Customer Reviews

MiG 17 and MiG 19 Units of the Vietnam War (Osprey Combat Aircraft 25)

5 star:		(2)
4 star:		(3)
3 star:		(3)
2 star:		(0)
1 star:		(0)

 

 

I picked this book up to expand my knowledge on the Vietnam Air War, primarily the Vietnamese MiG's they used. Dr. Toperczer's work gives us a relatively neutral view (Dr. Toperczer is a Hungarian flight surgeon who has access to the Vietnamese records on the war). In this work, Dr. Toperczer tells us about the growth of the Vietnamese Air Force from two private planes to their use of MiG 17's and MiG 19's. Each of the MiG's receives a chapter of their own (the MiG 19's chapter is fairly small since it saw only limited service) and theirs also a chapter each on the mechanics and preparing for the war. In the chapters about the MiG's, Dr. Toperczer tries to balance Vietnamese claims against US records but sometimes seems to fail with the description. This failure is probably due to translation more than anything else. Points are won in this book in the Appendices where you see a breakdown of the different claimed kills and how Dr. Toperczer has tried to reconcile the differences.



Rating wise, I'd call this one a 3.5 star book. The information was off target from what I was expecting. While there are some good descriptions of actions, there's also confusion with it. Something I wish had been included with the book is a break down of which aircraft numbers flew with which regiment and division. I'd also like to see for completeness is a loss table for the MiG's. On the plus side this book does provide insight to something we haven't had access to in the past. Bottom line, I can't round up and have to go with 3 stars.

Some of the best aircraft views and paint schemes of PAVN aircraft are found in this book and they are perhaps its strongest feature. This material is seldom found in compiled form in Western publications. Where the book is weakest is in its examination of the tactical utilization of MiG 17 and 19 aircraft, "cross-cultural" comparisons with American aircraft and tactics, and the role of Russian pilots and intercept controllers. The author shows a familiarity with Soviet-bloc tactical air doctrine but does not adequately describe the integration of defense systems so the reader understands how the defenses of North Vietnam worked as a system - the 17s and 19s were critical within that system. Likewise, he does not grasp the complexity of the tactical problem facing the Americans, the political restrictions on their deployment of forces, nor the capabilities and limits of their weapons systems (example: when describing the weapons carried by the adversaries, the author does not address the limitations on American tactics imposed by faulty missile systems, such as the Sparrow's 17% hit rate or the USAF Sidewinder limited coolant charge system).

Still, as an old-time model builder, having these marvelous examples is a great opportunity. For in depth coverage of the air war in S.E.Asia, readers will be best off looking elsewhere.

I have read many of the Osprey aviation titles, and found most to be informative, colorful, but very uneven in writing quality as some were very dry and boring recounting tedious day by day sorties, downings ect. This book on the other hand, was very well written and, at least in my eyes, offered something new in the Vietnam airwar picture.
At first I thought this title would be very bias towards the PAVN, as was written by a former communist in the Aviation field, but I was wrong. Of course it was somewhat biased, but that is to be expected with the title, but MR Toperczer did go to extensive lengths to verify the wild claims (most were innacurate) made by the young and mostly inexperienced North Vietnamese pilots. For me, it was a fresh perspective on the Vietnam air war. I read many titles: The excellent "Thud Ridge" by the legendary Col. J. Broughton, "When thunder rolled" and his followup work, "Palace Cobra" by Ed Rasimus in addition to many operational level accounts of the air war. This book is quite refreshing as it describes the origins and rise of the Vietnamese Air force, which frankly has never been written about before.
I would have given this book a "5", but I was a little disapointed in the lack of technical details on operating and flying the Migs. In addition, I would have liked to have Mr Toperczer go into the incredible restrictions placed on our Airmen in the form of ridiculous ROGs(Rules of Engagement)during the Rolling Thunder campaigns; unable to attack SAM sites, unable to bomb airfields, unable to engage Migs unless they showed "hostile intent"!!??? and how this helped the North Vietnamese.
Overall, I heartly recommend this book for modellers as the color plates are first rate, and anyone who is interested in the Air campaign in the North. I intend to read Mr Toperczer's other work regarding the Mig 21.

A good inside view of this aspect of the Vietnam air war however, heavily biased towards the Vietnamese for obvious reasons.

A good reference book for any library on the subject.

This book is technically what the researcher needs for other activities. In this case I was reviewing possible paint schemes for a museum MiG-17. It served our purpose well with the many pictures.

An absolute wealth of information conerning the VPAF and MIG-17 (as well as MIG-19) units of the Vietnam war. Includes a very rare victory listing of VPAF pilots including which victories can be confirmed by US loss records.

This outstanding book shows a different view about a war where less than 100 little and primitive airplanes gave some trouble to the "most powerful air force in the world". The book contains a lot of data, first hand testimonies and pictures of that unknown heroes, as well as a complete list of the "kills" obtained by these planes. The history comes from the early origins of the DRV air force to the last days of the war, including the training period in China and the Soviet Union. The book also contais more than 10 superb colour profiles featuring remarkable aircraft of that war(some of them with more than 7 victories), which are of very big interst for soviet plane's modellers. I recommend this book not only to modellers or air combat enthusiast, but also for everybody who wants to see Contemporary History from a point of view different from the american Propaganda machine.

Now,I introduce a Review on this book from Young Ki Moon,Seoul,Korea.
This is chronologically edided "Air combat book" by Otherside,Hungurian
auther,Isva'n Toperczer.
US need small, azaile, well armed,fast and good maneuvering "Dogfighter"
from WWII. US had 3 chances in WWII,Kotran War and Vietnam War.
In WWII, Japanese A6M Zerosen fighter was ideal "Dogfighter" [Wt.1876KG]
lowest wt fighter among evry other named good fighters
Zero had good armaments, 2-20mm cannon,2-7.7mm machine guns.
Following miserable defeats of obsolute,volunable, P-39,P-40,F4F Fighters,
US began to involved with coceraed good armamnt(1-20mm, 4-12.7mm),heavy
fihter P-38J heavy fighter{5,707 emty wt.kg},P-47D(8-12.7mm machine guns)
{4,513kg},P-51D(6-12.7Mmm machilne guns)[3,230kg],F6F(6-12.7mm machieguns)
[4074kg], Finally WWII lated ,made for coping Zero,was outstangably
small,light weigt,good maneuvering "Dogfighter" coul'dnt have the fightlng
with Zerosen. F8F had good armament with 4-20mm cannon occupied best fighter of the WWII ![3,206kg].
During Korean War, Stalin alredy started making new dramatic Jet fighters,
for expected oncoming "Cold War" with Westeners including US !
First appering small,agile, highspeed, high ceiling with high climing rated,heaviest armed(1-37mm Cannon,2-23mm Cannon),sweped winged
MIG-15bis destroyed unthinkable number of B-29 Heavy bombers and destroyed
Generally, 20mm Cannon is necessary for destroying heavy bombers !
outdated,straight winged F-80c(6-12.7mm machine gun)[3,819kg],F-84F
(6-12.7mm machine gun)[6,273kg],F9F-2B(4-20mm Cannon)[4,533kg]were
vulonable to "Dogfightihg" with MIG-15bis[3,681kg lightest!]
During first F-86 vs MIG-15 "Dogfighting", US.Lt.Col.Bruce H.Hinton
1,500 rounds of all 6-12.7mm machine guns for shooting down a MIG-15 !
(quoted from "Fighters and Bombers of the World" by Francis Crosby,2008.
also as the references of ( Armament) and [Empty Wt.of Aircraft.] for
idea of corelated "Dogfigfter!"- also all data quoted from Francis Crosby'
book).
heavier armed MIG-15 was denitely favoured than lighter armed F-86.
In aereal combat,a 37mm shell disintegrate a F-86.Soviet claimed mostly
40~60 holed MIG-15 with 12.7mm machine gun of F-86, mosly returned to
thir bases.B-29's gunners hit Kareli's MIG-15, Soviet pilot succeeded
in landing with his crippleed plane at Andong with 117 holes in it.
(quoted from " Red Wings Over the Yalu". by Xiaoming ZhanG,2002)
Generally, Soviet fighters tobe simple in construction and undemanding maintenance(unlike F-4 Phantom II). In 1953,MIG Design Beureau was instructed to produce a lightweight,supersonic Intercepter, Sukhoi
Design Bureau was instrcted with heavier,Radar-equpied All-Weather fighters more familiar concep of F-4 Phantom II.
(Quoted from"F-4 Phantom II VS MIG-21". by Peter Davis,Osprey,2008)
Small,agile,heavier armed,more powerful, increased maeuver--->
MIG-15< MIG-17 < MIG-19 < MIG-21. F-86F almost= MIG-15bis.
At first ,US had wrong policy for Navy F-4 Phantom siries,They used
Air-to-Air Missile only,without Cannon or Mahine gun on philosophy of
no more "Dogfighting" in future Air Combat !
2,Aug, 1964, USS destryer Maddax's conflict with N.Vietnamese torpedo boat
resulted in US bombing in of destroying many boats and oil storage tanks.
a A-1H and A-4C were shot downed by AAA.Following 2 F8E were shot downed
by MIG-17, total 4 F-8E and a A-4C was downed with on a sameday.
Bobming F-105D were easy prey for MIG-17 during these time. their pilot
and crew must be concentratedon bombing with straight flying was mandatory
In 1965, MIG-21F-13 and new MIG-17PF arrived for reorganization of new
2 squadrons.
F-4 Crews had the dicculty of keeping optimal launch range in early
course of Air-to-Air combat.compairing this, there is no difficulty
in Cannon but trigger button of cannon!. there is around failure rate of
Air-to Air missles especially on rapid turns of experienced MIG-17 and
MIG-19 fighters.
I wiil review of all involved fighters:
1) F-4 Phantom II--(4x AIM 7E Sprrow III, 4-AIM-9E/J Sidewinder,and
***1xSUU-23 gun pod-From AAF F-4C they stat use Cannon
1x 6 barreled Vulcan Rotary Cannon experiencing margin
of faiure rate,Air-to-Air missile and contiuously
existing "DOG FIGHTING" !!!!!.
2) F-100D---US Ist operating Supersonic jet fighter. mainly Fighter-Bomber
role (4x20mm cannon)[9,525kg]
3) F-5E TigercatII--Low Wt,supersonic,low cost,export use, Very agile !
(2x20mm cannon, 2xSindwinderof wing tip)[4,416kg]
* S.Vietnam AF use.
4) F-105D----fighter-bomber,Biggest,single enginned, single seater in
the world. **50% of total produced 833 F-105D were destryed
in Vietnam War !!(1x20mm cannon,9 Sindwinder missle)[12,474kg
5) F-8U----Last Navy "Dogfighter"(4x20mm cannon,4xAIM-9,2xAGM-12B BULLP UP
missle)[9,038kg
6) MIG-17F---SMALL,AGILE,Much more lighter,agile,outturn any of American
fighters ! 4x decreased killing ratio compare with Korean War
one of greatest localized, one of greatest fighter in World.
(1x37mm cannon, 2x23mm cannon. Soviet's 1st missle used fig-
-hter.)[3,930kg]
7) MIG-19ST---Stalin orderd supersonic horizontal flying fighter.
Soviet's 1st supersonic fighter.(3x30mm cannon, F-type;
all-weather fighter, PM-type:missile use fighter.)[5,760kg]
8) MIG-21bis---Short range,highly effective,delta winged,cheap,slmple,
most wold widely used,low altitude effective, "Hit and RUN"
sl. sower than F-4D,(1X undfrbelly 23mm 2 barrelled cannon
AA-2 or 8 Air-to-Air missle.[5,200kg]
Finally,I like add ditinguished,field commander who is feisty character of what he saw as inappropriate USAF polices , he is also one of thetactician who has his own concepts and philosophy,..Col.Robin Olds.
He made "Operation Bolo" in Vietnam.before operation, he stongly requested
to deppressed pilots,"Revenge to enmy. engage->fighting-> Kill !
he trained each of the American fighters "Dogfighting"which is very unfam-
-iliar, lacked technique compare with excellent Soviet fighters !
Operation Bolo"is as following :
at first ,F-105D fighter-bomber group take off[ QRC-160(Electronic
Counter Measure)attached a F-105D included]-> decrease acivity of AAA and
SAM-missle .->time interval measured 3~4 Groups of 2,4 F-4 formations
take off with same call sign, same Radio frequency,same flight with F-105D
fighter-bombers.-> efficient bombing,following cover flight of F-4 fighter
->insuficient interception of MIG-17,MIG-19 and MIG-21 intercepters.
Most dangerous and horrible situations of US fighters and fighter- bomber
is well organized,structures of MIG-17,19 and 21 + AAA + SAM missles !

mig-19
atly part of