Customer Reviews

Thrilla in Manila

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Even after all these years, someone wants to save face for Muhammad Ali. The footage of his legs buckling in Round 11 of the first fight, and the knockdown in Round 15, seen in the HBO Special, is suppressed in this documentary and replaced by still footage. Also lost is Frazier's commentary on the punches.

Someone complained, someone pulled strings, and the HBO Special is not shown in its integral form. This is very sad.

i saw this on HBO and it was awesome so i bought it and there were a couple parts i think they edited out like when one of joe fraizer's corner men was talking about the first ali fraizer fight they cut out a hilarious climactic part. and they took out all the footage from the first fight when joe knocked ali down and replaced it with pictures. that pissed me off.

I caught a bit of this on HBO a couple months ago and wanted to see more. I got the DVD and - wow - its amazing how much this really takes you back to a different world and time. I had always been a big Ali fan because he was so good at getting out there and marketing himself but this really put a light on alot of stuff that has been swept under the rug.

Plus the physicality of the whole fight itself - how it went the full rounds and the ending - well you have to see it to know.

Wish there were more extras because Frazier comes off as such a nice guy - a bit bitter but understandably so. This is a must see ofr anyone - really the boxing is so secondary - am getting a copy for my dad for father's day.

I was 10 years old when Frazier and Clay first fought. Most (but not all) of my friends and I quickly became Frazier fans because of Ali's mouth. He was too flashy and Hollywood and full of himself. Frazier was blue-collar working-class like us. All business. And he could take any punch that Ali gave him. Not many men could do that.

And this fight...it is without question the greatest sporting event I've ever seen.

This documentary tells the story of their rivalry in a way I've never seen. It gives all the background leading up to the fight -- and why these guys almost killed each other in Manila. Some might say this documentary is basically an expose on what a scumbag Cassius Clay is.

I also understand now why Joe Frazier has never forgiven Cassius Clay for all the things he said publicly about Joe back in those days. It's because Cassius Clay has never been man enough to apologize to Joe's face, man to man. You don't apologize to a man like Joe Frazier through a newspaper article. You don't apologize for doing the things Ali did without apologizing in person, face to face, man to man. I have never liked Ali but this documentary helps me understand exactly why.

Watch this and enjoy.

Bought this as a gift thinking the main focus would be on the fight with some interviews regarding the fight, etc. To my surprise this actually turned out to be a sad documentary focusing on Joe Frazier. If you're an Ali fan, this documentary will probably change your view of him while watching, because of his emotional affect on Frazier. The bottom line is that no matter how well you like Ali, you can't help but feel sorry for Frazier. Overall, this is a good, emotional documentary. Had the right amount of fight footage and thank goodness some light/funny moments.

The stretch of history this intriguing documentary covers gives real punch to the painful story of Muhammed Ali and his rival, Joe Frazier. It was a period of national turmoil and in the case of Messrs. Ali and Frazier a turbulent rivalry that outlasted many of our national disputes. This documentary is painful and very personal. There is punishing footage as well as present day commentary on the private battles of Joe Frazier. The tendency of any filmmaker whose subject screams is rarely to pull back and give us a crisp narrative, but here he succeeds. By so doing, the personalities of both men rise to take center stage. For the viewer, this documentary is one that will not be easily forgotten. For students of documentary studies, it is essential.

Muhammad Ali is not only the greatest and most important boxer in history, he is the greatest figure in all of sports. His brazen outspoken politics, his intelligence, his wild sense of humor, a style of fighting so proficient that Bruce Lee drew inspiration from it, and most of all his willingness to go to jail and be stripped of his title and career for his personal beliefs against the Vietnam War. His legendary pre-fight antics were simply the most entertaining thing ever to happen in the world of professional sports. However you choose to look at it, Ali is The Greatest. In my opinion, the measure of a man and good sportmanship is not what is said and done prior to or even during a competition, but after. Towards the end of this recent documentary chronicling every angle of the most epic confrontation in the history of boxing, Joe Frazier's brother dials the ex-champ's voicemail for the camera to hear. Frazier's jovial voice says "My name is Smokin' Joe Frazier. Sharp as a razor. Yeah. Floating like a butterfly, stings like a bee. I'm the man that done the job. He knows, look and see. Call me. Bye, bye.'' Nearly 35 years after the fact, Frazier is still so defined by that fight and angry at his rival that his recorded cell phone greeting mockingly gloats that he is the reason Muhammad Ali now suffers from advanced Parkinson's Disease. That is just amazing to me. Frazier has gone on record many times over the years as saying that Ali has been punished by God for everything from his religious choices (Ali is a Muslim, Frazier a Baptist) to the admittedly brutal and over-the-top insults The Greatest made during their classic rivalry. As a result, I've long held a strong dislike of Frazier. But this documentary does an amazing job at summing up the champ's feelings and getting his half of the story out there. This is the best sports documentary ever made in my opinion and even non-boxing fans will likely be amazed and get the hype about The Thrilla in Manila that continues to this very day when they see it.

Looking at the sum of the events as chronicled in this doc, it's really amazing just how things played out. This particular telling of the story we've all heard or read in some form or another does a great job telling the humble story of one of the greatest boxers to ever live who has been relegated to being known as "the guy who fought Ali" while his poorly-mannered opponent gained immortality, acclaim, and blatant worship around the globe. While there are plenty of clips of Ali doing his thing here, most of the interviews are from Frazier's family and trainers and his side of the story is fleshed out better the I'd ever seen. Ali indeed pushed the envelope further with Frazier then he ever had before, utilizing racial insults like Uncle Tom and regularly calling Smokin' Joe a gorilla. I'll admit to laughing myself sick at the image of Ali clutching a small gorilla doll in one hand while rapidly punching it with the other as a prediction of the fight, but I don't think anybody would say it was a classy thing to do. The fact that the champ had personally taken Ali under his wing while he was barred from boxing didn't make Ali look too good either. And what Ali may not have realized was that the power his racial attacks on his opponent and assurances that Frazier worked for "the enemy" of black people in that time period led to Frazier's children being beaten up at school for having a perceived race traitor for a father. Things like that really put into perspective why the fight became so personal. Ali was a spectacularly funny man, but with the amount of influence he carried at that point in time one does wish he had chosen his words more carefully. And there are allegations in this doc from both camps that the words were not even Ali's own, but fed to him by the militant segregationist Nation of Islam. In one shocking moment, Ali recounts a speech he gave IN FRONT OF THE KU KLUX KLAN suggesting cooperation to eliminate interracial breeding. That really threw me for a loop. My personal hero throwing in with The Klan? If you'd told me that, I'd have called you a liar, but there it is. Forgotten moments like that are what make this documentary so amazing.

Professional boxing may have become stale and dull in recent years, but it's storied history will remain forever enthralling. Seeing Muhammad Ali in action will always be a thing of beauty, and the amazing outcome of a fight so brutal it essentially ended his career as The Greatest because he simply never recovered from the punishment he took over 14 rounds at Frazier's hands will always be talked about. Ali has recanted several times the statements made about Joe Frazier as having been purely for entertainment, but there is no forgiveness. Smokin' Joe is as bitter today as he was three decades ago and delights in the notion that his opponent's degenerative suffering could be his handiwork. You couldn't write a more compelling story then the history between these two all-time greats. This documentary is the most complete retrospective of what will always be the greatest fight of all time and whether you are a fan of boxing, Joe Frazier, or Muhammad Ali or you just want to see what all the fuss is about, you will have a great time watching this movie.

An outstanding documentary. This production does not glamorize Muhammad Ali yet, his greatness is undeniable as always. It tells an important, differently heroic story of Joe Frazier, who was a warrior and a true champion. Sadly, some of this was difficult to watch because of how candid the interviews are and how deep the rivalry, or hatred is. Whether you appreciate the Muhammad Ali legacy, the Ali/Frazier rivalry, or a fresh Joe Frazier perspective on the rivalry and the Thrilla In Manilla in particular, or just a great true story in general, add this to your collection. It is excellent.

Much has been said already about the Thrilla in Manila. Behind the hype and ballyhoo, stood two men who wanted to win at all costs. This documentary enhances the saga of the battle. For boxing fans, this is a must-watch. For Ali and Frazier fans, it is a must-have and collectible.

* WARNING: if you believe that Muhammad Ali can/could walk on water, don't read this review *

He is the greatest fighter of all times next to me.
- Muhammad Ali on Joe Frazier immediately after the Thrilla in Manila

Although I had already seen a number of boxing matches on tv by that point, it was Muhammad Ali-Joe Frazier III AKA the "Thrilla in Manila" and its buildup that made me a "hardcore" boxing fan. This was due to my admiration of Frazier's quiet "I let my actions speak for me" dignity and his ferocious, straight-ahead fighting style, which I identified with (like Joe, I was short, shorter than my schoolyard opponents and, consequently, tried to work my way inside during fistfights and then bang away in close - it would be a couple of years before I made my jab the centerpiece of my offense) and to my admiration of Ali's mental and physical toughness, his speed of hand and foot ('tho he had lost a "step" by that point), his confidence and brashness, and what I then viewed to be Ali's intelligence and wittiness*. However, even though I was an outspoken, obnoxious, wise-ass myself, even then, as a gradeschooler, I was cognizant that Ali's dubbing of Frazier as "the gorilla" was way below the belt (up to that point, the monikers that Ali hung on opponents were based on his opinion of their fighting styles and abilities, not their physical appearance). Nonetheless, I still thought more or less highly of the former Cassius Clay - more as a fighter than as a person - but was pulling for Frazier to win the fight, largely because I felt sorry for him for the drubbing that he had taken from George Foreman two years earlier. And, as it would turn out, the fight would prove all the pre-fight hype had been justified. And then some. Which is why we're still interested in this fight almst 35 years later.
(* - I say "what I THEN viewed to be Ali's intelligence and wittiness" because it wasn't very long before I realized that his intelligence and wit were greatly overrated: I began to notice that Ali spoke with a certain cadence whenever he went off on one of his diatribes or discourses and, when interrupted, would often continue with what he had been saying as if he had not been stopped, which made me realize that these utterances weren't off-the-top-of-the-head speeches, but actually ORATIONS i.e. PREPARED and well-REHEARSED speeches. Indeed, in the years immediately after the Thrilla, when the brain damage that he had already suffered gradually manifested itself more and more, Ali would often repeat, almost verbatim, many of the orations that he had delivered years earlier [and with the same cadence] - aptly demonstrating that they HAD been well-rehearsed - and, by the time of his retirement from the ring, he increasingly had a habit of repeating the same diatribes over and over again during a conversation. Of course, when he ACTUALLY had to speak off the top of his head on a subject that he was not fully prepped to discuss, Ali demonstrated that he not only wasn't especially intelligent, but also was not very articulate - see, for example, the footage of his argument with British "tv personality" David Frost as to the meaning of the word "gentile". As for his so-called rapier wit and knack for turning phrases, we all know now that many of his most famous and contraversial staetments were fed to him by his resident "witch doctor", Bundini Brown, by members of the Black Muslim heirarchy, etc.)

All in all, this DVD does a good job of providing the background story to the Ali-Frazier rivalry, bringing the action in the ring "to life", and providing subtext and context, but, aside from a story about Ali firing a starter's pistol at Frazier's balcony, there isn't much new here for those already familiar with the "Louisville Lip" and "Smokin' Joe". Although it's nice to see and hear someone relate, for example, the fact that Ali had wanted his trainer, Angelo Dundee, to cut off his gloves in the rest period before the 15th and final round of the Thrilla and seeing the footage of Ali stating that he once spoke at a Ku Klux Klan rally, it's not as though these stories hadn't already "made the rounds" (on the printed page). About the only things that make this DVD very interesting - to hardcore boxing fans - are that we get to see how Frazier is faring as of 2008/9, that we hear Frazier provide commentary about the fight as he watches the footage, and that this is a very unusual boxing film/program in that it is presented from Frazier's point of view rather than Ali's (the only film or tv program - that I can recall at this moment - that covers the Ali-Frazier bouts AND is Smokin' Joe-centric is the Fox Sportsnet piece on him as part of the BEYOND THE GLORY series, which complements THRILLA IN MANILA nicely, so catch it - I also recommend that one read Mark Kram's GHOSTS OF MANILA: THE FATEFUL BLOOD FEUD BETWEEN MUHAMMAD ALI AND JOE FRAZIER, which 'tho flawed [my Amazon review of it says why], provides more subtext and context than this DVD does - it also reveals Ali's sad fate at the hands of those now closest to him). Simply put, individuals who are familiar with the names Ali and Frazier, but not very knowlegable about their rivalry will be the ones who enjoy this film the most. (By the by, this program/DVD identifies the wrong cornerman as George Benton in the fight footage; the former Philly middleweight is actually the tallest Frazier cornerman, not the short bald one. Also, observe how mishapen and "wrinkled" Ali and Frazier's gloves were in the latter half of the bout: they look like that because they were WATERLOGGED and, therefore, provided little protection to Ali and Frazier's hands, torsos, and heads [modern boxing gloves, by comparison, are much more water-resistant].)

Incidentally, another recently released Ali-related DVD, FACING ALI, is definitely worth the "price of admission". On it, ten of Ali's opponents - some well known in boxing cicles, some not so much - talk about their careers prior to and after their bouts with the "Greatest", as well as the fights themselves. What makes this enjoyable is that they are all forthright, modest, and VERY respectful of ALI (Ron Lyle, for example, suggests that the interviewer wouldn't be so interested in him if not for the fact that he fought Ali; maybe so, but boxing fans will hardly have forgotten the former convict given his exciting and brutal wars with fearsome sluggers George Foreman and Earnie Shavers, who also appear on FACING ALI). And, what makes this DVD VERY entertaining is that several of them, such as George Chuvalo, are articulate, insightful, AND funny (however, it's "Our 'enry", Henry Cooper, who steals the show, God bless him).

One more thing ... no disrespect, but contrary to what some of the other reviewers have opined, the Thrilla in Manila, while an exciting and brutal fight, is hardly the greatest or most exciting fight of all-time, in part because Ali spent so much time planted for long periods in one spot against the ropes (if you're watching it on tv, it's not so bad, but what about the people who were sitting in the "cheap seats"?). If one just judges from among bouts that have been filmed, there are probably at least twenty fights that definitely top this one for drama, shifting momentum, etc, such as Joe Louis-Billy Conn I, Carmen Basilio-Sugar Ray Robinson I, Basilio-Tony DeMarco II, Foreman-Lyle, Bobby Chacon-"Bazooka" Limon IV, Frazier-Ali I (of the three "fights of the [20th] century" - Jack Johnson-Jim Jeffries, Louis-Max Schmeling II, and Frazier-Ali I - only this bout lived up to all the hype - and a lot more), etc. Furthermore, while Ali was a GREAT fighter - definitely a top three all-time heavyweight - it's ludicrous to deem him the best pound-for-pound boxer of all-time, as a couple of other reviewers have (sorry again) because, as former Ali sparring partner and opponent Larry Holmes points out in THRILLA IN MANILA, the Greatest's boxing skills - i.e. his "fundamentals" - weren't that good (an opinion shared by many, incl Joe Louis, Eddie Futch, Ray Arcel, etc, etc).