Customer Reviews

Then & Now

5 star:		(3)
4 star:		(3)
3 star:		(2)
2 star:		(1)
1 star:		(0)

 

 

From my point of view the main interest in this collection was going to be the "Then" material. Not out of nostaligia, but simply because in the 70s ELP were a great band: awesomely creative, risk-taking, energetic but humanised by Lake's acoustic playing and pure-and-powerful tenor voice (as it then was). Odd, in a way, that they were so reviled during the punk revolution: the virtuosity may have been unfashionable, but the speed thrills, the noise, and the occasional humour were very much part of that spirit.

And the 1974 "Then" material doesn't disappoint; it includes probably the best versions of Karn Evil 9 Part 3 released, for accuracy, energy and conviction. It's also possibly the only one in which Emerson's "voice of the computer" interjections sound genuinely dangerous rather than slightly silly.

Unlike the previous reviewer (who writes a fair review) I don't have a problem with the sound of the 70s recording: good enough is good enough, in my book. What I do have a problem with is the selection. For example we get Carl Palmer's drum solo from _Toccata_, without getting _Toccata_ itself. A fade in to a drum solo, fading out at the end, is not a smart decision, no matter how good the drum solo might be.

And we only get the last half of _Take a Pebble_. It starts at Lake's mid-song acoustic break, for _Still, You Turn me On_ and _Lucky Man_, for which Lake is in fine form both vocally and on guitar. Though I miss the classical-influenced acoustic guitar solo from the original studio version. The track moves on to Emerson's piano improvisations, which are also excellent, and interesting to compare to the improvisations on the _Welcome Back My Friends_ live set, recorded a year earlier. Then we get one verse of _Take a Pebble_, on to the finish.

That "half a song" seems more than a little careless. I'd readily swap getting the whole song for Carl's drum solo. In fact, ideally we'd have got the whole of _Toccatta_ AND all of of _Take a Pebble_, and if something had to go, we could easily have shed some of the "Now" material.

The "Now" performances are inferior at every level. Emerson is intent in showing he can still play fast, which he certainly can; but at the speed he chooses he murders his Piano Concerto 1 movement 3, giving it a high-speed run without expression or feeling. Honky Tonk Train Blues likewise sacrifices everything else in favour of speed. Emerson's speed can be exhilarating, but only if there's also a feeling of control, that we're still getting music and not just a downhill race.

Another problem is that Lake's songs have been re-arranged to minimise or eliminate what used to be opportunities to shine on guitar. And that's odd. A voice can go with age, if it's not looked after, but why shouldn't Lake have got _better_ on his instrument, after 30 years?

Palmer also disappoints. There's a drum sound that dominates a lot of very boring music made in the 80s: that style where the drummer does little but come in with a deep "WHACK!" just a moment behind the beat, to sort of kick the song along. It was quite effective when the style was first developed (I think that Nick Mason may have originated the style in the mid-70s, or at least that Pink Floyd was one of the very first bands to use it, from _Obscured by Clouds_ onwards.) At the time it had a pleasantly laid-back, marijuana feel to it. Then it became a cliche, an integral part of the sound of every boring 80s big-hair stadium act, who went through the 80s and 90s putting out ghastly ballads while pretending to RAWK! also chanting a lot of tedious Rock Anthems, As If Punk (among other things) Never Happened. That plodding drummer's cliche has infected Carl's drumming too, turning an inventive percussionist into a minimalist, and threatening to drag otherwise interesting songs into a MOR morass.

Still, there are compensations. Lake manages the vocals on the 90s shortened version of _Take a Pebble_ well enough; it's not as interesting a voice now it's roughened, but it's passable, and he improves for _Lucky Man_. I like the last section best, with Emerson storming his way through _Fanfare_, _Blue Rondo a la Turk_ (where Emerson includes references to the original, Mozart's _Rondo a la Turque_, in places where Brubeck's "blue" version doesn't), America and so on, on the way quoting bits of Shostakovich, Ginastera, himself (Abbadon's Bolero), Bernstein and any number of other people. It's not quite great music (and I agree with the previous reviewer on Emerson's choice of synth sound: it undermines a lot of what he plays) but it IS a lot of fun.

My 3-star rating is mostly for the "Then" material, and even that is flawed by poor selection. The "Now" stuff would be lucky to get two stars. I'm probably being kind, awarding 3 stars to the whole. So this is one for serious fans only. There are some rewards here, but it's not a good place to begin acquaintance with ELP.

Cheers!

Laon

Emerson, Lake & Palmer consider themselves to be primarily a "live-performance" band, which probably accounts for the number of live albums they've released through the years (6). "Then & Now" shows that even in their later years, the trio has lost little of their energy. The CD cover art harks back to the band's "Brain Salad Surgery" days with a nicely-rendered Giger-esque painting. The "Then" portion on CD#1 contains material that differs little from the group's 1974 "Welcome Back My Friends..." release, save that the "Toccata" track on the current CD features only Carl Palmer's percussion solo and leaves out the rest of the song. The track is unfortunately abortive and should have been either expanded or left off. More satisfying is the "Now" portion of the CD, which yields live performances of "A Time and a Place," "From the Beginning" and "Bitches Crystal" that have never been released on any of the band's live CDs. These tracks alone are worth the price of the CD. "Then & Now" also features a complete live version of "Karn Evil 9, 1st Impression, Part 2" that has been sadly missing from the groups' other recent live releases, and it's nice to hear it once again. On the down side, some numbers -- particularly "Knife Edge" -- have been performed so many times before on previous live albums that the inclusion of this track seems utterly unnecessary, and seems intended to fill space rather than to contribute anything new or different. This is a pity, in that so little of ELP's recent studio material (particularly from their "Black Moon" release, but not forgetting their "In the Hot Seat" CD) has made it to live albums. Granted that the fans want to hear the classics, nevertheless some of the more recent studio material is equally exciting and deserves to be released live. Unfortunately the band has recently disbanded, so the possibility of this is more remote than ever. In any event, the two final tracks of "Then & Now" -- "Fanfare for the Common Man" and "21st Century Schizoid Man" -- manage to capture all of the power, drive and virtuosity that have been the hallmarks of this band since the early 1970s. "Fanfare" in particular showcases Emerson and Palmer at the top of their respective games. Though not without flaws, this album is a must for any ELP fan!

Then & Now is re-hashed material from ELP that we've already heard before. It contains 2 cds of live music. The 1st is 2/3s filled with the California Jam concert from the seventies then 1 1/3 disks of good material recently recorded (but nothing new). The sound recording from the 70s is muddled and on both CDs at the end of each song the sound is faded out. This really takes away from the excitment that really could have been. My advice if you only want one live ELP CD set, go with the King Buscuit set that one also has CD-Rom interactive videos and pictures.

I don't know how this album got past ELP's Quality Control. I remember enjoying the '97-'98 shows that form the more recent part of this set, but I didn't enjoy these recordings. Greg Lake either had a cold when these recordings were made or else he is losing his voice. Either way, why put out an album to document the fact? The recent material also duplicates alot of the older material from the first part, which is performed alot better and with alot more energy and enthusiasm. So the newer stuff pales in comparison the the older stuff, even with the dodgy sound quality (it sounds like somebody put a cassette player up to the speaker of his/her TV in 1974 -- it's sound quality that I would expect on a bootleg) and bad edits.
So you have well-recorded but poorly performed material from 1997-8 and well-performed but poorly recorded material from 1974. I don't think anyone is well-served by this effort. No garlands of Martian fire flowers for anyone involved in the making of this ablum!

This is probably the best compilation that I have heard. I have been a faithful ELP fan since the 1970's, and have bought most if not all of the releases. The excerpts from the California Jam are worth the cost of this CD. This was probably one of their best performances when everything was firing on all cyclinders as they say. The releases from a smaller label company such as this one seem to be better than releases from the major companies. Anyway the California Jam stuff most notably Toccatta have excellent sound quality and make this CD a must buy for the avid ELP fan.

This CD captures two eras of Emerson, Lake & Palmer and their exceptional musical virtuosity. Disc One is comprised mostly of the "Then" portion; their 1974 performance at the nationally televised California Jam Festival. ELP were without doubt, at the pinnacle of their concert successes during this show. Performing much of their newly-released (at that time)"Brain Salad Surgery" album, the energy with which the group flawlessly races through its selections was simply amazing for its time. It's frightening to imagine how this trio would have sounded had MIDI technology had been available in the seventies. The remainder of Disc One and all of Disc Two is comprised of "Now" performances from their 1997 & 1998 World Tours. Though the energy level has slowed down a bit with middle age, ELP have lost little in the precision of their performance. Most spectacular are the more acoustical moments such as "Take A Pebble," "Honky Tonk Train Blues," "From The Beginning," and of course, "Lucky Man." But tracks such as "Karn Evil 9," "Hoedown," and "21st Century Schizoid Man," prove Emerson, Lake & Palmer can still rock with the best of them...

Many call them dynossaurs. In today's desert of music, every new record of ELP brings a blow of fresh air. They are a demonstration that good music has no labels. Be it classic, ragtime, balads (the live version of "From the Beginning" is nothing but a masterpiece), jazz improvisation of the highest quality or the most furious rock, ELP gives a show in terms of artistry and originallity. Better still, live performances are theyr specialty, so they feel particularly comfortable. Theyr classical formation allows them to play anything with their unique flavour of aggressivity and sensitivity. It would be a good thing if guys under 30 years could gain access to this kind of music. Quality of live would improve a lot to them Maurício Botelho Silva - São Paulo - Brazil

Main reason I'm giving this 2-CD release a five-star rating is because it was a but different than most other live ELP discs I've heard.Similar,you understand,but not 'the same'.Maybe one reason was that I thought they really kicked ass on "Touch And Go".Okay,disc one is a live archive performance from 1974 California Jam,in which the best tunes were "Karn Evil 9:First Impression,Part 2/Third Impression" and the beautifully penned "In The Beginning"(this tune DEFINES classic rock).Disc two are assorted cuts from the trio's 1997-98 world tour,in which I couldn't get enough of "Tiger In A Spotlight","Hoedown","Knife Edge" or "Lucky Man".A must-have for any and all fans of Emerson Lake and Palmer.Even new/er fans would likely get a lot from 'Then And Now'.Highly recommended.

I am not a die-hard ELP fan like most of the people that have reviewed here. I just liked "Tarkus" and thought i'd buy this one at the local music store, and a good deal for around 20 dollars, a double live set. Since i've not heard this band live anywhere else, I can't say "Oh, this is superior/inferior to _______ that came out back then". Let me start off at a decent place. The first disc mainly is of a concert that was supposedly a very big deal in the 70's, the So Cal Jam (sorry, I wasn't alive back then, so it's not such a huge basket of flowers to me). Anyhow, it's got some alright music on it, it starts off with "Toccata", which is basically Carl Palmer bashing on the drums (the liner notes say the drumset was spinnning around while he played). It kinda sounds like techno if you listen to it quietly! Then there's Mr. Lake doing solo acoustic versions of their biggest hits "Still you Turn Me On" and "Lucky Man". They're pretty good. Mr. Emerson does a piano improvisation that seems to go on forever, (well about 15 minutes). It's nice, Keith Jarrett does it better though! Then they do "Karn Evil" and etc. The performance itself isn't so bad, it's the sound quality. If it was such a great concert, why does it sound so foggy and distant? Oh well, i'm just saying though..... There's a few songs from their most recent '98 tour on disc one. They're good, the sound quality is a lot better! Disc two is all live from '98. The songs are nice, good selections and all. My biggest gripe is Mr. Emerson's choice of synth sounds at parts. I mean, he was one of the big synth guys in the 70's, much like Rick Wakeman. So you'd figure he wouldn't use so many cheesy sounds here! You get the typical 70's synth stuff that ELP used to good effect in those days.....but there are a lot of goofy 80's synth tones here, and they seem to be used a little bit too much. It just.........it sounds so 80's and even stupid. I'm sorry Mr. Emerson, but I just don't dig the majority of your synth tone choices of recent. The other guys in the band sound like themselves, although Mr. Lake doesn't have the mellow, relaxing voice you might remember from their earlier outings. Age has made his voice rather gritty, he sounds a lot like.......well, every old rock singer, although you can still catch his great singing all over the whole set. Mr Palmer plays as intense as he ever did. And you hear a lot of familiar things here, like the late Aaron Copland's "Hoedown" and "Fanfare for the Common Man", you've heard that stuff before too, maybe not in their music though. There's an old blues thing that Mr. Emerson plays here......i've heard this before, it's a blues from the old days....you know what i'm talking about, the train one! I don't have the track listing on hand, sorry. There's more ELP favorites here, the last track has the old King Crimson track "21st Century Schizoid Man". It is nowhere as heavy and intense here of course. And Lake's voice isn't all distorted like the original so I can understand what he's saying on this version......oh, but i'm so picky about these things!! Ok, ELP fans and alike, it's a good selection of music, the synth just pretty much sucks, and the sound quality one disc one is horrible. Other than that, it's good, I wouldn't say great but it's good. Is it work 20 dollars? Well King Crimson has a new 3 disc live set called "Heavy Construktion" that's much better and only a few dollars more.......but it's all up to you! Oh yeah, the cd case sure does suck, it fell apart I think............