• Destroys one of the major barriers for faith seekers: alleged long ages for the earth • Provides scientifi c evidences that correlate to biblical history and time-lines • Can be used as an apologetic; many shun the faith because of alleged scientifi c “facts” • A sensational answer to “old earth” critics • A powerful book written in plain language This long-awaited book shatters the famed dating methods employed by evolutionists to cast doubt on the veracity of the Bible and its chronology of earth history. Radiometric dating is one of the linchpins of evolutionary education today. By dating the soil in which fossils are found to very long ages, evolutionists undermine faith in Genesis as the true documentary of the history of the universe. When people are told that a dinosaur bone has been determined to be tens of millions of years old, that obviously doesn’t square with the biblical record of man being created on day 6 with the land animals. But DeYoung now demonstrates that Christians no longer have to puzzle over this glaring contradiction. A must-have for the serious Bible student, Thousands . . . not Billions will bolster the faith of many.
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About the Author
Don DeYoung is chairman of the Physical Science Department, Grace College, Winona Lake, Indiana, teaching physics, astronomy, and mathematics. He is a graduate of Michigan Tech University (B.S., M.S., physics), Iowa State University (Ph.D, physics), and Grace Seminary (M.Div.) His writings have appeared in many periodicals, and he’s written 12 books on Bible science, including object lessons for children. He and his wife, Sally, have three married daughters.
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Don DeYoung (Ph.D., physics) chairs the science and math department at Grace College, Winona Lake, Indiana. His writing interests include clarifying technical topics including the creationist worldview. Several of his books feature a Question-Answer format with concise discussion of popular issues. Don also writes science object lessons for children; his website is DiscoveryofDesign.com. Don's favorite writers include Louis L'Amour, Garrison Keillor, and Mark Twain. Don enjoys backpacking, fishing, running, speaking on the Bible and science, and travel with his wife Sally.
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Most Helpful Customer Reviews
119 of 135 people found the following review helpful
Format:Paperback|Amazon Verified Purchase
So, let me just start off by saying the following:
1. Young-earth creationists will like this book and think that it shows the unreliability of modern dating methods.
2. Evolutionists will dismiss it immediately.
3. Open-minded people who are perhaps on the fence on the issue of the earth's age will benefit from the point of view and the challenges the RATE group's 8 years of research present.
It is clear that the reviews so far of 'Thousands not Billions' support my hypothesis.
Now, on to the book.
Here's a list of the chapters:
Ch 1: A Brief History of Radiation Studies
Ch 2: Overview of Radioisotope Dating
Ch 3: Carbon-14 Dating
Ch 4: Helium Retention in Zircon Crystals
Ch 5: Radiohalos in Granite
Ch 6: Fission Tracks in Zircons
Ch 7: Discordant Radioisotope Dates
Ch 8: Radioisotope Dating Case Studies
Ch 9: Theories of Accelerated Nuclear Decay
Ch 10: A Proper Reading of Genesis 1:1-2:3
Ch 11: RATE Conclusions
Quotes from Ch 11, with summaries by me:
"For some years there has been a growing realization that carbon-14 atoms are found where they are not expected." -Pg 175
Since C-14 only has a half-life of 5,730 years, there should not be any measurable amount of it in substances over 100,000 years old. However, measurable amounts of C-14 have been found in what are assumed "ancient" materials, such as coal and diamonds. Diamonds I think are the most significant, since they are assumed to be like a billion years old, and they are also the hardest natural substance on earth, so they know there isn't any contamination in the system. So the fact that there exists carbon-14 in diamonds that are supposedly a billion years old should raise some flags to people.
"The New Mexico zircons studied by the RATE team have a radioisotope age of 1.5 billion years. If this were true, then the internal helium atoms should long ago have escaped from the zircons. Instead, however, the RATE scientists and others find high concentrations of helium still present inside the zircon crystals." -Pg 176
Zircons, unlike diamonds, are not a closed system, and helium atoms that are produced in the zircons escape over time into the surroundings. However, the helium should no longer be present if the zircons are really a billion years old or older.
Another important aspect of the RATE research is the discordance among results when multiple dating methods are used on the same rock. Several different dating methods should all give the same date for a specific rock if they really are accurate measures. However, RATE has found that very different dates are given for a rock, depending on which method is used.
Another thing that's really interesting is that RATE team had the Mt. Ngauruhoe site in New Zealand dated using several different dating techniques. The site formed only a few decades ago, but dates ranging from 0.27 million years (K-Ar) all the way up to 3,908 million years (Pb-Pb) were determined for the rock. This should also show the amazing unreliability of radiometric dating methods. If dating methods are shown to be grossly inaccurate for rocks of known age, how can we trust them for rocks of unknown age?
I also really liked the chapter on interpreting the creation account of Genesis 1:1-2:3. It is a popular view among Christians that the creation account is poetry and not narrative. RATE did some analysis of the Hebrew verb forms of both poetry and narrative all throughout the Old Testament, and the results were overwhelmingly in favor of Genesis 1 being narrative, based on the type of verb forms found in the chapter. (Poetry generally uses imperfect, while narrative uses preterit.)
Anyway, I would have liked to see a little more explanation/elaboration of research. But I do realize that this book is meant to be for the general public. RATE has produced two technical volumes from their 8 years of research that I think people who are advanced in science will benefit from more.
Note: I think it's worth noting that the RATE team contracted out the dating of the materials in their research to well-respected professional laboratories, so the idea that their data is not reliable is totally ridiculous and unfounded.
1. Young-earth creationists will like this book and think that it shows the unreliability of modern dating methods.
2. Evolutionists will dismiss it immediately.
3. Open-minded people who are perhaps on the fence on the issue of the earth's age will benefit from the point of view and the challenges the RATE group's 8 years of research present.
It is clear that the reviews so far of 'Thousands not Billions' support my hypothesis.
Now, on to the book.
Here's a list of the chapters:
Ch 1: A Brief History of Radiation Studies
Ch 2: Overview of Radioisotope Dating
Ch 3: Carbon-14 Dating
Ch 4: Helium Retention in Zircon Crystals
Ch 5: Radiohalos in Granite
Ch 6: Fission Tracks in Zircons
Ch 7: Discordant Radioisotope Dates
Ch 8: Radioisotope Dating Case Studies
Ch 9: Theories of Accelerated Nuclear Decay
Ch 10: A Proper Reading of Genesis 1:1-2:3
Ch 11: RATE Conclusions
Quotes from Ch 11, with summaries by me:
"For some years there has been a growing realization that carbon-14 atoms are found where they are not expected." -Pg 175
Since C-14 only has a half-life of 5,730 years, there should not be any measurable amount of it in substances over 100,000 years old. However, measurable amounts of C-14 have been found in what are assumed "ancient" materials, such as coal and diamonds. Diamonds I think are the most significant, since they are assumed to be like a billion years old, and they are also the hardest natural substance on earth, so they know there isn't any contamination in the system. So the fact that there exists carbon-14 in diamonds that are supposedly a billion years old should raise some flags to people.
"The New Mexico zircons studied by the RATE team have a radioisotope age of 1.5 billion years. If this were true, then the internal helium atoms should long ago have escaped from the zircons. Instead, however, the RATE scientists and others find high concentrations of helium still present inside the zircon crystals." -Pg 176
Zircons, unlike diamonds, are not a closed system, and helium atoms that are produced in the zircons escape over time into the surroundings. However, the helium should no longer be present if the zircons are really a billion years old or older.
Another important aspect of the RATE research is the discordance among results when multiple dating methods are used on the same rock. Several different dating methods should all give the same date for a specific rock if they really are accurate measures. However, RATE has found that very different dates are given for a rock, depending on which method is used.
Another thing that's really interesting is that RATE team had the Mt. Ngauruhoe site in New Zealand dated using several different dating techniques. The site formed only a few decades ago, but dates ranging from 0.27 million years (K-Ar) all the way up to 3,908 million years (Pb-Pb) were determined for the rock. This should also show the amazing unreliability of radiometric dating methods. If dating methods are shown to be grossly inaccurate for rocks of known age, how can we trust them for rocks of unknown age?
I also really liked the chapter on interpreting the creation account of Genesis 1:1-2:3. It is a popular view among Christians that the creation account is poetry and not narrative. RATE did some analysis of the Hebrew verb forms of both poetry and narrative all throughout the Old Testament, and the results were overwhelmingly in favor of Genesis 1 being narrative, based on the type of verb forms found in the chapter. (Poetry generally uses imperfect, while narrative uses preterit.)
Anyway, I would have liked to see a little more explanation/elaboration of research. But I do realize that this book is meant to be for the general public. RATE has produced two technical volumes from their 8 years of research that I think people who are advanced in science will benefit from more.
Note: I think it's worth noting that the RATE team contracted out the dating of the materials in their research to well-respected professional laboratories, so the idea that their data is not reliable is totally ridiculous and unfounded.
56 of 73 people found the following review helpful
By Virginia Tom
Format:Paperback
The chief complaint against this book seems to be "...This book is another example of TRUE scientific theory mixed with UNTESTED hypothetical ideas (somewhat like "bait and switch"). The end result is that the author claims to prove his ideas when in fact the untested hypotheses are still untested."
I would say the same for evolutionary theory since TRUE SCIENTIFIC METHODS CANNOT BE APPLIED IN BOTH CASES. No human being was there during creation or evolutionary beginnings to observe the actual event, so we cannot test and observe either hypothesis. To me, the biggest issue here is not which is the more accurate theory. But rather, both positions cannot be solved scientifically and that it takes a measure of FAITH & a healthy dose of WORLDVIEW to believe which ever side you believe. The author of this book casts significant doubt on the VALIDITY of old earth age radioisotope dating methods which he purports to be the "lynchpin" of old earth views.
* The RATE Project tested coal beds throughout North America. They requested & received coal samples from the US Geological Dept. They received coal from the top of the coal bed and the bottom of the coal bed over many sites. You know what they found? The coal samples had the "same" (same within the sample statistics) C14 levels whether it was on the top or bottom.
* Also, they tested diamonds from nearly 100 miles within the earth. And you know what? They also had C14 in them. Diamonds are supposed to be billions of years old, one of the first minerals formed when the earth "evolved" 3.5 billion years ago; yet they have C14 in them. We have NO instrument that can measure C14 levels past 100,000 years.
* They observed that most of known fossils are found within one layer of sediment (which implies a quick, catastrophic event, a.k.a. flood)
* They discuss helium diffusion within zircons. These zircons mean something very important to geologists. And I admit, this was a little over my head since I have not taken the time to study these. But suffice it to say, the amount of helium still in rocks indicates a "younger" earth.
* They discuss all the forms of radioisotope dating and show how worldview "taints" the "scientific" principles that govern them. Also, many assume a steady state of radioactive decay, however, there is compelling evidence that shows the steady state theory is not accurate. That there may have been accelerated decay in the past and it has been slowing down (which I think aligns nicely to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics).
To me, these are the most important issues this book addresses.
I would say the same for evolutionary theory since TRUE SCIENTIFIC METHODS CANNOT BE APPLIED IN BOTH CASES. No human being was there during creation or evolutionary beginnings to observe the actual event, so we cannot test and observe either hypothesis. To me, the biggest issue here is not which is the more accurate theory. But rather, both positions cannot be solved scientifically and that it takes a measure of FAITH & a healthy dose of WORLDVIEW to believe which ever side you believe. The author of this book casts significant doubt on the VALIDITY of old earth age radioisotope dating methods which he purports to be the "lynchpin" of old earth views.
* The RATE Project tested coal beds throughout North America. They requested & received coal samples from the US Geological Dept. They received coal from the top of the coal bed and the bottom of the coal bed over many sites. You know what they found? The coal samples had the "same" (same within the sample statistics) C14 levels whether it was on the top or bottom.
* Also, they tested diamonds from nearly 100 miles within the earth. And you know what? They also had C14 in them. Diamonds are supposed to be billions of years old, one of the first minerals formed when the earth "evolved" 3.5 billion years ago; yet they have C14 in them. We have NO instrument that can measure C14 levels past 100,000 years.
* They observed that most of known fossils are found within one layer of sediment (which implies a quick, catastrophic event, a.k.a. flood)
* They discuss helium diffusion within zircons. These zircons mean something very important to geologists. And I admit, this was a little over my head since I have not taken the time to study these. But suffice it to say, the amount of helium still in rocks indicates a "younger" earth.
* They discuss all the forms of radioisotope dating and show how worldview "taints" the "scientific" principles that govern them. Also, many assume a steady state of radioactive decay, however, there is compelling evidence that shows the steady state theory is not accurate. That there may have been accelerated decay in the past and it has been slowing down (which I think aligns nicely to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics).
To me, these are the most important issues this book addresses.
83 of 117 people found the following review helpful
By Eve
Format:Paperback
I'm currently re-thinking my indoctrination into the evolution theory. I have kept science separate from my faith in God and had always believed that the earth was very old. However, recently, I have found that this belief is irreconcilable with my belief in a loving God. I had never even read any creationist literature, thinking, like most people that it is "hokum". Most of the creationist literature is unconvincing to me. However, after reading icr.org I wanted to find out more about the RATE project in detail because I was especially curious about two research projects that seemed to be convincing, the helium diffusion in zircons (helium should have long ago escaped into the atmosphere after millions of years, yet why is it still in zircon?) and the radiohalos found in rocks (has there been rapid nuclear decay in certain periods of history?) I read this book in conjunction with "Starlight and Time" by Humphreys. I realized that there are some very intelligent people who believe in a young earth and have made some major scientific contributions that will definitely have an impact on science, that is, if people would read this literature. I especially liked the paragraph that says, "Some critics have argued that the young-earth viewpoint is a hindrance to scientific progress. They claim that belief in biblical creation returns us to the dark ages of naive, pre-scientific, and false views of natural history. However, such claims are mistaken. The questioning of radioisotope dating and the geologic time scale neither stifles inquiry nor hinders sceintific progress. Instead, it serves the healthy purpose of uncovering assumptions and bias. The reappraisal of earth history also opens up entirely new areas for study and research as the RATE project has shown." I agree that the RATE project has done exactly that and this book is worthwhile reading for any scientist.
One problem that I had was statements like "The original creation from nothing, or ex nihilo in Latin, was clearly supernatural. Likewise, the theological reasons for accelerated decay and the mechanisms behind it may lie entirely beyond the limits of scientific inquiry. Still, it is of interest to apply our present knowledge of the nucleus to explore possible mechanisms for accelerated decay." The problem I have with statements like this in creationist literature, is that unsolved mysteries are commonly relegated to the "supernatural". Also in "Starlight and TIme" the author did the same thing, for the things he couldn't explain in his theory, he assumes that God stepped in and acted supernaturally and "suspended the laws of nature." I'm not sure if God would actually suspend His own laws and act beyond the scope of his own creation. I believe that everything God does is purposeful and he placed specific laws in nature that we are to obey-- I don't think he would want to confuse us by acting outside of His own laws. So I think that everything that exists should have a "reasonable" or "natural" explanation. I believe everything has a purpose and this whole universe speaks of who God is. While I do believe in the miracles of the bible and have personally experienced so many miracles (things way beyond mere chance or coincidence) I'm wondering if these events are not beyond the scope of probablility and also within the realm of scientific explanation. It may be a mistake to view things as "supernatural" which actually take place within the natural realm-- and I don't believe that Christians need to be apologetic in acknowledging the fact that yes, miracles do happen (things beyond mere chance), and yet they also have scientific explanations. In any case, these statements make creationist scientific inquiries very unconvincing to athiests. Miracles never have and never will convince the unbelievers, unless it is a miracle in which God touches a person in a very personal way. I think this is what the Intelligent Design movement does an excellent job of opening people's eyes to.
The creationists will have to approach things from all angles at once if there is any hope in collapsing the evolutionary and old earth theories, and as the book acknowledges, there is a lot more work to be done. It should have an impact on science if people are open minded enough to read it. There will also be economic impacts as a result of their research since radiohalos will help with locating certain metals and uranium. Since money is always a motive, I'm sure that scientists will have more motive into looking into this more seriously. This book in conjuction with "Starlight and Time" is a pretty convincing start in breaking down the evolutionary theory in my opinion. I'm anxious to read "Not by Chance" next.
One problem that I had was statements like "The original creation from nothing, or ex nihilo in Latin, was clearly supernatural. Likewise, the theological reasons for accelerated decay and the mechanisms behind it may lie entirely beyond the limits of scientific inquiry. Still, it is of interest to apply our present knowledge of the nucleus to explore possible mechanisms for accelerated decay." The problem I have with statements like this in creationist literature, is that unsolved mysteries are commonly relegated to the "supernatural". Also in "Starlight and TIme" the author did the same thing, for the things he couldn't explain in his theory, he assumes that God stepped in and acted supernaturally and "suspended the laws of nature." I'm not sure if God would actually suspend His own laws and act beyond the scope of his own creation. I believe that everything God does is purposeful and he placed specific laws in nature that we are to obey-- I don't think he would want to confuse us by acting outside of His own laws. So I think that everything that exists should have a "reasonable" or "natural" explanation. I believe everything has a purpose and this whole universe speaks of who God is. While I do believe in the miracles of the bible and have personally experienced so many miracles (things way beyond mere chance or coincidence) I'm wondering if these events are not beyond the scope of probablility and also within the realm of scientific explanation. It may be a mistake to view things as "supernatural" which actually take place within the natural realm-- and I don't believe that Christians need to be apologetic in acknowledging the fact that yes, miracles do happen (things beyond mere chance), and yet they also have scientific explanations. In any case, these statements make creationist scientific inquiries very unconvincing to athiests. Miracles never have and never will convince the unbelievers, unless it is a miracle in which God touches a person in a very personal way. I think this is what the Intelligent Design movement does an excellent job of opening people's eyes to.
The creationists will have to approach things from all angles at once if there is any hope in collapsing the evolutionary and old earth theories, and as the book acknowledges, there is a lot more work to be done. It should have an impact on science if people are open minded enough to read it. There will also be economic impacts as a result of their research since radiohalos will help with locating certain metals and uranium. Since money is always a motive, I'm sure that scientists will have more motive into looking into this more seriously. This book in conjuction with "Starlight and Time" is a pretty convincing start in breaking down the evolutionary theory in my opinion. I'm anxious to read "Not by Chance" next.
Most Recent Customer Reviews
5.0 out of 5 stars
Excellant book!
This book definitely shows that the Earth is only a few thousand years old. It exposes all the fallacies of radiometric dating methods and their false assumptions needed to make... Read more
Published 18 days ago by Stuart R. Anderson
5.0 out of 5 stars
Evidential Scientific Truth vs. False Paradigm Props
This book is concisely written with no fluff. You have tested evidence presented matter-of-factly. This book is for people who want to stand on reality that is as verified as... Read more
Published 3 months ago by JFKTx
4.0 out of 5 stars
A good summary for laymen
As one trained (at this point I might say "indoctrinated") in the scientific "fact" of a 14 billion year universe and the "truth" of evolutionary processes,... Read more
Published 3 months ago by Gordon Kaplan
5.0 out of 5 stars
Excellent!
Excellent book, WELL worth the read! I am certainty left far more encourage in my faith on my creator !
Published 4 months ago by Jeff Bush
1.0 out of 5 stars
Faith, not science
This is not a science book -- as the blurb says, it is a work of apologetics.
I would highly recommend instead Nature's Clocks: How Scientists Measure the Age of Almost... Read more
I would highly recommend instead Nature's Clocks: How Scientists Measure the Age of Almost... Read more
Published 7 months ago by S. D. Weitzenhoffer
5.0 out of 5 stars
What is time??
If what you were taught about time has left a splinter in your mind, this review of the scientific evidence of time metrics will help you to grasp the questions that you have... Read more
Published 12 months ago by Sojourner Knight
5.0 out of 5 stars
Incredibly important scientific research
I read this book in 2007 and am finally posting my review which I had saved on my computer way back then (for my own benefit). Read more
Published 23 months ago by Veritas
1.0 out of 5 stars
suggestions for further reading
For those interested in a readable description of radioisotope dating methods and their application to geology, evolution, and archeology I recommend "Nature's Clocks: How... Read more
Published on February 28, 2011 by arpard fazakas
5.0 out of 5 stars
True Science
This book explains how scientific data fits the young earth recorded in the Bible, not billions of years of mindless evolution. What is observable, repeatable and testable? Read more
Published on February 26, 2011 by W. davis
3.0 out of 5 stars
Good but . . .
I got this book and found it very interesting. Loved learning about how young earth proponents deal with the radiometric dating. Read more
Published on February 24, 2011 by Andrew Goodrich
Citations (learn more)
This book cites 9
books:
See all 9 books this book cites
- The Poetics of Biblical Narrative: Ideological Literature and the Drama of Reading (Indiana Studies in Biblical Literature) by Meir Sternberg in Back Matter
- John Wesley (Great Men) by Ladybird Books in Back Matter
- Isotopes: Principles and Applications by Gunter Faure in Back Matter
- The Biblical Basis for Modern Science by Henry M. Morris in Back Matter
- Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe by Steven A. Austin in Back Matter
See all 9 books this book cites
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