clients typically handle important data.
So, to sum it up:
1. This NAS is the best you can get, for sure. DSM is amazing and the slightly increased price is well worth it.
2. All over the internet Synology has been known to have the best NAS hardware/software in the biz, but they need to increase the support staff to maintain that great reputation.
Nah.
I got the BBOD after restarting for the first time and lost access to my three drives. Synology support is trying to help by logging into the system remotely but for one reason and another they've caused me to have another inaccessible drive. I'm pissed.
So now I sit here, beside a big black box, four shiny inaccessible disks, and an $1100 hole in my pocket.
I guess i just picked the wrong model. The 1511 seems great. I also appreciate their support crew for trying but I'm submitting an RMA or refund today. I can't trust this model until I know my data is safe on it because isn't that what we buy it for in the first place?
****************************UPDATE 05/02/12**********************************
The Synology support team had finally offered me an advanced RMA a couple days before the official announcement about the dysfunctional units. They didn't initially offer me compensation for the shipping but I was fine to just get the problem unit off my hands and pay for the shipping myself. Lucky that I procrastinated however because they sent me a UPS pre-paid shipping label 3 days after they issued the RMA. So, thanks Synology.
So I got their new unit and figured I would wait a week or so before posting. I've taxed the 1512+ pretty thoroughly over the past couple of weeks with heavy data transfer and downloads and now have 4x2TB working without a single problem. I have also restarted it multiple times without issue.
Right now I feel pretty confident that Synology has located and fixed the problem with the BBOD. So, thanks Synology.
To tell you the truth I probably wouldn't have gone with any other NAS manufacturer even after all the nonsense I went through. I knew it was simply an issue with a manufactured component that was more or less fixed in reasonable time. I guess I was just one of the few who bought this unit at the wrong 'minute'.
On that note I'll change my rank to 4/5.
Why not 5/5?
Well mostly because of the support system. I'm sure that the entire support team was working their butts off to get this issue fixed, but not being available during the weekend is a bit weak for todays standards; especially for a company whose clients typically handle important data.
So, to sum it up:
1. This NAS is the best you can get, for sure. DSM is amazing and the slightly increased price is well worth it.
2. All over the internet Synology has been known to have the best NAS hardware/software in the biz, but they need to increase the support staff to maintain that great reputation.
38 of 42 people found the following review helpful
By Charles C.
Size Name:Diskless|Amazon Verified Purchase
Regarding Boot Issues for select DS1512+, DS1812+ and DS212J
by Admin » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:45 am
Taipei, Taiwan--April 13, 2012--Synology® has confirmed a known system issue caused by flawed flash memory chips. This issue can occur when users reboot the DiskStation; the unit will not restart and the blue LED light will blink continuously. This issue does not affect data stored on the DiskStation and will not result in data loss.
The affected products include DS1512+ and DS1812+ worldwide, and DS212j for Asia shipments only. The best estimated quantity is 480, 120 and 700 units respectively and most of them have been returned or are on the way to Synology.
Users who encounter this issue should contact Synology at blueLED@synology.com and our technical support team will provide them with the best solution. If users did not encounter the above issue but still have any concerns, or users want to make sure the product that they are going to purchase is not affected, they are welcome to send serial numbers to blueLED@synology.com for verification.
For resellers who want to check whether their on-hand stocks are affected, they are also welcome to send serial numbers to blueLED@synology.com for verification. Synology strives to ensure all customers can receive our rapid and full support.
"We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by this issue, and appreciate your understanding in this matter. Synology has taken immediate action to correct the situation, and we remain one hundred percent dedicated to serving our customers," said Vic Hsu, CEO of Synology Inc. "Rest assured we have already identified and fixed this problem. No future shipments will be affected."
_____[...]_____
(I do not own this product yet)
______________________________
UPDATE:
I purchased this NAS (DS1512+) about 6 months ago and it has been very solid. I installed 5 3TB Hitachi drives (formatted and set up for RAID 5* (*Synology Hybrid)) and I have about 10.73TB usable space.
It works great as your own personal "Cloud". I am able to access all my photos, music, videos, and files from any web connected PC, iPhone, and Android based phone.
Is this product and its associated phone Apps perfect? ...Of course not. Is there room for improvement? ...Of course there is. If given the choice to buy it again today would I? ...Yes I would.
by Admin » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:45 am
Taipei, Taiwan--April 13, 2012--Synology® has confirmed a known system issue caused by flawed flash memory chips. This issue can occur when users reboot the DiskStation; the unit will not restart and the blue LED light will blink continuously. This issue does not affect data stored on the DiskStation and will not result in data loss.
The affected products include DS1512+ and DS1812+ worldwide, and DS212j for Asia shipments only. The best estimated quantity is 480, 120 and 700 units respectively and most of them have been returned or are on the way to Synology.
Users who encounter this issue should contact Synology at blueLED@synology.com and our technical support team will provide them with the best solution. If users did not encounter the above issue but still have any concerns, or users want to make sure the product that they are going to purchase is not affected, they are welcome to send serial numbers to blueLED@synology.com for verification.
For resellers who want to check whether their on-hand stocks are affected, they are also welcome to send serial numbers to blueLED@synology.com for verification. Synology strives to ensure all customers can receive our rapid and full support.
"We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by this issue, and appreciate your understanding in this matter. Synology has taken immediate action to correct the situation, and we remain one hundred percent dedicated to serving our customers," said Vic Hsu, CEO of Synology Inc. "Rest assured we have already identified and fixed this problem. No future shipments will be affected."
_____[...]_____
(I do not own this product yet)
______________________________
UPDATE:
I purchased this NAS (DS1512+) about 6 months ago and it has been very solid. I installed 5 3TB Hitachi drives (formatted and set up for RAID 5* (*Synology Hybrid)) and I have about 10.73TB usable space.
It works great as your own personal "Cloud". I am able to access all my photos, music, videos, and files from any web connected PC, iPhone, and Android based phone.
Is this product and its associated phone Apps perfect? ...Of course not. Is there room for improvement? ...Of course there is. If given the choice to buy it again today would I? ...Yes I would.
11 of 11 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars
A terrific "network attached storage" device, but also a LOT more
December 24, 2012
Size Name:Diskless|Amazon Verified Purchase
A while back, I got a new wireless router which had the ability to support an external USB (2.0) hard disk and to treat that as a network-attached-storage device. This worked acceptably, but there were issues. The "DLNA" functionality wasn't very well-designed (something I've only recently been able to confirm, now that I have this device up and running). The speed of transfer was painfully slow. And the device itself would fail on a regular basis, both dropping out and becoming "undetected" and, worse, corrupting data during larger transfers (such as, say, movie files). So, this quickly became an exercise is frustration - a great idea, but not a great implementation (FYI, I was trying to do this using my Asus "Dark Knight" router with a Western Digital "MyBook" 3TB drive.)
http://www.amazon.com/RT-N66U-Dual-Band-Wireless-N900-Gigabit-Router/dp/B006QB1RPY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1356367477&sr=8-2&keywords=asus+dark+knight
http://www.amazon.com/Book-Essential-External-Drive-Storage/dp/B0042Z55RM/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1356367503&sr=1-1&keywords=western+digital+mybook+3tb
So, the last time I "lost" my network access to my entertainment files, I decided to finally take the plunge and buy an ACTUAL "network storage" system. I'd been shopping for some time, and had experimented with the "online demo" for Synology's "Diskstation Manager" software... and had read pretty much ALL the reviews for this device. Yes, I knew that there had been some issues with installed memory chips on one of the earliest production runs of this device, which led to the infamous "Blinking blue light of death" you'll see referred to in a number of reviews here, but that Synology had moved quickly to fix this, and had repaired/replaced the defective units (barring, potentially, any which no one had located and identified as needing to be returned)... about 400 or so total devices. So, I felt confident buying this.
Setup was a breeze. I ordered five Western Digital "Red" 3TB drives (actually about 2.73TB in "binary" terms), which, when set up in a "Synology Hybrid Raid" configuration, would provide me with about 10.5TB of actual addressable storage in a single volume, with the ability to survive the failure of a single drive (and the ability to "hot swap" a replacement drive in without even powering off the system) without data loss... or so the claims go, though I have yet to test this out in practice!
Total setup time for the physical side took me about a half hour. Setting up the basic software installation took another half hour. I then let the system run overnight... it took about 20 hours total to fully configure the system, including the full disk "parity check" (to ensure that I didn't have a bad drive) which is part of the default setup process, but this period didn't require any interaction from me, and didn't require me to leave my computer on, and in theory, I could have accessed the volume during that period (though I chose not to).
The device itself is, quite literally, a small dedicated-purpose computer. You COULD build your own NAS system, using standard computer hardware, which would be largely equivalent to this, except that you would not have the Synology "Diskstation Manager" operating system, which is really a very nice software platform, essentially a "Linux-like" OS but custom-made to serve the needs of this device.
One thing to realize is that this device does not accept a keyboard, mouse, speakers, or monitor. There is NO "user interface" in the physical hardware, except for the power button and a few indicator lights. To control and configure the device, you'll need to access it through your own network, using a standard computer (the interface is actually a "web page," albeit one which is configured to resemble a "desktop" like you might have on your Mac, Windows PC, or Linux PC. I recommend going to the Synology website, looking into the "Diskstation manager" section, and checking out the "live demo." Here's the link to that, if Amazon will allow it to remain:
[...]
That'll give you a pretty clear idea of what using your Diskstation will be like. (This "demo" isn't a simulation... you're actually logging onto a device at Synology's offices which is set in a "Demo mode" so you can't screw it up... but you can experience the REAL THING.)
One very nice feature of this is the ability to "link-aggregate." It has two gigabit network lines - you can combine those (once set up, through the control panel) to act as a single "two gigabit" ethernet connection. While most of the devices you'll be working with on your network will only be able to accept data at 1GB or lower speeds, this means that you can "serve" multiple clients downstream without any lag... not unless you're supporting a LOT of devices, all drawing lots of data at the same time (in which case, this device is probably not the one you'll want... you'll want one of the rack-mounted systems, tied into a much more complicated network infrastructure).
Now, if all you want to do is share media and/or use this as a network backup system, it's very well suited for that. But you might be surprised to find out just what else this system can do for you. Synology likes to advertise this as "you become your own cloud," and that's really accurate. You can do many of the things that you currently have to rely on your internet service provider or some other remote service for, locally.
In my own case, I'm starting to set up a website on this device. It has (free) software available through the "Package manager" application which can let you host webpages on here, set up "blogs" and "bulletin board/chat board" features, run a WIKI, engage in "eCommerce," create your own email service which you can host yourself, and so forth. You'll still need a network connection, but you can do pretty much everything else "locally." In the current situation, where so many "web service providers" are starting to claim that if you store data on their servers, you've given them "right of use in perpetuity" to anything you store there... meaning that they can sell your family pictures for use in advertising, for example... there's a lot to be said for keeping your own total control of these assets.
Mind you, doing this more complex "professional-level" tasks isn't entirely trivial... I'm having to learn a lot of new information about how to set up and configure "SQL" databases, for example... it's not TOO painful, and I plan to carry this through to complete implementation, all using this device.
One nice thing re: this device is that you can expand it fairly easily. I can easily imagine upgrading myself, using one of the two potential "expansion box" housings and another five 3TB drives, which will give me a total storage of about 24.5TB. I could add a second one if I wanted to, but I can't imagine how I'd use that much more storage (about 38.2TB if I stick with 3TB drives). Also, note that this CAN support 4TB drives, but these are very expensive and not very reliable right now, so I'd stick with the Western Digital "RED" 3TB drives for now. (The "RED" drives are designed specifically for always-on, heavy-access RAID-type devices like this NAS.) The headroom seems large, to be sure, but it's nice to know that it's there if I find that I need it at some point in the future!
There is one other thing that this device is set up to do by default... to act as the hub of a security system, using networked "IP cameras" such as those made by Foscam, like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Foscam-FI8910W-Network-Camera-Two-Way/dp/B006ZP8UOW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356370128&sr=8-1&keywords=foscam
There's a small drawback there though... for reasons I don't really understand, Synology has set it up so that you have to "buy a license" for each camera you add... and those aren't inexpensive.
http://www.amazon.com/Synology-IP-Camera-License-Pack/dp/B001MJ0JAO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1356370205&sr=1-1&keywords=synology+camera+license+pack
By contrast, if you use Foscam's software (which requires a computer to be on at all times, of course) you can run up to 64 cameras using a single purchased software package:
http://www.amazon.com/Foscam-Blue-Iris-Professional-Compression/dp/B008YD80KC/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1356370259&sr=1-21&keywords=foscam
I think that this is a mistake on the part of Synology... and I hope that they'll reconsider their policy on this, and just make the software open to multiple cameras up-front. Otherwise, I would NOT recommend this server as a "security hub" system.
The one thing I really can't comment on is what happens when/if this device fails. I know what's SUPPOSED to happen, but whether that's what really happens... I won't know until it actually does (which I hope is a long, long time in the future!) So... if I have a failure, I'll add to this review based upon that, telling you if it goes well or if it's not so smooth.
Ultimately, though this was a PRICEY purchase, so far I've had literally no problems or concerns... I'm a very satisfied customer and I'd recommend this to anyone who wants to, as I do, "become your own cloud."
http://www.amazon.com/RT-N66U-Dual-Band-Wireless-N900-Gigabit-Router/dp/B006QB1RPY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1356367477&sr=8-2&keywords=asus+dark+knight
http://www.amazon.com/Book-Essential-External-Drive-Storage/dp/B0042Z55RM/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1356367503&sr=1-1&keywords=western+digital+mybook+3tb
So, the last time I "lost" my network access to my entertainment files, I decided to finally take the plunge and buy an ACTUAL "network storage" system. I'd been shopping for some time, and had experimented with the "online demo" for Synology's "Diskstation Manager" software... and had read pretty much ALL the reviews for this device. Yes, I knew that there had been some issues with installed memory chips on one of the earliest production runs of this device, which led to the infamous "Blinking blue light of death" you'll see referred to in a number of reviews here, but that Synology had moved quickly to fix this, and had repaired/replaced the defective units (barring, potentially, any which no one had located and identified as needing to be returned)... about 400 or so total devices. So, I felt confident buying this.
Setup was a breeze. I ordered five Western Digital "Red" 3TB drives (actually about 2.73TB in "binary" terms), which, when set up in a "Synology Hybrid Raid" configuration, would provide me with about 10.5TB of actual addressable storage in a single volume, with the ability to survive the failure of a single drive (and the ability to "hot swap" a replacement drive in without even powering off the system) without data loss... or so the claims go, though I have yet to test this out in practice!
Total setup time for the physical side took me about a half hour. Setting up the basic software installation took another half hour. I then let the system run overnight... it took about 20 hours total to fully configure the system, including the full disk "parity check" (to ensure that I didn't have a bad drive) which is part of the default setup process, but this period didn't require any interaction from me, and didn't require me to leave my computer on, and in theory, I could have accessed the volume during that period (though I chose not to).
The device itself is, quite literally, a small dedicated-purpose computer. You COULD build your own NAS system, using standard computer hardware, which would be largely equivalent to this, except that you would not have the Synology "Diskstation Manager" operating system, which is really a very nice software platform, essentially a "Linux-like" OS but custom-made to serve the needs of this device.
One thing to realize is that this device does not accept a keyboard, mouse, speakers, or monitor. There is NO "user interface" in the physical hardware, except for the power button and a few indicator lights. To control and configure the device, you'll need to access it through your own network, using a standard computer (the interface is actually a "web page," albeit one which is configured to resemble a "desktop" like you might have on your Mac, Windows PC, or Linux PC. I recommend going to the Synology website, looking into the "Diskstation manager" section, and checking out the "live demo." Here's the link to that, if Amazon will allow it to remain:
[...]
That'll give you a pretty clear idea of what using your Diskstation will be like. (This "demo" isn't a simulation... you're actually logging onto a device at Synology's offices which is set in a "Demo mode" so you can't screw it up... but you can experience the REAL THING.)
One very nice feature of this is the ability to "link-aggregate." It has two gigabit network lines - you can combine those (once set up, through the control panel) to act as a single "two gigabit" ethernet connection. While most of the devices you'll be working with on your network will only be able to accept data at 1GB or lower speeds, this means that you can "serve" multiple clients downstream without any lag... not unless you're supporting a LOT of devices, all drawing lots of data at the same time (in which case, this device is probably not the one you'll want... you'll want one of the rack-mounted systems, tied into a much more complicated network infrastructure).
Now, if all you want to do is share media and/or use this as a network backup system, it's very well suited for that. But you might be surprised to find out just what else this system can do for you. Synology likes to advertise this as "you become your own cloud," and that's really accurate. You can do many of the things that you currently have to rely on your internet service provider or some other remote service for, locally.
In my own case, I'm starting to set up a website on this device. It has (free) software available through the "Package manager" application which can let you host webpages on here, set up "blogs" and "bulletin board/chat board" features, run a WIKI, engage in "eCommerce," create your own email service which you can host yourself, and so forth. You'll still need a network connection, but you can do pretty much everything else "locally." In the current situation, where so many "web service providers" are starting to claim that if you store data on their servers, you've given them "right of use in perpetuity" to anything you store there... meaning that they can sell your family pictures for use in advertising, for example... there's a lot to be said for keeping your own total control of these assets.
Mind you, doing this more complex "professional-level" tasks isn't entirely trivial... I'm having to learn a lot of new information about how to set up and configure "SQL" databases, for example... it's not TOO painful, and I plan to carry this through to complete implementation, all using this device.
One nice thing re: this device is that you can expand it fairly easily. I can easily imagine upgrading myself, using one of the two potential "expansion box" housings and another five 3TB drives, which will give me a total storage of about 24.5TB. I could add a second one if I wanted to, but I can't imagine how I'd use that much more storage (about 38.2TB if I stick with 3TB drives). Also, note that this CAN support 4TB drives, but these are very expensive and not very reliable right now, so I'd stick with the Western Digital "RED" 3TB drives for now. (The "RED" drives are designed specifically for always-on, heavy-access RAID-type devices like this NAS.) The headroom seems large, to be sure, but it's nice to know that it's there if I find that I need it at some point in the future!
There is one other thing that this device is set up to do by default... to act as the hub of a security system, using networked "IP cameras" such as those made by Foscam, like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Foscam-FI8910W-Network-Camera-Two-Way/dp/B006ZP8UOW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356370128&sr=8-1&keywords=foscam
There's a small drawback there though... for reasons I don't really understand, Synology has set it up so that you have to "buy a license" for each camera you add... and those aren't inexpensive.
http://www.amazon.com/Synology-IP-Camera-License-Pack/dp/B001MJ0JAO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1356370205&sr=1-1&keywords=synology+camera+license+pack
By contrast, if you use Foscam's software (which requires a computer to be on at all times, of course) you can run up to 64 cameras using a single purchased software package:
http://www.amazon.com/Foscam-Blue-Iris-Professional-Compression/dp/B008YD80KC/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1356370259&sr=1-21&keywords=foscam
I think that this is a mistake on the part of Synology... and I hope that they'll reconsider their policy on this, and just make the software open to multiple cameras up-front. Otherwise, I would NOT recommend this server as a "security hub" system.
The one thing I really can't comment on is what happens when/if this device fails. I know what's SUPPOSED to happen, but whether that's what really happens... I won't know until it actually does (which I hope is a long, long time in the future!) So... if I have a failure, I'll add to this review based upon that, telling you if it goes well or if it's not so smooth.
Ultimately, though this was a PRICEY purchase, so far I've had literally no problems or concerns... I'm a very satisfied customer and I'd recommend this to anyone who wants to, as I do, "become your own cloud."
Most Recent Customer Reviews
5.0 out of 5 stars
Love it!
I love this NAS. It's quiet, easy to add/swap disks, and the Synology NAS software/OS is excellent (and constantly being updated with tweaks/features). Read more
Published 5 days ago by Evil Attorney
5.0 out of 5 stars
I read the reviews and researched for a year
This thing will do way way more than I need and comes with a large number of apps,everything from using it for cloud storage, to VPN to ani-virus etc etc.. Read more
Published 5 days ago by Tom Cauley
5.0 out of 5 stars
Top of the class
Let me explain... no, is too long. Let me sum up: setup is trivially easy, speed and reliability are excellent, there is nothing here to complain about in any way. Read more
Published 7 days ago by Matthew B. Jackson
4.0 out of 5 stars
Great NAS, probably a little overkill for home use
Unfortunately I purchased this device during the peak of the hard drive shortage due to the flooding in Thailand, so I purchased 3 3-TB Western Digital Green drives from Costco and... Read more
Published 8 days ago by C. Olsen
5.0 out of 5 stars
Amazing NAS
I've own several different brands of NASs from buffalo to QNAP but this is easily my favorite. The software is easy to setup and very feature rich. Read more
Published 8 days ago by Kristof Toth
5.0 out of 5 stars
just fine
I've been using the DS1512+ for about a year, so far. I have not experienced any problems or difficulties. It does what I want, and its performance is quite good. Read more
Published 16 days ago by Dan P
4.0 out of 5 stars
Great Professional NAS
Like many of you i have tried to build a computer to be used for network storage because i thought it would be cheaper; the reality is that unless you spend just as much money and... Read more
Published 19 days ago by Crankyhobo
5.0 out of 5 stars
Amazing
This is an amazing NAS!!! While expensive, it was worth every penny. If you're in the market to get a NAS, you won't be disappointed with Synology NASes.
Published 19 days ago by Randy D. Stevens
5.0 out of 5 stars
Simple But Powerful
The Diskstation was super easy to set up at my small business. We are currently using it as a file server, FTP server, and to provide secure remote access to files using VPN. Read more
Published 23 days ago by Drew Larson
5.0 out of 5 stars
Easy to setup and just works
I put 4 4TB drives in the DS1512+. Went through the setup procedure which was very easy. I created a user ID, password, volume, rights and such with very little reference... Read more
Published 28 days ago by E. Mautz
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