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Most Helpful Customer Reviews
50 of 51 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Finally - Biblical Solutions To The Problem,
By
This review is from: The Trellis and the Vine (Hardcover)
Mark Dever has put this book in the top ten reads of 2009. He says "This is the best book I've read on the nature of church ministry."
Possibly. My first impression was "Welcome to the conversation - a little late, but welcome nonetheless." What Marshall and Payne have written about here has been written about many, many times in the past 10 years or so, mainly by Emergent type folk. A lot of their suggestions and conclusions have already been suggested and concluded in various books about church ministry. What Marshall and Payne do here is articulate it through a very biblical framework - more so than other books - as well as offer a concrete way of doing church differently, and that is what makes the book good. Their fundamental point is simple - yet transformational if churches understood it - Disciple making should be the normal agenda and priority of every church AND every Christian disciple. EVERY Christian's focus should be to BE a disciple and to MAKE disciples and Churches and pastors are meant to be facilitating that process. This requires a shift of focus for churches and ministries. Early on in the book they give 11 such shifts that must take place: 1. From running programs to building people 2. From running events to training people 3. From using people to growing people (huge shift away from church `volunteers') 4. From filling gaps to training new workers 5. From solving problems to helping people make progress 6. From clinging to ordained ministry to developing team leadership 7. From Focusing on Church polity to forging ministry partnerships 8. From relying on training institutions to establishing local training 9. From focusing on immediate pressures to aiming for longterm expansion 10. From engaging in management to engaging in ministry 11. From seeking church growth to desiring gospel growth. This cannot be achieved through superficial change, or implementing small groups. In fact, for Marshall and Payne the issue goes far deeper than just starting small groups. In fact, they argue that small groups are not the issue. The small groups need to be TRAINING groups; trained on how to read the Bible, pray with each other, work on spiritual growth. Without this drive and focus small groups are useless. Even preaching is not sufficient. Yes, you heard that right; Tony Payne and Colin Marshall say on pg 102 that, Sunday sermons are necessary but not sufficient. Preaching is ONE form of the ministry of the word - not THE form. It is always coming back to the issue of ongoing, continuous training and discipling of ALL members of the church. One of the most interesting discussions in the book revolves around calling. How does one know that they are called to ministry, The current model is to wait for someone to say `I feel called to ministry" and then the process begins. This is not a biblical approach for the authors. They say that pastors and elders should be talent scouts. Scripture suggests that people are called and set apart by others (see Timothy). Pastors should be actively recruiting suitable people within their churches and challenging them to expend their lives for the work of the gospel. They write: "When we try and discern what it is that makes that role special [the one called out for ministry] in the New Testament it's not full time verses part time or paid verses unpaid. It's not that some belong to a special priestly class and others don't. It's not even that some are gifted and others aren't because all have gifts to contribute to the building of Christ's congregation. The key thing seems to be that some are set apart or recognized or chosen, because of their convictions, character and competency and entrusted with the responsibility under God for particular ministries." Their summary proposals are: Summary Propositions 1. Our goal is to make disciples 2. Churches tend towards institutionalism as sparks fly upwards 3. The heart of disciple-making is prayerful teaching 4. The goal of all ministry - not just one-to-one work - is to nurture disciples 5. To be a disciple is to be a disciple-maker 6. Disciple-makers need to be trained and equipped in conviction, character and competence 7. There is only one class of disciples, regardless of different roles or responsibilities 8. The Great Commission, and its disciple-making imperative, needs to drive fresh thinking about our Sunday meetings and the place of training in congregational life 9. Training almost always starts small and grows by multiplying workers 10. We need to challenge and recruit the next generation of pastors, teachers and evangelists As I have said, while the main content and issues have been raised many times, what makes this book special is the solutions and suggested models which the authors put forward as a way forward. Too many books in the past have raised the problems but have never given substantial proposals or suggestions for a way forward. This book gives a biblically focused framework to allow you to work through the 11 required shifts thus becoming a church which trains disciples to be disciple-making disciples.
12 of 14 people found the following review helpful:
4.0 out of 5 stars
Back to the Basics of Ministry - Building Disciples,
By In Process (Omaha,NE) - See all my reviews
This review is from: The Trellis and the Vine (Hardcover)
Reformation is good. By that, I mean the continual God-glorifying re-evaluation of your ministry in light of what the scripture says. We need to ask the really hard questions. Ligon Duncan asks these types of questions as he writes his endorsement on the back of this book, "Why are we doing what we are doing? Are we focusing on the right things? Is the gospel central? Are we making disciples? Has `administry' trumped ministry? Is our corporate life and mission biblically shaped?"
In this book, Marshall and Payne draw upon an illustration of trellis-work and vine-work to point ministry leaders back to basic point of ministry - building and nurturing disciples of Jesus Christ. "Trellis work", such a meetings, finances, buildings, infrastructure, organization, etc are helpful but they can take over from "vine-work" of building into people. The biblical basis for such a mind shift is drawn from Ephesians 4, Colossians 1:5-6, 1 Peter, Acts, and Matthew 16. The scriptures thus speak of gospel growth and increase of the word of God, bearing fruit in the lives of believers as they grow in the knowledge and love of God (pg 37). These scriptures require that we must "abandon ourselves to Christ and His gospel" realizing that God is focused on people-growth by the power of His Spirit (pg 38-39). We need a mind shift... 1. From running programs to building people 2. From running events to training people. This will be inherently more chaotic and it takes time, but we will have to "relinquish control of our programs for, as the gospel is preached, Christ will gather His people..."(pg 19). 3. From using people to growing people. 4. From filling gaps to training new workers. Instead of asking, "who can fill this gap in our personnel?" to "What ministry could this member exercise?" 5. From solving problems to helping people make progress 6. From clinging to ordained ministry to developing team leadership. 7. From focusing on church polity to forging ministry partnerships 8. From relying on training institutions to establishing local training 9. From focusing on immediate pressures to training for long-term expansion 10. From engaging in management to engaging in ministry 11. From seeking church growth to desiring gospel growth A proper understanding of ministry occurs as we view one another as partners in the Gospel of grace, living as citizens of heaven (Philippians1:7, 27-30), contending side-by-side, suffering for the sake of the Gospel (pg 66-67). Training, as the authors define it, is at the heart of ministry. It is "much more about Christian thinking and living than about particular skills and competencies" (pg 70). It I about "...quality of character and behavior based on the sound doctrine of the Scriptures." (pg 71) 1 Tim 4:7 says, "...train yourself for godliness." (c.f. Heb 5:14 2 Tim 2:16-17). We are to model such that others imitate our "Gospel way of living" (pg 72-76). "Our goal should not simple be to `get people into small groups.". Unless Christians are taught and trained to meet with each other to read the Bible and pray with each other, and to urge and spur one another on to love and good works, the small group structure will not be effective for spiritual growth" (pg 100). As Paul did, A Christian leader should be about looking for a small band co-workers (2 Tim 2:2), those that will labor with him and "multiply themselves" to the larger fellowship. There is so much more in this book than I can cover here. Read it for yourself. Don't simply rely on a book review like this. You will find yourself mulling about in the Scriptures and thinking through the faces and names within your own ministry circles. Who knows? This may cause a fundamental re-evaluation and excitement about your ministry so that you return to the basics of ministry - building disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ.
4 of 4 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Intentional gospel living,
This review is from: The Trellis and the Vine (Hardcover)
The Trellis and the Vine focuses on doing the hard work of gospel living. That is, Christians giving of themselves through personal discipleship creating gospel growth.
The trellis represents the structure of a church including "management, finances, infrastructure, organization, governance." The vine represents gospel growth that grows around the trellis such as "planting, watering, fertilizing, and tending." (8) Very often trellis work can take over vine work since it tends to be easier see and to figure out what needs to be done. Vine work can be tougher to discern just what needs to be done and exactly how to do it. This book tackles the aspect of vine work. The reader is moved from thinking of the church as an institution into a personal, intentional and relational understanding. The barriers of trellis thinking are broached and broken down without being dismissed. The authors attempt to get the readers thinking about vine work. The authors explain the reasons for vine work and gives examples of how it can be done. They explain what vine work training might look like and encourage every church member to be involved. A chart of "gospel growth stages" is given using seven example people that one might find in their church. Those stages consist of outreach, follow-up, growth and training. (86-87) This is an example of one of the tools offered. A particularly interesting chapter is Why Sunday sermons are necessary but not sufficient. The authors lay out two stereotypes of church ministry - Pastor as clergyman and Pastor as CEO. (98) Every person will probably be able to see some aspect of these stereotypes in their churches. The authors offer a another way which is the pastor as trainer. (99) This is the position the authors have been pressing in the book. The authors' position makes sense and is argued for biblically. This chapter could be a wake-up call for pastors and church members alike. Churches are challenged to evaluate a their programs, activities and structures against the gospel growth criteria presented. (108) The book gives some very practical advice on growing a vine type of ministry in a church. The authors give examples of how it is done, where to start and some resources for training. Part of this is included in the three appendices including a helpful FAQ. This book is a great ministry resources. It answers questions that pastoral staff may have as to how to get members intentionally involved each others lives for the gospel. Church members, both new and old, ask who are anxious to be involved in church life yet are unsure how will benefit. This book will guide them and help them ask the right questions of their pastor(s). Some long-time church members will be challenged if they are overly focused on particular programs, activities, etc. It may encroach on traditions for some though in a healthy, gospel-centered way.
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