Customer Reviews

There We Stood, Here We Stand : Eleven Lutherans Rediscover Their Catholic Roots

5 star:		(9)
4 star:		(2)
3 star:		(2)
2 star:		(2)
1 star:		(1)

 

 

A few years back British Airways had an arresting ad slogan for travel to England: "Come home America, all is forgiven." Along with Pope John Paul II offering apologies on behalf of the Church, Rome has been echoing this slogan to the Reformation churches. In this book, eleven Lutherans tell why they took up the offer. This book differs somewhat from the general interest, dumbed-down sort of conversion story. Few of these writers would sum up with the line from "Amazing Grace," "I once was blind, but now I see." These stories are far more involved and candid than you would expect. They give interesting insights into the differences and commonalities in the various Lutheran bodies, and the book may be of interest to Catholics wondering how Protestants view their communion. Most of all, however, this book will be of interest to Protestants of various stripes who share a lively interest in spiritual things and will find echoes in these writers' accounts of their own life stories.

...nor even a Catholic. Anybody with an interest in the Catholic faith and why people from Protestant denominations 'cross the Tiber' will find this title on par with other great apologetics books in print.

There We Stood chronicles eleven former Lutherans -- including a few female pastors -- on their spiritual journeys and how issues such as the Lutheran church's stance on abortion and how Martin Luther's original teachings differ from that of the church today affected their decisions to convert.

I enjoyed reading especially the stories of the female pastors, all of whom were fully aware that their ordinations would not transfer over to the Catholic faith as they might for a male pastor, even a married one. To read how they decided Christ in His Church was more important was truly inspiring, and they prove that women do have an important place in the Church, serving through various other ministries.

All in all There We Stood is a well-written collection of essays and a wonderful testimony for the Catholic faith. It's been said the Church's greatest promoters are converts, and this book proves that theory.

Here are chronicled the conversion stories of 11 former Lutherans to the Catholic faith, as told by the converts themselves. This new compilation adds to the growing collection of conversion stories that have increased in popularity in the past several years. This collection is unique, however, in that it focuses on Lutheran converts, a population that is surprisingly not well documented in other conversion collections.

This volume's contribution lies in what some of its writers reveal so clearly--that modern Lutheranism is so radically departed from even basic Christian teachings, not to mention its departure from what Luther taught or intended. It is this that comes through most clearly in these stories. Many of the converts' eyes were opened when they looked at what has become of the Protestant Reformation-a myriad of splinter groups, even among professed Lutherans, that in many cases resemble little of their namesake's own beliefs or ideals.

The book explodes the conventional myth that says there is very little difference between contemporary Lutheranism and Catholicism. Were that true, conversion would have been either far easier for these men and women or simply not necessary at all. The stories reveal that it is precisely because of these differences that the Holy Spirit led these people where He has.

The book includes the stories of six former Lutheran pastors, one of whom is now a Catholic priest, and four of whom are women. The female pastors had the additional task of crossing the divide of modern feminism to embrace a faith that, in radical feminist circles, is often criticized as oppressive to women. Their tales are eye-opening and revealing of the power of truth.

The converts explore the depth of many of the theological issues that sparked the Reformation and that divide Lutherans and Catholics today. The Lutheran reader will gain a fresh sense of contemporary Lutheran thought; a non-Lutheran will learn much about the development of Lutheran theology and the history of the American Lutheran Church in the past several decades. In particular one learns of the variety of Lutheran synods and the critical divisions caused by the Seminex crisis in the mid-1970's. Catholic readers cannot help but gain a new appreciation for their faith. The reader will also delight in seeing among the influences on these converts' lives such notable personages as G.K. Chesterton, John Paul II, Al Kresta, Mother Angelica, and Rev. Neuhaus, himself a convert from Lutheranism.

In a final helpful offering, Drake includes several appendices containing the 1999 Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification and several related statements and responses. This valuable addition proves the book to be an important resource for students and practitioners of true ecumenical dialogue between Lutherans and Catholics.

This text proposes itself as a survey of Lutherans who have swum the Tiber, which is in fact a valid description. It makes no particular mention, however, of the type of Lutherans that are making this move... and what I notice from the selection of writers is they are a very poor representation of confessional Lutheran theology or practice. Without seeking to be overly negative, I think it fair to point out that the people represented in these short stories either have a woefully poor understanding of what confessional Lutheran theology states, have experienced abuse or mistreatment in their Lutheran communion (akin to that which is also found in the Roman communion,) or they were so significantly emotionally or theologically unbalanced to begin with, that they may have just as easily landed with Rev. Moon than with the Romans.

As a Lutheran, I have extremely high regard for Roman Catholic thought and practice, but I would not recommend this book as a reasonable reflection of either. While I enjoy the EWTN broadcasts from time to time, this book references that radio production in an almost fervent manner... and this book comes across as another one-sided apologetic for why Romans are perfect and every other Christian is horribly erring, without a lick of substantiation to very grandios and controverted claims.

I would much rather have read a work that seriously considered the positives and negatives of both Lutheran and Roman communions, and made even-handed analysis of the situations that lead well balanced, well informed Lutherans to Rome... or vice versa. This book struck me as blatant propaganda, and the editors as profiteering off the weakness of a few Lutherans who neither knew themselves nor their confessions.

I should have discerned this from the cover art, but I try not to judge a book by its cover... in this case, perhaps I should have.

In this book Timothy Drake, features correspondent of the National Catholic Register and and Associate Editor of Envoy magazine relates the stories of eleven people who journeyed from Lutheran backgrounds to full communion with the Catholic Church. This is no mere exercise in polemics but a collection of personal stories from people who went through a profound experience in their lives, accounts of people who have encountered truth and the changes that result from that encounter; changes that affects all aspects of human life. These testimonies contain conflict, pain, joy, anger and mysticism. As one reads these accounts one becomes engrossed in the experiences.

This book is edifying on a number of levels. One learns a great deal about the Lutheran perspective and the nature of the split with the Catholic Church. Many of these stories outline the premises of Lutheranism and thus the roots of Protestantism in general. On another level it offers a glimpse into the nature of the spiritual journey and how unique each is. On yet another level it serves as a wake up call to those who in our day may be forgetting to take care of their own souls. Thus there is inspiration and reproof in these stories and it is easy to discover insights into how to deepen our own faith.

(...) There is no triumphalism in the work but an honest look into the shortcomings of Lutheranism. We learn what the principles of sola scriptura and sola fide (Scripture alone and salvation by faith alone) mean in the Lutheran community and probe the weaknesses of these principles as the converts seek truth and look for an authority to establish that truth. Particularly interesting are the various accounts of how the different splits within the Lutheran community occured and how they led to problems concerning how to establish authority to define doctrine. (...) Todd Van Kampen, Patricia Ireland, and Jennifer Ferrara, illustrate the problems that arise when people and groups use private judgement and when there is no final and divinely constituted authority to define what Christians believe.

Which brings up another point. In many of these stories people came into the Church because it affirmed truths that they already either intuited or believed. Abortion is one example. Jennifer Ferrara rejected the E.L.C.A. because it had a liberal attitude towards abortion, which she knew was against Christian teachings. Similarly with Anthony Gerring, who gives a devastating indictment of the position of the L.C.M.S. on abortion and gives an excellent expose on the issue of contraception and the teachings of Margaret Sanger (this alone is worth the price of the book). Others were dissatisfied with Lutheran teachings on the Eucharist. (...) In these cases they saw that the Lutheran foundation was inadequate while the authority of the Catholic Church stretched back all the way to the Apostolic community itself. Patricia Ireland states that "the Catholic Church alone offered the wisdom of two thousand years, positively expressed in the consistent teachings of the Apostles' successors."(p. 92) For the writers it was the clear and authoritative teachings of the Church which drew them.

One important point that a number of these stories point out is that conversion is an on going process, not a one-time thing. (...) The individuals who are the subjects of these testimonies had already decided to follow God's will while they were still in the Lutheran community. Some converted to Lutheranism as a first step in their spiritual journey. When they converted to Catholicism they were merely continuing the same journey they had already set out upon. We who are in the Faith should keep this in mind in our dealings with non-Catholics. Today's opponent may be tomorrow's brother or sister in the Faith.

As stated already, these conversions were not merely intellectual exercises. The writers knew that the religious life is more than an intellectual assent but a way of life. Their conversion to Catholicism must be seen in the context of their love and relationship with God. It requires a process involving the whole person, heart and soul. Each saw in Catholicism the fullness of the truth they sought and the means, through the sacraments, liturgy, and teaching authority, the means to deepen their love affair with God.

One small criticism of the book is that the story of Todd Van Kampen might have been better placed at the beginning because he explains exactly what the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is and how and why it was founded. The chapter helps the reader to understand the nature of the Lutheran community in America and the conflicts brought out in the other accounts. But, again, this is a minor flaw. On the whole this book succeeds in its purpose. (...)

It is in the experiences related in these stories that we see and appreciate how the Catholic Church is, by God's grace, the elect Vessel which contains the fullness of truth for the salvation of all (without prejudice to the truths contained in other denominations). It is all well and good for intellectuals to have polemical discussions on these matters, but we really see the power of the living God when we see people from various walks of life making life altering changes due to their encounter with Truth (Jn 8:32). We see that in order to be more fully human they had to follow the truth wherever it led them, just as we all must. (...)

One of the cool things about being a canon lawyer is that I get to hang around with Catholic writers and apologists. I enjoy this blessing because I read a lot of their books, and so the opportunity to sit down with them and talk is always a wonderful experience. Now one of my favorite people is Tim Drake. He's really laid back and always has something interesting to say about his conversion to the Catholic Church. He's also one of the nicest people I've met in the Catholic apologetics movement, and so I was thrilled when he sent me an autographed copy of this book.

Now the past decade has brought numerous collections of conversion stories. The typical story usually involves a former Protestant sharing with the reader how Our Lord awakened him to the fullness of Catholic Truth. These collections testify to the fact that, soul by soul, the Holy Spirit is working in the hearts of baptized Christians to restore unity to Christ's Church. In such a way, I am reminded ofCardinal Ratzinger's exhortation that the Catholic Church does not seek the dissolution of the Lutheran confession, but rather its fulfillment in returning to Catholic unity.

This is what makes Tim Drake's collection so unique and compelling. It is the first collection of conversion stories devoted entirely to Catholic converts from the Lutheran tradition. As Tim Drake explains in his introduction, there is something different about being a Lutheran, in that Martin Luther is the father of the Protestant Reformation. This seems quite in keeping with Cardinal Ratzinger's view in the latter's work "The Principles of Catholi Theology" from which I previously paraphrased. Therefore, I find myself in agreement with Marcus Grodi that this book goes to the heart of the Protestant Reformation.

The prospect of Lutherans rediscovering their Catholic heritage is of interest to both Catholics and Protestants alike. On the one hand, it challenges the Protestant to question and re-examine the fundamental tenets of the Protestant Reformation in light of apostolic Tradition. On the other hand, it forces Catholics to more seriously treasure the Church founded by Christ upon the rock of St. Peter. For these and other reasons, this book should be read alongside the Cardinal Ratzinger's aforementioned book.

In the end, Tim Drake provides an important contribution to Catholic evangelism in the 21st Century, and I highly recommend this work for this reason.

Tim Drake presents us with the conversion testimony of eleven former Lutherans who found their way home to Rome. I found the stories extremely interesting, having made the same move myself in 1989. Since most of the conversion stories published in recent years seem to be by former Evangelicals and Calvinists, it was very meaningful to hear others coming from Lutheranism, which has a theology distinct from those groups. I was especially impressed with the former female pastors who had to give up their ministries to enter the Church. Talk about commitment to finding the truth at any cost! The orthodoxy of the writers is generally very high. There were one or two places where I partially disagreed with certain assertions made, generally concerning (can you guess?) faith vs. works. Stylistically, the individual stories were pretty well written; they kept my attention and were related in language understandable to non-clergy. I highly recommend this book to Lutherans considering conversion, to Catholics who have converted from Lutheranism, and to anyone interested in apologetics and conversion stories.

It is not at all what I expected, it is much better. I expected to find stories of persons bitter at where they had been. Instead I found generally content, happy and joyful arrivals. They remained fond of the path they had taken, they were at peace. Yet they remembered and embraced their past friends and past path through a Christian faith. I found the stories touching. They described the plight of concerned believers searching for truth. They represented the full cross section of Lutherans, liberal to conservative (if there is such a thing) and most between. Each had his/her own special questions to be answered. I could not put the book down, the stories reminded me of my own search.

There We Stood... contains some very touching stories of Lutherans who found depth and meaning by leaving the Lutheran Church and becoming Roman Catholic. I purchased and read this book because I too have considered leaving the ELCA in favor of Rome. However, the book, while being very well written and edited, convinced me that the ELCA is the right place for me. ...

While it was great to read these stories of renewed faith and hope, I was saddened that the book was not more substantive in dealing with the ongoing dialogue between the Church of Rome and the Lutheran Church. The fact of the matter is that we are not as far apart from one another as many people think. Instead of encouraging "conversion" from one to the other, why not value our distinctions while praying the prayer of Jesus that "[We] all be one"?

In conclusion, I would encourage Lutheran pastors and seminarians (such as myself) to read this book. It does help flesh out some of the questions and concerns our Lutheran parishioners may have, and can assist us in addressing those questions.

Excellent and rapid service. The description of the book was accurate. I would be delighted to use this seller again.