Customer Discussions > Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - PC forum

Help! I've Been Waiting Over a Year to Play Skyrim!


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Showing 1-18 of 18 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Nov 30, 2012 12:07:10 PM PST
rabidreader says:
I have been waiting for Bethesda to put out a PC version that fixes a lot of the problems people complained about early on (like navigation that is designed for a game console and crudely ported to the PC) AND for them to remove the requirement to use a DRM to 'activate' the game.

Can anyone tell me if these problems have been fixed?

I notice that there are sellers offering 'Used' games. Does this mean there's no longer a DRM requirement? From my understanding if you use a game even once and it requires DRM then the game disc is worthless except to the person who activated it. Is that right? If it is how come Amazon is letting sellers sell 'Used' games?

I noticed Amazon isn't the default seller on the PC game anymore -- the first few featured sellers are all in the UK. I don't want to buy a POS console port game with a DRM requirement but I don't want to miss out on Skyrim altogether, either.

Any help/info/advice anyone can provide will be appreciated IMMENSELY!!!

Thanks!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 5, 2012 3:34:02 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 5, 2012 3:42:35 PM PST
Vappour says:
You know that Skyrim (PC version) is a Steamworks title. It always has been. This is the DRM "requirement" you refer to. I would NEVER purchase a "used" Steam game unless it included an entire Steam account. Even then I would be very wary. IMO everything people complained about regarding the console port issue has been addressed and fixed with easy to obtain and install mods. Compared with most of the games that have been released recently, Skyrim is a righteous masterpiece (it has held my interest -- in large part because of the mods -- for over 400 hours so far). There have also been a couple of DLC's from Bethesda (Dawnguard and build your own house) which are more or less in the "meh" category.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 5, 2012 4:08:24 PM PST
rabidreader says:
Thanks for the response, Vappour. I know that I will eventually buy Skyrim; the question is whether I will buy it for PC. I've been playing PC games for 30 years (since Zork) and love them but I won't buy a game that has a DRM requirement. This may be the title that forces me to break down and buy a game console... Curses!!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 7, 2012 8:30:00 AM PST
Vappour says:
Your points are well taken. But remember that with the console version, you won't have access to the user-created mods (there are hundreds by now). Also the game graphics will be somewhat less awesome (if you look down in some places there are even ants on the ground!). Whatever you decide, good luck!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 7, 2012 9:31:06 AM PST
rabidreader says:
Thanks! and <sigh> Now that you have allayed my concerns about some of the early problems the better graphics and the user-created mods are the main reasons I'm still straddling the fence. I would so much rather get this for PC but the Steam account requirement is holding me back. I've been hoping that, after the game had been out for a while, Bethesda would eliminate the DRM requirement. I guess I'll wait at least another month or two. I'll go play Oblivion some more (it's been a while). That should take the edge off!

Posted on Dec 24, 2012 8:18:08 AM PST
E. Manns says:
RabidReader,
I'm still playing Oblivion as well, though that's because I want to finish the story first before I start again. Skyrim is still shrink wrapped next to my monitor, but I've been longing to play it... Alpine environments are my favourite in real life, and people say Skyrim's quest actually propels you to want to keep playing (I actually gave up on Oblivion, twice). I owned Skyrim for Xbox for a hot second, played it for 15 minutes before realizing that sometimes I had framerate issues and that without hotkeys, equipping my most commonly used spells and items was going to be a bear of stopping the action to scroll through a bunch of lists. Bleh. And of course, the PC version has the modding community that actually HELPS a game for once (compared to all the CoD hackers), often somebody will run into a bug and decide to share an unofficial patch. Not to mention the sometimes-impressive user-made DLC.

The thing about Valve's Steam license... First of all, Steam DRM doesn't limit gamers in any way that we weren't supposed to be limited by copyright laws and EULA agreements anyway. Second, Steam is run by Valve, a company that has always been a gamer culture and making so much money from discount PC game sales that they can even do things out of charity - vs EA's approach with a bottomless hunger for more money even if it costs them some long term business. Third, a new copy of Skyrim is on sale compared to release already, and the Steam client doesn't get in the way of having fun.

In fact, I've come to consider Steam = good. Inexpensive digital distribution was going to be the only way true hardcore PC gaming could survive Vs consoles, and Steam has managed to solidify and even grow how many gamers choose PC, meaning developers can continue to justify games that can leverage the potential of a powerful PC. One final thing but a definite benefit: if you lose or break your discs, you can download registered games from Stream without paying for a new copy. AND, you don't need to use "the old way" of having a CD in the noisy CD-ROM drive to be "allowed" to play!

So yeah, you'll have one more thing running in the background. Overall, it won't affect you (negatively) much. Just try Skyrim, it's a GREAT game, and if you find Steam to be all that intrusive after that, then... then... Well, don't use Origin either, but what PC games will be available on PC NOT distributed through Steam will continue to shrink.

Posted on Dec 24, 2012 8:20:27 AM PST
E. Manns says:
I mean, Steam is not equal to Xbox Live Gold and Playstation Network Plus, where you are required to pay additional fees just to get full functionality of games.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 8:56:58 AM PST
rabidreader says:
Your point about the likelihood that fewer and fewer PC games, especially the really good ones, will be available without DRM is what is gradually weakening my resistance.

I hate, Hate, HATE the idea of using Steam. I don't want an account, I don't want them to have my personal information, I don't want to connect to them and I don't want their spam. I guess I can wait another year or so to see if Bethesda will release Skyrim without DRM. Or perhaps something will happen that will make me less concerned about Steam. Who knows, maybe I'll just end up playing Oblivion and other pre-DRM games for the rest of my life...

Thanks for your response!

Posted on Jan 1, 2013 1:58:12 AM PST
If you wait long enough, it will probably end up on Good Old Games. I love those guys. Talk about a true gamer culture. Keeping a lot of the great older games available and running on Windows 7/8, and no DRM. None , ever.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 4:30:25 AM PST
rabidreader says:
Torrey,

Excellent suggestion! In fact, I think I'll go check them out now. I'll bet they have stuff I haven't played in a long time and have lost the discs.

Thanks for the response!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2013 11:39:58 PM PST
E. Manns says:
Torrey Peacock,
I think I saw that site before, don't they have FreeLancer and the Thief games? I've been using consoles forever, but now that I (like many other since the advent of digital download services like Steam, Amazon, and even the iTunes Store) have a decent gaming computer for the first time, I've been wanting to catch up on the not-to-be-missed classics.

Rabidreader,
Just trying to ease your mind. I forget if I've already said this, but I do understand where you're coming from about spam and identity protection. For the longest time, my Yahoo email account thought my name was "Ender" (you read, rabidly, do you recognize that character?) and I was from somewhere in Maine that I've never heard of, and to this day I only have bought Xbox Live through Subscription cards so my card number wouldn't be anywhere on Microsoft's servers... But, some companies are bigger targets than others (besides the board, who doesn't dislike Microsoft at least a little? Did you hear about what Sony did, and what hackers later did to the Playstation network?), and some are extremely low risk.

Valve has operated Steam with several years worth of a good track record, and their DRM is no more invasive than having an Amazon account (hello user rabidreader). Their DRM is basically just the digital equivalent of the old-fashioned requirement of having a CD in the tray to play a game. The only neg review of steam I've heard about is sometimes free game download codes that were bundled with stuff like a video card don't always work... somehow I think that's more the card manufacturer's fault.

I think, if you like Oblivion, and you (not so secretly) crave the Skyrim experience, you'll eventually find a way to play it. I doubt Discs will disappear soon (only Steve Jobs was ballsy enough to alienate some people's wishes, in order to drag us all kicking and screaming into the 21st Century), but I do expect digital distribution to dominate, because in many ways it's just the next step from BluRay, DVD, CD, Cartridge/floppy disk, and punch cards.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2013 11:59:05 PM PST
E. Manns says:
Oh yes, so you wanna play Skyrim?
ICEWIND DALE!!!!

I'm excited that it can run in Mac OS X too, under an emulator. Somebody just released an "enhanced edition" of Balder's Gate too: Mac, Win, & even iPad!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 11, 2013 8:13:39 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 11, 2013 8:47:46 PM PST
H. Le says:
rabidreader,

The crucial things to remember about Steam DRM is that, by forcing a one time online activation - along with tying the activation to one account permanently - Steam takes away your rights to resale and gifting of the game. This is the major difference between the 1-time online activation/account tie-in DRM when compared to the older disc-check DRM (or DRM-free) games.

However, other than the crucial factor mentioned above, if you elect to play the game *offline* constantly like I do (I only log in about twice a month for patching), Steam is OK in term of being a reasonably unintrusive DRM scheme - especially when you compare it to more overreaching DRM schemes like permanent internet connection and limited online activation.

Also, Skyrim is certainly *not* a "POS console port". While it is true that it is designed as a multiplatform game, the PC version is still the best by far. The only trace of the game being a multiplatform game rather than a PC-exclusive is the UI (although I'm fairly sure there are mods for this). However, although not as well done as Morrowind, the Skyrim UI is definitely way better than the cumbersome Oblivion UI.

My major complaint with the game is that it is too easy in its native state. But again, mods will take care of this (again, PC version still rule). The more minor complaint is that the gameplay is beginning to show signs of being simplified - but not dumbed-down (there is a big difference) -- But as long as the next TES is not simplified further, I am OK with the current changes. Such as it is, I believe the reason for these changes is to make the game more assessible to a greater number of Gamers - namely the casual ones - rather than trying to short-change PC Gamers in any way.

In conclusion, seeing that you really want to play Skyrim but are wary of DRM like I do, my advice is to compromise, and to watch and wait for the price to drop to whatever you think it is worth. I paid $35 for Skyrim and it is more than worth it - as it is much better than Oblivion, and close to - but not quite as good as Morrowind IMO.

----------------------------

PS. If you go on Amazon regularly, then here's a useful tip for being a better shopper and Customer. Place the all the items you are thinking of buying in your cart and move it to the "saved for later" section. Whenever you're are in Amazon, click on your shopping cart and you will get a list of the items whose prices have changed in your cart -- Buy it when the price is right.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 12, 2013 4:02:01 AM PST
rabidreader says:
To H. Le:

Thanks for your response!

Your 'P.S.' is second nature to me. I very rarely buy anything right away. I browse and put almost everything I know I want to buy and a few things I'm considering in my 'Saved for Later'. It's very handy and actually makes more money for Amazon because items I might decide on one look are too expensive can drop below a price point where I'm interested in buying. If I hadn't put it in my 'Save for Later' I might not have been sufficiently interested to go back and look.

I am completely in concert with everything you said in your post with one exception: 'Steam is OK in term of being a reasonably unintrusive DRM scheme'. Perhaps I'm getting inflexible in my old age but I see 'reasonably unintrusive DRM scheme' as similar to 'a little bit pregnant'. I am opposed to software companies forcing customers to create a user profile and provide personal information to a third party in order to use their software. Period. I formed this opinion years ago when I purchased Galactic Civilization II. That game required a 'one time activation and patch' upon loading it for the first time. I did the activation and patch by clicking on the link provided, entering the code from the CD case and providing my email address. No big deal, right? I have never in my life received as much spam as was generated by this one action. At first I received a few spam emails a day, then a dozen, then twenty or thirty at the worst point a few weeks later. Tweny or thirty spam emails a day! It started to taper off but it was such a horrible experience that I nearly gave up the email address I had used for over fifteen years.

I am now very, VERY careful about when and how I provide personal information. I know many people don't consider their email address 'personal' and have more than one email and change them all the time. That's not me so I have to behave differently in order to protect the way I want to live in cyberspace. Perhaps I will one day create an email address for the single purpose of creating a DRM account and use a computer ONLY for gaming to connect to the DRM. I think those are the only circumstances under which I would use a DRM and I would still feel that I was failing to live up to my principles.

Again, thanks for your response.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 12, 2013 3:44:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 12, 2013 3:53:39 PM PST
H. Le says:
rabidreader,

"Perhaps I will one day create an email address for the single purpose of creating a DRM account and use a computer ONLY for gaming to connect to the DRM."

Bingo! That is exactly what I do. I have dedicated PCs - and also emails - for different tasks and purposes. Although this practice is stemmed from DRM counteraction, it has proven to be very helpful for me beyond the DRM scope.

BTW, thank you for the quick response. As an old time Gamer in the mid-40s who has been PC-gaming since the late 80s, I support your principles in regard to DRM. I chose to compromise by variously paying lower prices for games based on the DRM schemes attached, because I have different tolerance levels for different DRM schemes - but I understand where you come from - since we can no longer rightfully purchase a game to own; we can only buy a license with conditions attached.

I am also a multi-platform Gamer who, in addition to PC-gaming, also started playing game on consoles in the mid-90s; and with the exception of the Wii, I own all consoles since the Sega Dreamcast. Currently, console DRM does not prevent resale and gifting of the game discs. However, major console manufacturers - primarily MS - have already sending out 'feelers' to pave the way for possible online activation DRM schemes to prevent resale and gifting sometimes during the life span of the next generation of consoles. The point here is that current console game is not free of DRM either - with the console being the DRM itself -but it is still better than PC game DRM in general, at least for now -- And I do buy the console version of some games when I dislike the DRM scheme attached to the PC version (eg. Mass Effect 3).

I won't take up your time longer with DRM talk, but as someone who vigilantly watched DRM development for the past 7 years and have been involved in many DRM discussions, please let me know if you need some pointers in sorting out DRM schemes.

Regardless of which version of Skyrim you will get - if you do get it at all... Happy Gaming.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 12, 2013 6:46:29 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 12, 2013 6:47:38 PM PST
E. Manns says:
"Little bit pregnant" is nothing to get flippant about.

Back on topic, if you really think there is a correlation between a yes/no thing like pregnancy and DigitalRightsManagement, then I'm afraid you really don't understand DRM at all. DRM, done respectfully and properly, is good for economy, customers and producers alike. It's a closer correlation to think of DRM as a law: if designed elegantly, it protects and brings fairness and order to society, but a tyrant can also decree "laws" that oppress.

Some form of DRM has always existed, and DRM is necessary. As a media creator myself (artist, photographer, graphic designer), I have nightmares that I'll create something brilliant, but I never get rewarded because I get ripped off and someone makes it freely available on the Internet, or starts selling it as their own. Protection from that kind of nightmare is what DRM is for. DRM software has become overall more aggressive because of the community popularity of buying used, cheap. I don't know how car manufacturers deal... in fact, it seems that even despite new features and old parts wearing out, even they aren't coping well with competing with themselves from a years ago and the used car salesman.

The days that gaming wasn't taken seriously as a business are over, so the more we "vote" for "friendly" and elegantly designed DRM, the better things will be in the future. Steam is really helping PC gaming for customers buying games cheaper, wider selection, and in "pristine" condition forever, also helping developers make fair money without getting desperate - and though it doesn't directly compete with Gamestop's console disc sales, you'd better believe that Devs & publishers are seeing the advantages. Few people don't have at least some form of Internet access, and those few may easily fall outside the target market. I think digital content WILL go digital distribution 100% one day, even on consoles, and I'd far rather "vote" for Steam and it's methods than, say, Sony's "Playstation Network Plus."

Posted on Jan 13, 2013 4:58:27 AM PST
rabidreader says:
It's nice for you that you're happy. I'm 'voting' for NO DRM by not buying software that requires me to have an account with a third party in order for me to use it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 11:47:40 AM PST
E. Manns says:
Too bad you've been unhappy for over a year. Everyone has been understanding and trying to help, I hope you continue to enjoy gaming now and well into the future.

As players in StarCraft 2 say, gl hf (good luck, have fun).
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Participants:  5
Total posts:  18
Initial post:  Nov 30, 2012
Latest post:  Jan 13, 2013

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