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What We Knew: Terror, Mass Murder, and Everyday Life in Nazi Germany: An Oral History

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I was born and raised in Germany, many years after the end of World War II and the Nazi period. There is a tremendeous amount of information available about the Third Reich, the war, and the Holocaust; but for me, there was always something lacking: How could all that happen? How was it possible? And what did people really know?

The standard answer, which I was given a lot when I aksed people about it, was that they didn't know anything about the Holocaust until after the war. I never found that very convincing. There is just no way that a country can organize the killing of millions of people, many of who were their own citizens, with the vast majority of people being absolutely clueless. It simply doesn't make any sense. Didn't people notice how their neighbours disappeared? And wouldn't soldiers on visits home mention things they had seen? Given the involvement of the German Army in many of those crimes - a fact that is still hotly contested in shamefully large circles to this date - I have never found the claim credible that "we didn't know anything".

Finally, there is a way to get better information. "What We Knew" contains the results of a decade long scientific study about what people - Jewish and non-Jewish - knew and experienced. A large part of the book consists of interviews, separated into different categories. Of course, the picture is infinitely more complex than "we didn't know anything" or "they all knew" - but now finally, it is starting to make sense.

I admit that even having read so many voices I am still at a complete loss as to how this all was possible. But at least now we know what people knew, how many people knew etc. This book is a masterpiece, and it's a must-read for anybody interested in what was going on almost 70 years ago.

`What We Knew' is both a compelling and somber read. The authors sent out surveys to hundreds of people who had experienced life under the Third Reich. This book is a collection of the subsequent interviews with those who responded. The book is divided into groups of interviewees such as; Jews who left before Kristallnacht, Jews who were deported, non-Jews who claimed to know little about the mass murder, and non-Jews who knew everything. As the title implies, the book sets out to explain how much was known by ordinary Germans about the horrors of the Nazi regime, and most specifically the mass murder of Jews. Aside from this point, the interviews also reveal a vivid description of life in Nazi Germany, many of which contain some fresh insight that was somewhat surprising. Naturally, it is impossible to verify much of the testimony given, but the authors transform the stories into a statistical data analysis that uncovers a certain pattern in their experiences.

For instance, it seems that a large amount of Jews either knew of, or suspected that their brethren were being systematically killed as early as 1941. For Germans, the number of people who knew or suspected was much smaller, but steadily increased as the war went on. Most Jews did not experience significant anti-Semitism before National Socialism. Even well into the NS years, many Jews relate how many of their neighbors did not turn on them and remained opposed to anti-Semitism, at least in theory. There seemed to be a geographical aspect to the anti-Semitism as well. For instance, Jews in Cologne experienced far less anti-Semitism than Berlin. Keep in mind that these were just the majority opinion, and that virtually every one of these statements was contradicted by one interviewee or another. Several Jews felt that the average German sincerely believed in Hitler's anti-Semitic policies and knew everything. It should also be noted that the Jews who emigrated before or shortly after Kristallnacht had slightly more benign experiences, obviously confirming that things gradually got worse as time went on.

For the Germans, the stories were slightly more conflicting. One former soldier for instance, claims how he personally witnessed the murder of hundreds of men, women, and children, but was sworn not to tell anybody about it. Another soldier says that he told friends and family about what he witnessed on the Eastern front while he was on leave, and that the killings of Jews were common knowledge. Most of the Germans claimed that there were rumors of such things, or perhaps heard of specific instances of killings, but did not believe that Jews were being systematically murdered. One thing that did seem consistent was the fact that for non-Jews, Nazi Germany was not a terror state. Most Germans enjoyed a relatively normal and pleasant life under the Third Reich and they did not live in fear of the Gestapo. They supported Hitler for various reasons, most commonly because he got rid of unemployment, reinstilled nationalistic pride, etc.

Overall, this book seems to prove that people's experiences varied greatly under the Third Reich, and there is no real way to prove definitively who knew what and when. That being said, `What We Knew' definitely gives the reader a good cross section of both Jewish and non-Jewish experiences and thus a good general idea of what life was like in Nazi Germany. It will probably never be known exactly who knew what, but this book comes closer than any other that I have read, and for that, I recommend it highly.

I just finished this book after some weeks of reading and putting it down then reading again, etc. In short, it was a difficult read but having made that qualifier, it was also positive and surprisingly interesting and valuable. For any person, primarily students, who are researching with an intention of writing a paper about Nazi Germany and any subtopics therein, this is a must-read book.

The first two thirds of the book are fascinating primary sources--interviews with people who experienced various aspects of being caught up in this horrendous machine that was Nazi state power. The conclusion makes the premise that virtually everybody at the time knew what the Nazi state was working to accomplish. The authors lay waste to the old claim that "we didn't know". Almost every person knew of the collections and the deportation because it happened in daylight and no attempt was made to hide the event. The "network information" that came from stories told by soldiers on leave and by undercover BBC broadcasts contributed to this general knowledge. The plethora of work camps in Germany itself provided evidence of major wrong-doing. The size of the operations and the number of people involved preclude any reasonable denial that major parts of the Nazi Party's Manifesto was being acted upon.

The general reader and I certainly include myself among this group, will particularly get bogged down in the last section. The authors take their data and display it in numerous charts and conduct a precise analysis of this raw information. It is all terribly useful if you are footnoting a research paper but considerably less so if you are trying to have a quiet read. Therefore, be warned. This is a book containing many pearls of information but the water where they are located is deep and sometimes murky.

"What We Knew" by Eric A. Johnson and Karl-Heinz Reuband.
Subtitled: "Terror, Mass Murder, and Every Day Life In Nazi Germany".
Basic Books, Cambridge, Massachusetts 2005.

This book was written by a team of authors, one, an American historian and the other, a German sociologist. The excellent team of writers has compiled a lengthy book (434 pages) that attempts to determine what, if anything, the ordinary German knew about the extermination of so many people, including more than six million Jews, by the Nazi regime which held power from 1933 to 1945. The authors have applied the techniques of modern statistical analysis, interviewing a large sample of individuals who lived through the terror, in an attempt to extrapolate their opinions, into an estimation of the actual feelings and actual knowledge of the actual participants, Jew and Gentile. I emphasize the word, "actual". I congratulate the authors on their efforts. I would be frightened to attempt the same thing.

The greater portion of the book (some 253 pages) accumulates selected interviews with both Jews and Gentiles. Pages 3 to 135 deal with interviews of the Jewish participants while pages 141 to 259 deal with the testimonies of the "ordinary Germans". These interviews represent a "primary source" as Historians define them. By their very nature, however, these interviews do not lend themselves to a flowing, comprehensive story. This makes it difficult to read. The interviews do present a statistical sample of how the people felt about the terror and what they knew about the camps.

In the next few chapters, called "Part THREE", pages 263-399, the authors analyze the data. This section of the book is a good "Secondary source", as defined by Historians. There are tables summarizing a wealth of information, such as the "Level of the Knowledge of Mass Murders of Jews among Jewish Survivors", broken down by the country to which the survivor escaped. Interestingly, on page 313, Table 10-3 shows that the main "Source of Knowledge" of the Mass Murders of Jews was radio broadcasts!

Technology affecting History. One wonders what television would have done. I served in the United States Navy in the segregated South during the late 1950s. Back home, in Manhattan, my tales of water fountains for "Colored" and "Whites" were looked upon as sea stories from a distant country. It took television reports of incidents such as Selma, Alabama, to make the nation conscious of the meanness of segregation. Who knows what a future statistician might make of our nastiness in segregation and what the ordinary citizen, living in The Bronx, knew about the evils of segregation?

The final conclusion of the authors is that "...a dictatorship can enjoy widespread popularity among the majority even while committing unspeakable crimes against minorities and others". (Page 398).

This book is a combination of both good empirical social science and excellent oral history. It takes us a hefty step further along the path to better understanding the ugly stain that the Nazi era has left on our collective consciences and on our humanity.

It consists of a series of carefully constructed interviews of Germans, both Jew and Gentile, who lived during the Nazi reign and who willingly gave their recollections and understandings of the social and political conditions of those turbulent times. The authors fashioned their questionnaires and organized the results in such a way that they were able to give the most convincing answers yet to some of the more enduring, perplexing and controversial questions the Nazi era has raised.

Among them are: Did Hitler rule with an iron hand or was he simply a popular dictator? [Yes he did, but not nearly as effectively as historians have suggested.] What made him so popular among ordinary Germans? [He became a symbol and a national cause for the restoration of German pride and national loss of respect, and with this a reason that ordinary Germans could hope again.] How anti-Semitic were ordinary Germans? [Anti-Semitism was always a simmering pot on a low flame, until the Nazis came into power and turned the heat up to the genocidal level.] Did both the German Gentiles and/or the Jews know about the mass murders? [Many knew; some were entirely innocent; others had strong suspicions but did not want to know because they knew that knowing was dangerous knowledge to own, and so both Gentiles and Jews willingly turned their heads away.]

Most of all this book challenges the conventional wisdom that Hitler's Germany was more about a single man, Adolph Hitler, or was even only about a brutal totalitarian government. It proves in a rather convincing way that Nazi Germany was about the depth of hatred and mistrust ordinary German's had held for Jews for most of the millennium.

The "take away message" of the book is that in every case, the answers to the questions posed are not simple but complex; nuance matters a lot; and that even brutal racist dictators can be very popular. Since most of those who were of age during the Nazi era are now very old and are rapidly disappearing, this book may be the last opportunity for in-depth interviews of them. For that reason and for the quality of the research, this is a five star effort.

This is a great book that provides excerpts from interviews Johnson and Reuband conducted with Jews and Germans. The interviews give exact details about how much and what kind of information the Germans and Jews had about the mass extermination of the Jews. The book also includes the results from their phone and mail surveys about what the Germans and Jews knew, which along with the interviews provide actual evidence for their conclusions.

I found the premise of this book very interesting and looked forward to cracking it open from the moment I made the purchase. Overall I think the concept of the book is solid, but it just becomes a bit redundant after a while as many of the stories begin to sound exactly the same. The final 100+ pages were a chore to make it through because it became so overly analytical in its investigation, which is subjective in my opinion, that it read more like an overly long business meeting full of graphs and charts, ad nauseum.

I would have preferred the authors have presented fewer interviews with greater detail paid to the more interesting ones. The end result is close, but misses the mark of my expectations.

The Authors present an impressive research compendium of both qualitative and quantitative studies of life during Nazi Germany by both Jewish and Non-Jewish Germans home and abroad, prisoners and non-prisoners of camps, young and old, male and female, educated and non-educated. This is about a 400 page soft cover book divided up into four parts: Jewish survivors, orginary Germans Testimonies, and Jewish survivors, ordinary Germans Survey Research. The main themes examined are everyday life, terror, and mass murder; who knew it, how they knew it, and when they knew it.

Most of the interviews in the oral history are semi-structured, where an open ended question yielded a different question to different individuals. Albeit, there were commonalities such as fear of the Gestapo, how a family member got arrested, and what did you know about the murder of Jews and when did you know it? Nearly 200 people were interviewed with only a fraction of those interviews published. Most Jewish Germans commented that the degree of anti-semitism heightened after 1933 but was still there before Hitler came to power. The majority of Jewish Germans considered themselves Germans first, many having fought in WWI and more than willing to die for the fatherland. Information regarding mass murder could be word of mouth from escaped prisoners or the BBC, the majority receiving this information in 1943. There were mixed responses on fear of the gestapo, some Jews were afraid, some were not. It was mentioned that if the Gestapo came to take a Jew away, it happened at night or early morning and the Gestapo were much more decent than the SS. Kristallnacht is highlighted throughout the book and by all accounts served as the impetus for Jewish emigration and utter misery for the Jews. the degree of anti-semitism also varied from city to city with smaller towns exhibiting harsher treatment. Most Jewish survivors commented they do not trust the Germans and upon emigration to other countries do not long for the country of their birth.

Regarding non-Jewish Germans, the young were more enthusiastic than the old regarding Hitler and National Socialism. One respondent point out that National Socialism was a good idea but implemented poorly. Life in the mid 1930s was good for most Germans, people were working, eating, traveling, vacationing. The requirement of joining the Hitler Youth was tolerable for some and a joy for most as it made the young feel important and proud. Respondents commented as being shocked at Kristallnacht, having friends who were jewish. Some even commented on continued shopping at Jewish stores, albeit carefully. A paradox to the gestapo taking people at night were the deportations of Jews occuring in mid-daylight with many people looking on. Many respondents commented that the soliders on the front line knew nothing about mass murder of the jews. Prior to the systematic gassing, mobile vans were used and this research introduces the first mention of electrocution in the vans. Some respondents were in awe of Hitler in the early years as their testimonies espouse. Catholics more than Protestants were anti-nazi, and women more than men. There were also grusome accounts of mass shootings of Jews before crematoriums and zyclon B entered the fray.

The surveys of Jewish survivors yielded 507 responses. Prior to 1933 interactions with Non-Jews were mostly friendly, after 1933 most interactions were hostile, especially in small towns. Whether non-Jews were for or against national socialism swung between some for and some against. Men more than women were for national socialism. Most Jewish survivors knew about mass murder of jews before 1945, by radio broadcast or family member.

The surveys of Non-Jewish survivors were carried out in four cities: Cologne, Krefeld, Dresden, and Berlin. Response rates were 50 percent. The majority of respondents in Krefeld, Dresden, and Berlin believed in National Socialism,while the majority of respondents in all four cities did not admire Hitler. Most respondents in Berlin and Dresden shared Nazi ideals. Dresden and Berlin responses seemed to have the most sympathy for National Socialism before 1945 and after 1945, respectively. Male, protestant, and younger respondents were more sympathetic toward National Socialism. When asked what people like the best about national socialism, the two most popular elements were less unemployment and less crime. Most non-Jews did not live in fear of being arrested, of those who did they consisted of Catholics and women. When asked if they committed illegal acts, the two most common were listening to non-German radio and telling Nazi jokes. Across all four cities, most non-Jews stated they did not know about the final solution. Of those who did know about it, they heard about it mostly from foreign radio or a family member.

The authors conclude that most Germans during the Third Reich led relatively happy lives and the system would not punish unless one stepped out of line of national socialist ideals; Further, a dictatorship can be popular by the majority of people even when unspeakable acts occur throughout society. An absoulute triumph in social science research.

I had to read this book for Central Michigan University's HST 600. It's not a bad book. Some of the interviews are quite good. I would give the gook a five star rating if what the two writers had just kept the scope of the book to the interviews of the Jewish survivors of Nazi Germany. Also, the interviews with the non-Jewish Germans range from "we knew everything" to "I didn't know".

The last "I didn't know" German is Stephan Reuter. Wow, you really could almost strangle the authors for putting his comments in the book. Why? Stephan was Wehrmacht Army Infantry in WWII. Oh, he knew about Jewish oppression; that was a known fact. But Stephan was drafted in 1940, spent the whole year in basic and infantry training, is shipped out to Russia in 1941, is shot twice, gets the Iron Cross, and is awarded the German Infantry Assault badge. He was in the mud for four years in Russia and spent the last of the war dodging Soviet Artillery shells. Another German was drafted in 1941 and spent WWII on an old pre-World War One battleship avoid air, torpedo, and Soviet artillery attacks. Those two Germans didn't know about the final solution. They were too busy avoiding getting killed in day-to-day living. So, the interview with Stephan and the rest of the Wehrmacht contradict the book. In the book they claim that 75% knew of the final solution. Then when they talk to the front line soldiers it turns out that less than half knew what was going on. It's not that these men were ignorant. When you were in the German Army in WWII a person fought, ate, slept, and worried about his life.

The poor Jews in the book you could just cry for. However, at the time of these interviews it's early 2000s and these people are about sixty years removed from Nazi Germany. One Jewish survivor admits she worked at a massage parlor, actually was a low priced whore. Her story was sad. There are some concentration camp survivors. Their story becomes grime real quick. All of these people avoided the camps until late 1944 or early 1945. To the person they were all saved in mid-March 1945. The US Army gave excellent care to the survivors and about half emigrated to the USA.

Only one person says the Allies should have bombed the camps to stop the killing. To the authors credit they said that bombing the camps would have distracted from the support at the front. Since more Jews were dying from starvation than execution it was dumb luck the allies had the right strategy in saving the survivors.

The authors of the book do not know the difference between Waffen SS, SS, SA, and the other branches of the Wehrmacht (German Military Machine). Also, they do not know that the German Field Police controlled the Heer (German Army)and had the power of summary execution. So, one set of German communications soldiers witness a murder being done by a Latvian SS unit. However, the soldiers can't be touched because their passbooks (soldbuch) are properly filled out and give them permission to be in the area. They are given to their commander and told not to talk about it else they would be shot. In Germany of 1943 that threat had a lot of truth to back it up.

The authors of the book toss around quite a bit of German. I speak a little so quickly was able to see the meaning of the words. However, if you don't know German you will miss the meanings in about one out of five pages. There is one big part of the book where the Gestapo talks to the Jews in "Du" versus "Sie". In Germany formality is everything. So, a way of dehumanizing people is to refer to them as "Du", it's not even an adult meaning. The authors don't explain the meaning and it could be lost to the causal reader.

Now, what makes this book a bombshell is they mail out lots of questionaires to Jews and Germans who were living in Germany during WWII. They received back over 450 responces. This is the only study ever done where somebody actually asked questions of people from that time. One third admitted they knew about the final solution. There as over 30 million Germans in Germany and closer to 50 million in aggregate Nazi Germany. That meant that no less than 10 to 13 million knew about the murders. If that many knew then everybody knew.

Where the book gets real long is in the final 100 pages. Folks, this part will drive you up the wall. They make wild claims to their study. Example, they take a statistical survey of 490 Germans who are living in the early 2000s and then claim that Nazi Germany had little support from women. Now, this directly contradicts a 1955 study which said the exact opposite. There is over 45 years between the two groups. Then the authors notice that the less educated Catholic towns are less supportive of the Nazis than the "more enlightned" pro-Nazi college towns. They directly say that more educated people are more tolerant and enlightned. Then when the evidence discounts their observation they discount it. So, I knocked it a star for that. The results of their survey was skewed because the population was too old.

So, my view is this. I give five stars to the interviews of the brave Jewish surviors. They are somewhat the same. But they range in scope for a man who hid for four years to a massage parlor attendant. They all lost family and friends. You really feel for them. The Germans range from knowing something to knowing something. The "Hausefraus" may have known more than they let on. The plain infantry or sailors may have had no clue. The reader of the book will have to judge the rest.

Oh, this part is for future History 600 students:

Scope: Overview of German Jews, German Citizens, German military members, the historical sequence of the Nazi rise to power of 1928 to 1932, the appointment of Hitler by Hindenburg as Chancellor, Hitler becomes dictator, Nuremberg laws, Kristalnacht, Real Start of Concentration Camps in 1942, Loss at Stalingrad and Kursk, liberation.

Causation: Linking of Protestant Germany Reformation under Martin Luther to anti-Semetic actions by Germany, Resentment of the economic success of German Jews, Kristalnacht, and the final solution.

Progress: It's anti-progress. Things get worse for the Jews. The Germans beat the Jews in 1932, Nuremberg legalizes the oppression of Jews, Kristalnacht defacto strips the Jews of all citizenship, Stalingrad seals the fate of Nazi Germany and the Jews. The Germans hope to erase the Jews before they can be saved.

End: Germany has fallen into the abyss of hate. There can be no end until Nazi Germany is crushed by the allies. Make sure to refernece page 398.

Best of luck fellow historians. To the causual readers, ignore everything past page 300. Still, it's an O.K. book.

This book addrsses one of the most challenging aspects of undesrtanding the Holocaust. Read it...