Customer Reviews

Talk of the Devil: Encounters with Seven Dictators

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Those seeking detailed biographies of the dictators Italian journalist Orizio tracks down, or penetrating histories and analyses of the years of their respective rule should turn elsewhere, as this is not the book for them. Instead, this is an oddly compelling mix of investigatory reportage and "Where Are They Now?" for readers with an interest in international events. Anyone looking for rigor and meticulous detail will not be pleased with the short chapters such as those on Idi Amin or Bokassa, in which Orizio spends more time recounting his efforts to find his quarry than actually talking to them. This is not necessarily a bad thing though, for the sad truth of the book is that these dictators may have come from a range of cultural and economic backgrounds, but they all end up saying the same thing.

In his preface, Orizio writes that "I deliberately chose those who had fallen from power in disgrace, because those who fall on their feet tend not to examine their own conscience." However, the cliché of the banality of evil fulfills itself, as every single interviewee has the same lies, excuses, and delusions as the others (except for Bokassa, who insists the Pope secretly proclaimed him the 13th Apostle). Unrepentence is rife, as the interviewees trot out the same old chestnuts:"history will vindicate me", "the crimes I'm accused of are all lies perpetrated by my enemies", "my country was better off under me, " "I love my people/country." Clearly none of them have any interest in or incentive for honest examination of their rule, indeed, at this point belief in their own mythology is probably an ingrained psychological self-defense mechanism.

Orizio does present a brief sketch of each dictator's country, and of the history of their rule. We find that hand in hand with the psychological similarity is a methodological similarity in rule. Rise to power based on ideology (or voodoo in the case of Baby Doc), consolidation of power via construction of cult of personality enforced by secret police, leading to corruption, cronyism, and systematic transfer of national wealth to Swiss bank accounts. The odd man out in all this is General Jaruzelski, who instituted martial law in Poland in 1981, and whose hands are vastly less bloody than those of the six others in the book. Indeed, one is almost tempted into feeling sorry for him, lumped in with the half-dozen Marxists, Maoists, Ultranationalists, and nut cases who ruined their countries. The book is an excellent introduction to some creepy, and yes, evil, figures from the recent past. Mengistu, for example, is completely forgotten in the U.S., and the distinctly creepy Hoxha couple of Albania are totally unknown.

"Talk of the Devil" by Riccardo Orizio is a journalist's quest to interview famous past dictators. The focus of the book is both on the subjects and on author's efforts to find them, and this detracts from the result.

The dictators (or their spouses) are an interesting assortment, but certainly not expansive. There are three from Africa (Idi Amin Dada, Mengistu Haile-Mariam and Jean-Bedel Bokassa), three from Europe (Wojciech Jaruzelski, Nexhimije Hoxha and Mira Markovic) and one from the Western Hemisphere (Jean-Claude Duvalier). The author omitted South American dictators from his sample, and no Asian or Arab dictators are sought or found.

My interest in ethics drew me to the book: I had hoped to find some concepts or ideas that drove these people to make such terrible choices. However, while Orizio is a fine journalist, his writing and interview style did not easily aid me in my goal. Generally, most denied they did anything unethical, called their accusors liars, and appeared unable to distinguish between their own fortunes and that of their countries.

The Africans in particular were very uneven: Dada was not sufficiently interviewed and Bokassa came across as clinically insane. Mariam claims to be a dedicated Marxist, but he also oddly admits to have shopped around for superpower allies after taking power. One almost gets the impression that, had the US been willing to assist him, he might have been a Capitalist. But neither the US nor Maoist China provided support, and Russia's Marxism-Leninism won him over by default.

Like the others, Haiti's Jean-Claude Duvalier appeared to seriously believe he was good for his nation, and beloved there still.

Orizio never really interviewed three European dictators. He interviewed the two wives (albeit strong-willed and perhaps powerful) and Poland's Jaruzelski. Of these, Jaruzelski clearly does not belong in this company (and probably does not belong in the book): of all of the persons interviewed, he is introspective and thoughtful. His lapdog-like devotion to the Soviet Union, even after that nation so brutalized him and his family, reminds one of a person suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

And there is what the book lacks: footnotes, endnotes, an index, decent photographs, consistent organization, good historical information on the dictatorships and their horrors, and a better editor. But what the journalist needed most was probably a fixed set of good questions to ask each individual, and perhaps a psychologist sidekick to join in the travels.

While Orizio certainly crafted a readable book, he provides little new to help us understand what happened, and why.

This book is based on a great concept. Throughout recent history, there have been notorious dictators who, though years ago, dominated our headlines while now are merely footnotes in history books. Riccardo Orizio decides to find seven of these dictators ,interview them, find out what they have been up to, and what they feel about there reign.

Each dictator takes a chapter, and the readers learns about their past, their feelings, and their own view of themselves, which proves extremely fascinating. In each chapter, Riccardo details his ordeals on reaching these fallen dictators, a short history of what they did, and what they are currently up to. Riccardo does a great job of simultaneously making fun of and humanizing these individuals. He also provides insight into there current lives, from Idi Amin's sons, one of whom played basketball in Boston College, the other being a military terrorist being help by Idi himself, to Slobadon Milosevic's wife, who plays the role of a tortured, loyal wife.

I think the main problem of this book is that it is too addictive. It's a short book, so while I intended to have this book last me a week, I couldn't put in down. I bought at noon, and I finished before dinner. One complaint might be that the interviews and background information are not thorough. While true, I think that by leaving out the text book information, he was able to immerse the reader with the dictator's lives and provide great fluidity.

All in all, it's a great idea that proves too addictive to put down.

What happens to deposed despots, dictators and political murderers? Do they show any remorse for their past actions and the destruction of their nations? How do they feel about being written into the history books as the most evil men and women of past century? These are the questions which Ricardo Orizio attempts to answer by tracking down nine of the most notorious tyrants of the past fifty years. At times comical, and at times sad, Orizio paints a picture of evilness that may be unexpected but always interesting. Some of Orizio's dictators are clearly insane (as if their past actions weren't evidence enough) while others provide justification for their actions in a manner which leaves the reader almost convinced. Although much of the work is collected from news snippets and other secondary sources, the interviews conducted by Orizio provide an aspect that isn't captured well through the media. Orizio grants a picture into the minds of these individuals, a look at their deeper, "human" side. My only wish is that Orizio's questions were a little more hard-hitting. Instead, the reader needs to read between the lines to make assumptions of dictatorial character.

I would highly recommend "Talk of the Devil" to anyone with an interest in politics and/or history. I loved reading the book and read it almost non-stop from beginning to end. However, I strongly believe that General Jaruzelski does not belong in this book. General Jaruzelski is guilty of having declared martial law in 1981, which may or may have not blocked a Soviet invasion of Poland, and he may or may not share guilt in the shooting of 44 demonstrators in 1970 when he was defense minister. During the interview, in a house provided by the Polish government drinking vodka from plastic cups, Jaruzelski directly addressed these issues. Whereas the others in the book avoided saying they did anything wrong. The magnitude of Jaruzelski's crimes pale in comparison to others in the book; Mengistu Haile-Mariam who Amnesty International estimates killed 500,000 Ethiopians, Jean-Claude Duvalier who stole $900 million from the Haitian people, Idi Amin-Dada who had an unfaithful mistress hatched to pieces then had her limbs sewn back on backwards and showed her to people to scare them into being loyal, and Jean-Bedel Bokassa who alleged to have killed and eaten his political opponents! But regardless of his inclusion in the book it gets a 4 star rating from me.

Mister Orizio has written a slim and elegant volume, with a greater depth of thought that seems at first sight.
I think that evil -and evil doers- are one of the lasting themes of reflection of mankind. The author, in the present book, adds an interesting point of view which certainly is thought-provoking.
He focuses on seven dictators -well, six: Amin, Bokassa, Mengitsu, Duvalier, Milosevic, Jaruzelski, plus Hoxha's wife-, tries to have a personal interview with them and conveys their words to us. Sometimes the interviews are too short or not very juicy -for example, Amin's one- but Orizio always gives us three important things: the context in which every dictator acted, a sketch of his deeds and some interesting -even humorous- remarks on his subjects. Orizio is always to the point, doesn't lose his way, and so the book is brief but every word is worthy (by the way, my congratulations to the translator: if the English edition is a literary accomplishment, I think that the translator has a part of the merit).
You get several lessons from reading this book. The dictators share several characteristics: they lie to you and lie to themselves ("the country I ruled was happier in my times"), they do not face their guilt ("I am innocent" or, in the best case, "if I am guilty, then so is a whole generation; anyone in my position would have done the same"), they find excuses (better a polish dictatorship than a russian one -Jaruzelski); they are fanatics; and, even in their disgrace, they have enjoyed a more or less comfortable economic situation.
But their most important trait -in all of them, especially in the worst types: Amin, Bokassa, Mengistu- is their lack of empathy with the rest of human beings: they were, and, even worse, they still are utterly indifferent to the sufferings of other people. A person is an object to them, not a subject.
So the final conclusion is about the banality of evil: evil is easy to dispense. You have to be a great man to do a great good; but even an imbecile can do a great evil.

Orizio has done a remarkable thing here: He has tracked down those dictators of the past who are now off the front pages but still alive and well. As he says in his preface, "I deliberatelly chose those who had fallen from power in disgrace, because those who fall on their feet tend not to examine their own conscience." In this "where are they now?" journalistic account, we learn that these men are not only alive and well (and living sometimes opulent lives in exile), but they are also quite unrepentent, maintaining the arrogance of their past. However, Orizio makes few judgements; rather, he tells great stories, true stories, about tracking down and talking to these (previously) fearful tyrants, now stripped of their power. First-rate reading.

Talk of the Devil: Encounters with Seven Dictators


This is a collection of interviews with seven infamous people , all former dictators , now living in exile or , at that time , waiting for the final verdict and a long awaited 'award ' -prison , as is the case with the Yugoslav butcher , unfortunatelly , just one in the infinite line of this special breed of monsters - Milosevic . It is more than just commendable that an idea as this one , namely , to do an interview not with some anonymous street dude but with former rulers , whose rule had brought nothing but misery , rows of unmarked graves and absolute and total economic and moral destruction , personalities , whose names had immediately brought shivers down peoples'spines ,who had simply frozen to the spot just by hearing their despots ' names uttered , as they were everything , everywhere , above the law , beneath it , omnipresent, omniscient , demigods ! And now they are reminiscing about their glorious days, unforgiving , even more : not being able to undestand that now they are culprits , ordinary criminals , who had nothing but compassion and unbelieavable plans for their respective countries , they now in exile , far away from home , penniless , or as guests ( part with Mengistu , who is still living better than the others in this collection , having an important say in Zimbabwean politics of extermination in the infamous CIO ! ) . Some of them are simply caricatures ( Idi , his friend Bokassa , ) ,while others still remain convinced in their total innocence, bland , severe ,and tricked by the only god they firmly believed in -history , unsurprisingly , all commies ( the boring Polish colonelo-turned -generallisimo -turned Russophile - Jaruzelski , madame Hoxha and madame Milosevis -talking about women's innocence ! ) . Shortly , this must be considered a serious work of history that is in fact a collection of seven horror stories , as these monsters ( hence the appropriate title ! ) are so ,well , like the aforementioned dudes from the next block ! And another proof of the world's two most turbulent points , the Balkans and Africa !

I would highly recommend "Talk of the Devil" to anyone with an interest in politics and/or history. I loved reading the book and read it almost non-stop from beginning to end. However, I strongly believe that General Jaruzelski does not belong in this book. General Jaruzelski is guilty of having declared martial law in 1981, which may or may have not blocked a Soviet invasion of Poland, and he may or may not share guilt in the shooting of 44 demonstrators in 1970 when he was defense minister. During the interview, in a house provided by the Polish government drinking vodka from plastic cups, Jaruzelski directly addressed these issues. Whereas the others in the book avoided saying they did anything wrong. The magnitude of Jaruzelski's crimes pale in comparison to others in the book; Mengistu Haile-Mariam who Amnesty International estimates killed 500,000 Ethiopians, Jean-Claude Duvalier who stole $900 million from the Haitian people, Idi Amin-Dada who had an unfaithful mistress hatched to pieces then had her limbs sewn back on backwards and showed her to people to scare them into being loyal, and Jean-Bedel Bokassa who alleged to have killed and eaten his political opponents! But regardless of his inclusion in the book it gets a 5 star rating from me.

I liked this read. It was interesting to read how seven ex-leaders are now living their lives. In this book, the author connects up with seven failed leaders. He discovers that these once high and mighty people are all too human. Bokassa is clearly crazy. Amin is a clown. Strasser is homeless. Hoxha and Mengistu are meglomaniacs. One wonders how these people ever got into leadership positions and governed countries. In democracy, you can pick your leaders. These leaders were not picked. I agree with one of the previous reviewers that Jarazelski doesn't belong in this book. He came across as the most intelligent of these failed leaders.

I enjoyed this read. I wish the author would have tried to interview other ex leaders. It would have been interesting to see what Marcos, the Ortega brothers, Pinochet, Pol Pot, had to say in their defense. This is a nice read for those interested in failed dictatorships.