Customer Reviews

& Then There Were Three (Bonus Dvd) (Pal)

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"...And Then There Were Three" was originally released in March of 1978, and it's the first Genesis album following Steve Hackett's departure from the band in 1977.

Now, don't get me wrong here--I'm not denying Hackett's compositional talent or his distinctive fluid guitar style. However, many fans have grossly overstated the importance of Steve Hackett's departure from Genesis. The sound of "And Then There Were Three" is very, very similar to that of the previous album "Wind & Wuthering". Okay, so there aren't any classical guitar spotlights a la "Blood On The Rooftops" on here, but overall, the albums are very sonically similar, and Hackett just wasn't spotlighted enough on the two previous albums, either compositionally or performance-wise, for his loss to be felt all that much.

Tony Banks, Phil Collins, and Mike Rutherford had such an incredible working relationship and chemistry together, as Genesis' 1978-1991 output monumentally demonstrates, that Hackett's leaving the group was undoubtedly for the best. That's not to say things wouldn't have been interesting had Hackett stayed. What seems to be overlooked by most of the fans who accuse Genesis of 'going pop' following Hackett's departure, is that Hackett himself basically 'went pop' in his own right on his 1981 solo album "Cured". All that said, it seems obviously clear that Hackett didn't leave Genesis due to them becoming 'too poppy', he left because he felt suffocated by the other guys and wasn't getting enough of his own compositions in.

In any case, "...And Then There Were Three" finds Genesis brilliantly carrying on without Hackett. Mike Rutherford was a fine guitarist in his own right, and even Banks played guitar (although not on this album if I understand correctly), so filling in the guitar parts was no big deal. And either way, you've still got the dense layers of keyboards from Banks and the tremendous drumming from Collins.

The album starts off with the dynamite "Down And Out". An icy intro gives way to a frenetic rocker with manical Collins drumming on the verses which are in a 10-4 time signature, giving the song an incredibly powerful, hyperactive feel. This is heavy duty progressive rock, folks. The rumor is that the lyrics pertain to Hackett's depature from the band, but it seems to deal more with the band feeling at odds with the 'pop music scene' of the late '70s.

"Undertow" is one of those wistful, lyrically vivid Banks ballads, with his beloved Yamaha CP-70 electric grand piano sound, and a soaring chorus--an absolutely beautiful song. Also beautiful is Rutherford's spiritually-oriented ballad "Snowbound", with Collins singing the verses in that incredibly tender, feathery 'little guy' voice that's characteristic of him for this era (although it would forever vanish by the time of 1981's "Abacab"). The melancholy "Many Too Many" is marred a tad by overly prominent synth-strings, but it's still undeniably moving, with stirringly emotional choruses; it's surprising that it's a Banks solo composition--it sounds very Rutherford-esque. And even if you're burnt out on the feel-good radio hit "Follow You Follow Me", there's no denying it's superbly melodic, and it's neatly enhanced by Rutherford's heavily chorused/ flangered electric guitar.

There's a surprising turn toward Wild West thematics on "Ballad Of Big" and Rutherford's "Deep In The Motherlode", great songs, each in the 4 or 5 minute range, with the usual huge hooks and dynamics that we expect from these guys. The fade on "...Motherlode" makes effective use of backwards reverb on the drums. Banks' longer, 7+ minute "Burning Rope" perhaps drags a tad, but that's splitting hairs--it's darn great, with a terrific intro featuring masterful Collins drum fills. The sprightly "Scenes From A Night's Dream" is a wonderfully catchy pop-rock flavored tune, with terrific ringing guitars and ethereal background vocals.

Banks offers another 6+ minute epic with "The Lady Lies". It's a story-song somewhat along the lines of the previous album's "All In A Mouse's Night". The lyrics, about a femme fatale, are fairly lame and highly obvious, but the music is a different story... The verses are naturally sly and insinuating, and this is contrasted with an absolutely gorgeous chorus, plus there's a spine-tingling mid-section with a great Banks solo spot.

All in all, despite some minor gripes here and there, I can hardly say enough positive things about "...And Then There Were Three". This is the start of an unparalled streak of musical brilliance from the Banks-Collins-Rutherford lineup of Genesis.

I've been a Genesis fan for years but never did get around to picking up this cd until recently. I've got pretty much everything else from the Collins era (Duke, Trick, Wind, Abacab, etc) and love them all. Of course I had already heard "Follow You, Follow Me" so I was curious to see if the rest of the album was any good. Quite frankly, this is a solid album. The arrangements and melodies are great. "Snowbound" is an awesome song that I never tire of, as is "Deep In The Motherlode" and "Undertow." I enjoy listening to this cd from beginning to end and am happy that I finally got it.

So long, Steve Hackett. Hello, pop music. And Then There Were Three marks the emergence of Genesis as a pop rock band. But the album suffers with the absence of Steve Hackett--an absence Genesis recovered from fully over the next two albums (Duke and Abacab). As a result the arrangements sound a bit hollow. I also don't particularly care for the engineering on this album--it sounds overly compressed (Duke was the same way). Good for radio, not necessarily good for headphones or speakers. Perhaps the remastered version addresses this--I still have just the older CD.

And Then There Were Three remains a transitional album. Its hit, Follow You Follow Me, is an indication of how the group would soon master the art of writing catchy yet individualistic pop songs.

Speaking of Follow You Follow Me, the one thing that I find intriguing about the arrangement is Tony Banks overtly doubling the lead vocal in the chorus with his synthesizer. Now THAT is unusual. One wonders if Banks composed the melody for the chorus and laid the synthesizer part down as a guide for Collins, intending to delete it later but leaving it in after realizing it sounded cool.

Following the departure of guitarist Steve Hackett in 1977, Genesis released this 1978 album as a three piece. Apparently they were not interested in replacing Steve and instead filled the hole with tons of synthesizers. Specifically, Tony had just purchased a new Polymoog synthesizer and it's fantastic tones can be heard all over the album. In addition, Mike added six-string guitar parts along with some rather nice leads (he actually does a great job). Although the band members themselves feel that this album has not aged as well as the others from this period, I have to admit that I like it quite a lot.

And Then There Were Three marks a point where musical styles such as British symphonic pop are being embraced, although the sheer virtuosity that attracted me to the band is still present, albeit in a somewhat reduced form (tracks range from 3-7 minutes). For example, the opening track Down and Out is in 5/8 and Phil's thunderous drum part on this piece is especially intricate, not to mention Tony's remarkable synth solo. In fact, this piece was so difficult to play that they soon dropped it from the live set. Other favorite tracks that feature classic Genesis songwriting (think Tony Banks here) include Deep in the Motherlode, The Lady Lies, and especially Burning Rope. At the other end of the spectrum are several softer pieces including the synthesizer heavy Many too Many (which is a favorite), the romantic smash hit Follow You, Follow Me, and Say it's Alright Joe, which is a bit too maudlin for my liking, but is still good nonetheless. I guess it is worth noting that most of the pieces are Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford solo pieces - very little effort went into group composition, which they would return to on the Duke album (1980).

With respect to this remastered version it features good sound quality and includes the lyrics to each song. Although Rhino has recently remastered this album (in 2007) it is a bit expensive. Moreover, some folks have commented on the severe compression used on the 2007 remaster of ...And Then There Were Three.

While this album pretty much gets slammed left, right, and center by most of my fellow proggers, I feel that there is enough of the "Genesis thing" going on that it makes for very enjoyable listening. Recommended along with the superb Duke album (1980).

As many reviewers have pointed out, a Genesis remaster series is a welcomed endeavor. Both music and artwork go hand in hand with this group, and bringing both up to speed seemed timely. I thought the 1994 remaster of "And Then There Were Three" was a great improvement over its unsweetened predecessor. Nothing seemed too overdone. And Then There Were...these!
Many people have commented on the overuse (or even simply the use at all)of compression when remastering the Genesis catalog. I have to agree fully that to my ears, this is a sonic hatchet job. Genesis is a band with wide dynamics, soft passages lead to swells, delicate acoustic guitars and pianos give way to deep resonating bass pedals, etc. What we have with the remasters, at least with Wind And Wuthering & ATTWT, is a horrid "evening out" sensation. It is a crunching of signal pushing the limits at the upper ceiling before zero, and bringing up any soft passages to a numbing "average" on par with louder passages. Case in point: "Burning Rope". There is a passage where a dissonant instrumental section leads to a swell before succumbing to a more melodic finish. On the '94 release it is wonderful. On this release, there is really no crescendo, just a loud start and a loud finish. All sense of dynamics are lost. I know there was remixing involved on all tracks, so that could play into it but those who know the original will hear it right away.
Some improvements? Ok, the vocals are more pronounced (probably by eq in the 4k range), more elements of the mixes stand out, and there is a clarity to it all. Having said that, I would trade it in an instant for a more tasteful use of compression. Loud is not always better.
Listen to "Snowbound" and the way the drums are now overly processed and beefed up. Again, a remix result, but it loses something to my ears, compared to the '94 issue.
The net result of these reissues leave me with an uneasy feeling of having to choose. I like the fact that added clarity in the vocals now exist on the remasters, but I ended up keeping my 1994 copy for "Wind" and "ATTWT". I suppose if I am in a mood for a Genesis album on steroids, I can pop in the new guys, but I think I will more likely dip into the 94 releases and cut my losses. (hearing losses?)
Any thoughts?

This is their first album as a trio, hence the title. Their guitarist, Steve Hackett, had left because he felt not enough of his music was getting on the albums. He had already had some success with his first album, 'The Voyage of the Acolyte', and left Genesis to continue his solo career.

Unfortunately, with his departure a lot of the magic sound that had made Genesis a great band had also departed. Many point to the departure of Gabriel as being the major turning point. And it is true to an extent, because with the departure of Gabriel, the lyrics were never quite as good, and the emotional power of Gabriel's voice was also lost forever. But Steve Hackett's epic mysticism was still with Genesis, and I believe he comes from the same place musically as Peter Gabriel does. Lose one, and the magic is still there in some form, but lose two, and you wind up with trio Genesis.

So what is trio Genesis? Keyboardist Tony Banks, who had been the principle composer, was always the brains of the group. Guitarist Mike Rutherford's strength lied more in the melodic aspect. And drummer/singer Phil Collins brought a technical proficiency to the band that was unmatched by most other drummers out there, and he also had a very good singing voice. But without Steve Hackett and Peter Gabriel, the band lost a lot of its heart and mystical sound. As a result, this album has a very stripped down sound.

There is very little acoustic playing on this album. No more classical guitar pieces, and very little piano. Tony also stopped using the mellotron, which had a very medieval and eary sound that really made the previous music sound truly epic. The band were obviously moving away from the long epics in favor of shorter, more to the point songs. As a result the stuff that made the music interesting is gone, and replaced by just the bare bones.

Songs like Down and Out, The Ballad of Big, and The Lady Lies are great examples of this stripped down sound done very well. The playing and technical ability of these three is, as always, top notch, and it shows on this album, in particular on Down and Out and The Lady Lies. Snowbound is also a nice soft song, reminiscent Ripples..., but without the beautiful piano interlude. And Follow You Follow Me is also nice song that proved to be their first #1 hit.

The problem with the album is that it is too much of the same. By stripping down the songs, they stripped away a lot of what made the old stuff so interesting to listen to. By the time you get to side two of the album, the album's synth dominated sound is already starting to get wearisome. Without a break from the electronics into more traditional sounds, it simply becomes too synthetic sounding, and not as organic and emotional as their older stuff.

Nevertheless, it's hard to say this is a bad album. In fact, it works very well in small doses. Some tracks, namely Many to Many, Undertow and even the minor hit, Say it's Alright Joe, are somewhat weak and although not bad, feel more like filler. The rest, while ranging from fair to really good, suffer by being on the same album. It's too much of the same synth textures, and it grows tiring.

I'm going to step in and give a review of the Super Audio version of this recording. It's a nice package that restores the original LP artwork to the CD booklet, which wasn't done in all previous versions. The box includes a CD/SACD multichannel disc as well as a video disc containing a multichannel DVD Audio version of the album plus some video extras in the North American NTSC format. The 2007 interviews with the band members are quite revealing, including some comments from Steve Hackett on why the four became three.

At least they had a sense of humor about it! At the time of its release, And Then There Were Three got a fair amount of criticism. Even some fans said the album took few risks, with the L.A. Times commenting that the band could have "written this stuff in their sleep."

But this record in particular had a strange effect on listeners, which I recall from reading letters in music magazines at the time. The sound producer David Hentschel (he previously engineered Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road) achieved was dense, thick as London fog, with a narrow stereo stage producing a late '70's version of the old "wall o' sound." All that melody and rhythm packed into 50-plus minutes was exhausting to listen to, with the catchy, stripped-down "Follow You, Follow Me" at the end serving as a light dessert. Looking back, it's probable that this recording helped launch later groups like Lush and Cocteau Twins that favored layered sonics.

Nick Davis' multichannel remix opens up the Hentschel mix considerably. This new version loses just a little of the recording's original character, but much is gained as the music becomes both grander and more intimate. Heard through a multichannel system, Phil Collins' voice sounds more out front and clear. I thought it might be too bright at first listen, but I soon came to like the effect. Of course, your CD player factors in this.

With the individual instruments heard more clearly, songs like "Down and Out," the band's musings on the cutthroat nature of the record business, gain considerable power. And we can finally hear Genesis' songs about the American West in their wide-screen glory as Mike Rutherford's guitar on "Deep in the Motherload" just comes storming out of the sound field. "Ballad of Big" really sounds big now as Jim and his men become legends the hard way.

For me, the most appealing songs on And Then... Three are the ones that use dynamics to reflect their characters' shifting emotional states. "Burning Rope" does this well, and the recording allows Tony Banks' unusual and affecting keyboard sounds to be heard with greater depth and clarity. He does his own synthesizer programming, unlike many bands of the era, and obviously takes time to develop particular sounds that suit the songs.

I always thought that the song "Say It's Alright, Joe" was kind of a throwaway. In multichannel sound, you feel a lot closer to the story. You might be in the barroom with Joe and his down-on-his-luck customer as Tony tinkles the piano keys. As the old guy slips into a reverie, the song takes on a thin, compressed sound. "The sky was in ruins and the lights were all shining on me and on you..." I didn't hear that effect on the original mix.

Hearing this SACD on my budget Sony SACD player and Harman Kardon stereo allowed me to hear this recording in a new way. I'm not that interested in going back to David Hentschel's version again, which is really all you can ask of a 21st century remix.

The end of the Beginning? Or the beginning of the End? Maybe a little of both. Being an AVID fan of earlier Genesis, one can truly ascertain that though it's not quite as 'proggish' as earlier efforts (try going back to 'Trespass'...pre-Phil Collins!), it's not remotely as poppy as 'Invisible Touch' & 'We Can't Dance'...but Follow You, Follow Me was a great ka-chinger, and a winding sign of things to come. There is some extraordinarily beautiful keyboard work here, lush & lavish with layered 9th & 13th chords that make one's heart soar...as Tony's magic touch usually does. Phil was probably 27 or 28 at the time, and still not 'well-sung' as of yet having only a few years to front the band vocally...he sounds better and better "...with each passing year", and this album is no exception. As I understand it, he was going through some rocky personal times with a strained marriage from months of touring...I duly commend his efforts (not to mention his no-less-than-amazing percussive endeavors). Mike...well, Mike is my guitar/bass/Taurus pedals mentor, me being a guitarist myself. You can hear here the style of instrumentation throughout the record that it was written by 3 guys on 3 main instruments; the guitarist using the bass pedals to cover the low end. It is a wonderful record, not to mention somewhat of a 'gutsy' songwriting approach that was new to band members and fans alike.

For anyone new to this band, it is a good pivotal point in the bands 30-year history...if you like what you hear, you would probably like much of their past and future efforts from this standpoint. There's a meticulous charm that's captured here never to be repeated again. Enjoy.......

This was very much a transitional album for Genesis, and it shows. Some of the songs -- "Undertow," "Burning Rope," the lovely "Follow You Follow Me" -- are as gorgeous as anything else in the band's enormous catalogue, but a good many others seem underwritten, overplayed or forgettable. Genesis recorded this album quickly, and did so in the wake of guitarist Steve Hackett's departure, so it's understandable that the album doesn't measure up to early masterpieces like "Foxtrot" or their later self-titled collection of pop gems. For new listeners, this wouldn't be the first -- or even the fourth or fifth -- Genesis album that I'd recommend, but it does have three or four excellent songs that make it worth coming back to.

What happens when you take two virtuosos out of a band? In general, that band has no air left to go. But if the name of that band is Genesis, then the answer is: there are three virtuosos left.

Once Peter Gabriel left the band in 1975, people feared that the singing part could not be substituted by anyone. Phil Collings proved everyone wrong.

Next in line to leave the band would be guitarrist Steve Hackett, in 1976. This time, the guitar would suffer, as Mike Rutherford, though good is never as good as Hackett. But album-wise, the album that the remaining trio recorded is one of incredible beauty where the solo capacities of the members become very obvious.

Probably not the best 'new era' Genesis album (my vote for that one goes to 1980's 'Duke') but a very good album though.