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Showing 1-17 of 17 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Sep 10, 2011 1:38:15 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 10, 2011 2:06:44 AM PDT
JMM says:
There is a lot of uncivilized discussion floating around the Star Wars forums. Basically, here is the fundamental problem:

There are two types of Star Wars fans.

1. People who like the complete six-film saga, prequels and all. These people are probably excited about the blu-ray release. They will likely be able to look past any changes that Lucas has made and enjoy the films nonetheless.

2. People who want the pure, unaltered films. These people typically want to erase the prequels from the world and have the Original Trilogy stand on it's own, just as it was when they were 8 years old.

I respect those in Group #2. But this blu-ray set was clearly intended for those of us in Group #1, and I ask that you respect those whose views are different from yours.
Those in Group #2 will unfortunately have to wait to get what you want... I hope the unaltered films are released soon. But don't hate us for liking the prequels or for wanting to experience Star Wars in HD.

EDIT: This also means that people posting 1-Star reviews (or any review for that matter) for this product before it is even released is unfair. Amazon should not allow product reviews until after the release date.

Posted on Sep 10, 2011 1:50:28 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Sep 10, 2011 1:53:07 AM PDT]

Posted on Sep 10, 2011 3:52:30 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 10, 2011 3:53:22 PM PDT
J. Sheer says:
because people get mad when you mess with their gods and religions
people who worship star wars as a religion get vehemently religious when you mess with their "cannon" of literature same with star trek, harry potter, LOTR or anything else. They have the same reaction that i have when Rob Bell writes a book that discounts the message of the gospel
i don't disagree, but I also don't think its as big of a deal as people make it, because Star Wars, though I love it, is not my religion.
Its someone's own piece of art and at the end of the day - he can do whatever he wants

Posted on Sep 10, 2011 4:45:42 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 10, 2011 4:46:30 PM PDT
Darth Vader says:
What about the people who like all six* as they were originally released in theaters?

My guess is that that group is the largest one and the most varied age-wise.

*except maybe the first hour of Attack of the Clones

Posted on Sep 10, 2011 4:58:42 PM PDT
JMM says:
I agree with Darth Vader. I loved all six films.

But I think we are better equipped to handle the changes than those who only like the Original Trilogy, because:
- Most of the changes were made to the OT, not the PT.
- We have a better appreciation for the whole saga, so agree or disagree with the changes, we can at least see how the changes might help bridge the movies together.

Posted on Sep 10, 2011 5:35:12 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 10, 2011 5:46:27 PM PDT
This thread is a nice breath of fresh air hereabouts. I think JMM and J. Sheer have it about right.

JMM, I've been especially enjoying your posts. As you pointed out, it's not just the OT being futzed with. The entire saga gets this treatment; at this stage, it's become a part of the package deal. Like you, I'd love for the original OT to be released as well, since it's culturally historically and there's obviously some demand for it, and I hope it is out in the best possible quality at some point, but, while try to respect everyone's right to an opinion, I don't especially enjoying having the harsher critics constantly harshing the mellow, when their point is already pretty well-made, and indeed has been for years. I'm especially uncomfortable with the apparent desire to dominate these boards, calling people who disagree with them on the subject at hand "trolls", not because their posts are irrelevant or even uncivil most of the time, but just because their opinions are different, and trying to chase them away with tiresome ad hominem insults and abuse. If there's anyone feeling insecure about their opinions, it's the people who don't even seem to want the other side to have the opportunity to open their mouths, and do their utmost to try to discredit and dismiss their dissenters without actually saying anything that rebuffs any arguments. (I think I'll start referring to these as the "boy who called troll", or maybe just "la-la-la; I can't hear you" posts. That's basically the message I get from people who respond to my comments on here by calling me a troll or apologist, without actually saying anything to undermine the point I was making in the first place.)

That being said, it takes two sides to create a fight. But if those in Group #2 refuse to listen and respond civilly to Group #1, how can we actually be constructive?

As JMM indicated, my requests of group #2 are fairly simple:

-Show some respect for other people in posting, and replying to others' posts.
-Stop calling people trolls for disagreeing with you; it's actually kind of funny if anyone truly thinks this tactic discredits the person they're arguing with.
-Please don't hate on, insult, or verbally abuse me, or anyone else, personally because of our disagreements over the Star Wars blu-ray issues we're supposed to be focused on here.

Discussing our different viewpoints can actually be very interesting and enjoyable, enriching even. I can even tolerate fantasies that this product will sell poorly, since I'm pretty confident that time will come down on my side there. It's just when people start getting personal and nasty that I really and truly object.

(P.S. I know I can be a little sarcastic or facetious myself, but I hope my sense of humor isn't taken as genuine nastiness or viciousness. It's just a style of posting, and I hope I don't go too far, too often.)

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 10, 2011 5:50:27 PM PDT
1. It's those of us in group #2 who made Lucas who he is, not those of you in group #1. We've spent decades loving these movies, buying the toys, the Halloween costumes, the shirts, etc... so we feel he should show us a little appreciation and give us the films we grew up on.

2. I have absolutely no problem with the prequels. I would have preferred he do the 'New Jedi Order' sequels instead, but that's just me.

It's obvious that Lucas is money hungry and that's why he made the prequels so childish, and now he's doing the 'Clone Wars' children's cartoon, which is fine, do as you wish, but it can't hurt to reward us older fans who put him where he is.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 10, 2011 6:00:34 PM PDT
JMM says:
Thanks for the response, Red-Beared Wookie. I completely agree with you on all points.

Group #2 needs to calm down and start being more polite. No need to insult those of us who support this current blu-ray release... if it was up to us we would release the originals on blu-ray to give the old-school fans what they want.

But some have the viewpoint that if they can't enjoy the blu-ray release, then nobody else should be able to either. And that is a very selfish way to think.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 10, 2011 6:18:13 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 10, 2011 6:19:06 PM PDT
" It's those of us in group #2 who made Lucas who he is, not those of you in group #1. We've spent decades loving these movies, buying the toys, the Halloween costumes, the shirts, etc... so we feel he should show us a little appreciation and give us the films we grew up on. "

It is not solely you, and subsequent generations have also made a contribution to Lucas' success. Nonetheless, I have seen posts from self-proclaimed original fans who like the prequels and are even OK with the current changes. Please don't presume that no one from Group 1 is of the "original" generation, or that those like me, who can't control when we were born, wouldn't have been "original" fans, had we been around at the time.

I'm sorry, but your own view of your status does not give you special entitlement above anyone else as human being. And that is true of me, and of everyone else as well.

Posted on Sep 10, 2011 6:22:00 PM PDT
duke4711 says:
I support this blu-ray release. In my opinion, the good outweighs the bad. The only bad thing in my opinion is the changes to Jedi. Honestly, I think part of me belongs in both groups because I love all six films, and I prefer the special editions of the original trilogy. At the same time, however, I would like to see the original theatrical cuts preserved. Also, after I sold my DVDs, and I had a credit from a game, I'm ending up getting it for about $10, so that is a deal. This way, if I like what is on the double dip that we all know is coming at some point, and if I get at least $10 when I try to sell it, I'm all right. So there, George Lucas! You're only getting $10 from me for your glorious blu-ray set! How do you like that?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 10, 2011 6:29:18 PM PDT
Agreed again, JMM. Since I'm of somewhat an egalitarian persuasion, when you mention people behaving selfishly at the expensive of others' enjoyment, that resonates with me. Lucas' most important job when releasing a product to the public is to satisfy society overall, or in other words do what meets the most needs or desires, rather than put certain special interests ahead of everyone else. That being said, there's no real reason I know of that it would be impossible to satisfy both groups in this case. Unless the mere presence of the SEs, even if the unaltered versions were released right alongside, would prevent some people from buying, in which case, if that happened, they'd be self-defeating anyhow. I hope for their sake that Group #1 doesn't generally carry *that* attitude, because it's very difficult to stop someone from drowning when they insist on taking off the lifejacket you toss them.

Posted on Sep 13, 2011 12:52:08 PM PDT
Chan says:
Here's group #3 those star wars fans like myself that love the "Original Trilogy" aka the "Original Theatrical Verisons" but while i dont like or agree with all the '97 & 2004 changes i do watch the special editions and understand their reason for being to make a six episode story. I do like the prequel trilogy as it is the only set im getting from the first star wars blu-ray release i like many others want the "Original Theatrical Verisons" remastered restored & respected and will wait as long as that takes with me its all about choice i want all versions to choose which i want watch and i will choose the order (IV V VI I II III) i watch them in. The only version i dont want is the 2011 (Nooo) version that is to much for me. Yes some will say it does'nt change the movie that much (you are free to feel anyway you want) i dont want anything to do with it, I have the black 2008 "Original Trilogy" dvd box set that along with the prequel trilogy on blu-ray will be enough choice for me, to those upgrading to whichever blu-ray set you "choose" i hope you enioy them for many years to come or till the next star wars blu-ray release ( i think we know which will come first and whats next ) btw i wont be getting the 3D versions or any version that does'nt include the "Original Theatrical Verisons" 1977( i was 10) 1980( still my favorite) & 1983( last of the greats ones). And before i forget the prequel's are only better than the originals because they are newer movies maded with todays advanced tech tricks ( not that theres any wrong with that). George Lucas had his A game working back when he and his crew maded the '77 '80 & '83 classics yes those movies are classics the prequels are good movies no doubt about it but they are not on the same level as those that came before them ask anyone who saw them when they came out at that time we had never seen anything like them (thanks G.L.) and in someways (good plot, strong acting, and special effects only enhancing the story not being the main storyline ) we never will again.

Posted on Sep 15, 2011 12:14:26 PM PDT
Puggo says:
It's not about what *I* want. It's about preserving classic cinema. These films are a major part of our popular cultural history, so if you're going to go in 20 or 30 years later and make changes, then the original should be preserved too. I like some of the changes, but that is irrelevant. I know he has the legal right to supress the originals, but that doesn't mean he should do it. It also doesn't mean I shouldn't complain about it if I think it's wrong. Please show me where I am being disrespectful to the people who disagree with me?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 2:40:00 PM PDT
JMM says:
Puggo, I'm not sure to whom your post was intended, but I think you're one of the good guys. You are correct about everything. The strongest case to be made for releasing the originals does not relate at all to the fans, but rather to the film preservation aspect of the situation.

There are some other people who are not as reasonable or respectful as you are. There are many people that seem to either deny or hate the fact that:
1. People like the prequels
2. People will buy the blu-ray despite the changes that have been made

These people are not thinking rationally. Their opinion about the films are perfectly valid, but they feel that they must belittle or insult anyone who does not agree with their views. And that is wrong.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 3:03:12 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Sep 16, 2011 2:48:19 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 3:29:37 PM PDT
JMM says:
Yes,

Your side gets called "fanboys" and "whiners", and are often told to "move out of your mother's basement".

My side gets called "apologists" and "Lucas butt-kissers", and are often told that we "must be under 20 if we like the prequels".

These are all wrong. We should be respecting each others opinions. We are all Star Wars fans, but there just happens to be some disagreement. I think most people like me still wish that Lucas had released the original versions, and I think most people like you have no problem with me buying and enjoying this blu-ray set. It's just a few hostile people that are trying to ruin the Star Wars experience.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2011 3:34:38 PM PDT
Puggo says:
Again, you're right. But just try walking through the reviews and make a quick tally of what proportion of the 1* reviews reference the "apologists", versus what proportion of 5* reviews reference the "whiners". You might be shocked at how one-sided the tally actually is.
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Participants:  9
Total posts:  17
Initial post:  Sep 10, 2011
Latest post:  Sep 15, 2011

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