Customer Reviews

TurboTax Business + eFile 2008 [OLD VERSION]

5 star:		(49)
4 star:		(11)
3 star:		(8)
2 star:		(2)
1 star:		(18)

 

 

Something is seriously wrong here. I purchased TurboTax Business 2008 last week and now find out that the full edition is a free download from TurboTax with their blessings??? Do I feel like a chump? In the immortal words of Sarah Palin, "YOU BETCHYA"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here it is folks:

http://www.turbotax.com/lp/ty08/ppc/ttb-learn-more-biz-free.jsp

This TurboTax company has a lot of nerve!

UPDATE: Intuit has tried to correct for this year's price-grab (as detailed below in my original post) by reversing themselves and including 5 free e-files and removing restrictions on the number of returns that can be created and printed with a single copy of TurboTax. For that, I am raising my rating to two stars. However, as smart consumers, we should note when they did this and infer what motivated them. During the period while the controversy of their restrictions and extra charges was raging, Intuit and its representatives did nothing but try to justify their position, but this did nothing but inflame their (former) customers more.

However, the controversy did catch the attention of Intuit TurboTax's primary competitor, the Tax Cut product from H&R Block, who then moved to take advantage by first pointing out that they did not raise their price this year (even when including e-file as TurboTax did) and were not restricting the number of returns that could be done with a single copy of TaxCut. Then, more importantly, decided to offer 5 free e-files with the TaxCut product.

Only then did Intuit realize that they were not going to sneak this price-grab by consumers, because if the two products were side by side and only one of them (TaxCut) was advertising 5 free e-files and no limits on printing, they were going to lose sales big time. They then reversed their decision and have now matched TaxCut's offer.

So what does that mean for us consumers? In one sense, it is a victory, because we are getting what we wanted in the first place: to pay a reasonable price for a product that we can use to meet our family's needs. However, while I applaud Intuit's decision to reverse a bad decision, I can also see that it wasn't because they were listening and responding to their customers, but only countering their competition (who was listening to consumers and responded to take advantage).

More importantly, H&R Block's actions with TaxCut demonstrated a certain corporate character: first, they did not try to price-gouge customers this year by raising prices when they included "free" e-file. Free equals free. Second, they did not try to get extra money for printed returns (software as service) when the customer has already paid for the product. Third, they could have just trumpeted the fact that they do not charge for extra printed returns, but they raised the bar by including more free e-files. This is compared to Intuit's corporate character of greed and selfishness, which has been demonstrated this year by price increases, user restrictions, and extra charges. A few years ago, they also showed their true colors by including damaging Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) in TurboTax to prevent it from being installed on more than one computer, preventing legitimate customers from working on their return on a work computer and finishing it on their home computer, and then preventing them from uninstalling it. Then, as with this year, they only listened and gave in when it was already clear they are going to lose. Intuit needs to learn how to balance their profit expectations with respect for their customers and it will take time before they earn our respect back.

So for me, I will give credit where it is due and purchase TaxCut instead of TurboTax this year.

ORIGINAL REVIEW BELOW:

Intuit is trying to pull a fast one on consumers this year by including e-filing "at no extra charge."

Intuit is promoting that they are including one free e-file with its software for tax year 2008, but has also increased the price of its products by about $15. In previous years, they would charge $15 extra to e-file, but you could send in a rebate to get that $15 back, which made it effectively free. This year, they charge you $15 upfront, whether you use the e-file or not, which means EVERYBODY PAYS MORE.

In addition, they have changed their product's license from allowing a purchaser of TurboTax to prepare up to five tax returns within the household in the 2007 version to allowing only one tax return (with included e-file) and then charging $9.95 for each additional return prepared, WHETHER THOSE ADDITIONAL RETURNS ARE PRINTED OR E-FILED in the 2008 version. The additional charges for additional e-file submissions would be fair, but not for additional preparations and printed returns. So what this means is that, under the guise of providing free e-file, Intuit will charge up to $54.80 ($15 + 4 * 9.95) MORE to consumers to receive the equivalent of what was provided with the 2007 version. Keep in mind, they are charging even if you prepare and print more than one return without e-filing, which means there is NO COST TO THEM, but they want to charge you for it anyway.

This doesn't sound free to me.

This will affect many users who prepare one main return, and then a few more simple ones for children or parents, etc. Even if you only do one return, you should avoid this year's TurboTax on principle. The core issue is that Intuit is trying to change TurboTax from a tool-based product model to a service-based model. However, they have not changed the pricing to reflect this change. The problem is, they want to continue pricing the product like they did before, when it was a tool that could be used multiple times, yet restrict it like a service where you pay for every use.

If you object to the one return policy, Intuit will just say, "Use TurboTax Online, it's free for simple returns!", but this suggestion is just a distraction in this discussion. What they are saying is like this: Suppose I bought a nice brand-name toolset for full price and used it on one project. I've now setup all the tools in the box just like I like it and become totally familiar with the tools and how they can be used, so much that I can just reach in the box without looking and find the tool I need and once I get it out I know just how hard to hit with that hammer. I finish the project and close up my toolbox for the day. The next day, my mom wants me to fix something so I get the toolbox but I now find that it is locked and has a security sticker on it saying that I'll have to pay $10 extra to open the toolbox for each additional project. Or, I can pack up my mom's item and drive it to the hardware store where they will let me borrow some simple tools to try and fix the item but if it gets too complicated over there, they'll start charging me to rent additional tools. Not to mention that I have to throw away all the learning that I've already developed with the great toolset that I already bought and learn another whole set of rental tools at the hardware store. If I wanted to rent tools, then I wouldn't have bought the toolbox in the first place (which was probably what the hardware store really wanted when they came up with this scheme).

Here is the problem people have with this scenario:

Last year, the toolbox included 5 uses. This year the toolbox costs $15 more but only allows a single use. Ok, it adds a "free" service that used to cost $15 but we may or may not want to use that service and if we did, we could send in a rebate for to get the $15 back, making it effectively free. But "Free service" aside, what happened to the value of those unlimited uses? The price of the toolbox stayed the same, but the functionality went down because we can only use it once. Maybe it would be more ok if there was a big sign at the store that said: "SAVE ON THIS TOOLBOX! YOU CAN ONLY USE IT ONCE BUT IT'S CHEAPER!" Or at have the decency to post a very big warning: "THIS TOOLBOX COSTS THE SAME AS LAST YEAR, BUT YOU CAN ONLY USE IT ONCE!"

Don't let them get away this price increase that has no basis in common sense. Avoid TurboTax this year until they change this ridiculous policy, even if you only prepare a single return with it. If you buy it, they'll use your sales data to justify this unreasonable change, then who knows what else they will try to charge us for next for doing nothing on their part.

Looking at the big picture, what Intuit probably wants in the long term is to move people away from the boxed product and over onto the online product and then kill off the boxed product. This would eliminate the costs of physical production and distribution and the bandwidth costs of distributing software updates. It would also eliminate the slice of the profits given to retailers that sell their boxed product and kill off any promotional pricing or freebies. With no retailer competition, Intuit could charge whatever they want for their online service. It would also increase customer lock-in since their data would be purely stored on their own company servers.

Like others, I was annoyed enough at Intuit's new policy of charging $9.95 for each return after the first one that I ordered up Tax Cut Home & Business instead. In addition to Tax Cut's rather poor interface, I immediately ran into problems importing information from last year's corporate tax return (prepared on TurboTax Biz). I called up customer support and in short order learned that Tax Cut can't perform this simple function! That was a deal breaker for me. (Can you imagine re-creating ten or twelve depreciation schedules dating back five and seven years?)

So I returned Tax Cut and got an immediate and no-questions refund from Amazon, and ordered TurboTax instead. This is a pricey choice, because one must buy two Intuit products to get what H & R Block provides in one Tax Cut disc. Well, not only is the TurboTax interface much better, but it's improved over last year. This is especially noticable in the Form 1040 of TurboTax Basic. (I work directly on the forms, so I see no point in buying anything other than the Basic software: TurboTax Basic Federal + eFile 2008) That, to me, is worth the extra cost.

And, oh, the power of the internet! Intuit got so many and such hostile reviews that within two days it rescinded the $9.95 charge. You can now prepare (and e-file) up to five returns from one piece of software.

Thank you for listening, Intuit, and thank you for a great product. I actually enjoy preparing my taxes, though not paying the bottom line.

(Note that TurboTax Business is for corporate and trust returns, not for the Schedule C used by many small businesses, and which are handled just fine by TurboTax Basic or any other iteration of the personal tax software.)

On December 12, 2008, Turbo Tax made an announcement that they are supposedly eliminating these fees. Here is their announcement, taken from their website:

"TurboTax now includes free electronic filing with every federal return prepared with desktop software products. TurboTax is the only tax software to include both e-filing and audit support with every federal return.

TurboTax customers can e-file up to five federal tax returns, the limit set by the IRS, and prepare and print multiple returns at no additional cost.

Including free e-filing with every federal return is one more way we help make it easier for TurboTax customers to keep more money in their pockets."

Does this include the business software? I guess so, but it's not clear.

I think the jury might still be out on this one, but time will tell. I bet that there were a lot of complaints from consumers. Score one for the little guys!

First off, I've been using TurboTax for 11 years and they just lost me.

How? They are now giving you an efile for free with your purchase, right? Yeah, well, now, their charging you PER RETURN you create. So suppose you're one of those accountants or business people that does more than one return...you're paying for it, ON TOP of the software that you already paid for. That's right. Check out the Intuit web site, or ZDnet for more info:

[...]

Can you believe the nerve of these guys? So long Turbotax, hello Tax Cut, and if they try to get cute, I'm sure some other startup will compete against them.

TurboTax 2007 caused me hours of wasted time. If I hadn't noticed that it didn't deduct what I had entered for section 179 depreciation, then I would have paid thousands more tax. Other people had the same problem based on what I saw on their support forum. I suspect TurboTax 2008 will also have its share of bugs and problems. SO CHECK YOUR RETURN CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU FILE! Also, expect it to nickel and dime you when you want to do a relative's return (or someone else's) after you've done your own. But I'm going to be nice and give them 2 stars because the competition also has its issues.

UPDATE 2008-12-29: Policy has changed and you now get "FREE: 5 federal e-files and unlimited printed returns included with every TurboTax 2008 product." Thanks, Intuit, for listening and responding!

UPDATE 2008-12-30: Product does not say it is compatible with Vista 64-bit, but it seems to be working for me on Vista 64-bit.

I think the product is ok from previous versions but the price drops 10% in less than 3 days after ordering. I guess every week closer to tax day is 10% off so I would wait until you get the paperwork ready before buying this. Amazon looks like it is hurting on orders so wait for the discount. I know I should have since I bought this a month before I really need it. I haven't opened it yet so I will probably return it and order it next month.

$109.99(start price) to $89.99(1/3/2009) to $80.99(1/11/2009), next week will probably be $69.99 on amazon.

I just got the program yesterday and right out of the gate I'm having a major problem. When I try to import from Quickbooks 2009, I get a message saying "Sorry, we had trouble opening your company file for...". I've googled it and tried various tweaks all to no avail. In the time I've spent trying to get this program to work, I could have done the return by hand!

TurboTax Business is for corporate, trust, partnership, multi-member LLC, S-Corp returns: forms 1065, 1120, 1120S or 1041. It is not for home tax preparation.

The 2008 version has a great improvement for Forms view (which had been in TurboTax Mac for a few years): You have a table of contents in the left margin, and your forms in the viewer on the right, much like Adobe Reader. Gone is the ridiculously small dialog that you would scroll through to pick a form...only to have the dialog disappear...and open it again to pick another form...etc. Now, you can page through your completed or partial return easily for review and editing.

TT Business runs only on Windows, unlike the TurboTax 1040 family which is Mac as well as Windows. I'm really not sure why it is that they cannot release a Mac version, which is the only reason I bumped it down a star.

I'm no fan of Intuit (a poorly run and particularly greedy and non-customer centric company), but this particular product is fine.

UPDATE 2/23/2009: I would now move this product down two stars if one purchases it for the 1041 capability. The 1041 for estates and trusts will not allow you to prepare a proper K-1 if your net accounting income distribution does not match the computed NAI, which is easily the case given that ways the the UPIA permits expenses to be allocated to income and principal, but which are not supported by the product. (Also, expenses that are limited to the 2% limit for tax purposes need to enter into the NAI computation even though ignored for the tax computation.) You cannot over-ride any of the entries to force the K-1 to be correct and thus must prepare it manually. The tax computation for the base 1041 pages is fine though. Clearly, these forms were not very thoroughly tested by an accountant. Same problem last year, too.

On the 1065 side of things, the transfer of data from QuickBooks was really easy and the K-1's are fine.

This was my first year using TurboTax for Business and if you aren't already basically familiar with business tax returns, this program isn't much help. It won't take a well-intentioned small business owner and transform him/her into someone who can accurately produce corporate income tax returns.

And if you already are familiar with business taxes, why would you need this program? It offers little guidance and doesn't seem much better than just reading the raw IRS instructions.