[quote]Originally posted by R.S. Carlson: Obviously you weren't looking very hard when Bush was President and getting viciously attacked by the far Left. I'll leave it at that because It's pointless to try to discuss things with someone with your (or a Far Rightists) mentality.[/quote]
Other than funny pictures and Bushims, what was so terrible about how Bush was mocked? You must admit he misspoke more than any other President let alone politician, ever, and much of it was downright hilarious. That aside, there wasn't anyone trying to tear down his patriotism, birthright and race, big difference.
[quote]Conner Macleod: You're proving my point about intellectual laziness, people don't bother to look up the facts about what was said, they see or hear a sound byte, form a conclusion about it, then never change it, period, because it takes effort to find the truth and be informed. [quote]
Never said I disagreed with you about intellectual laziness, just pointed out that you were being intellectually lazy.
Right, but many, many, many Republicans do, and it's nonsense. There are people in this very thread who follow this mentality that celebrities should not voice their opinion on anything, and that goes against the principles this nation was founded on. Of course they're not all the same (although Republicans and right-wingers are by default, conservatives are typically such but not necessarily), but a majority of them are a combination of the aforementioned characteristics, although that seems like a moot point, what I said is true regardless. [quote]
I am sure telling the judge "what I said is true regardless" will keep you from going to jail no matter what evidence the prosecutor may have against you.
Whether it's on the Internet, TV, papers, magazines or in real life, the sentiments of them generally echo each other, there's not as much diversity amongst their group as there is between liberals. To prove my point, just take one quick look at the Fox News political forums, or any of their forums, and you will see the vast majority of them, nearly all, agree to a t about how much they hate Obama, how they hate health care reform, how they love war, etc. [quote]
I am sure you can look at any hardcore democrat forums and find nothing but love for Obama. I don't know why would expect regular posters, to a clearly Republican forum, to like the current administration.
Also don't even get me started on the War issue. "Love War".
That's how I generally approach any topic, from the middle, but when it's blatantly obvious as it is in this case, I cannot help but just be frank about the truth of the matter. Are all of them like that? No, of course not, but is the majority of them like that, well just take a look around any given medium. I honestly can't say I've ever seen any liberal say that any particular person should not be allowed to speak, or that they will boycott them because they are Republican or pro-war, it just doesn't happen to the same extent that you see from the right-wingers. [quote]
So nobody asked Don Imus to be removed from the radio? Nobody suggested that Rush Limbaugh should be silenced? You don't think that the liberals or democrats have never tried to silence people? Rush couldn't even purchase a football team b/c of the media sensation around it and the misquotes they put out from him.
What about the Democrats calling Gov Perry Anti-American?
"'Talk of secession is an attack on our country. It can be nothing else. It is the ultimate anti-American statement,' Dunnam said at a news conference."
Sounds like a threat to me. You will also note in the same article:
"As CNSNews.com has reported, some Democrats are talking about reinstating the Fairness Doctrine, a federal regulation that required equal time for the expression of different political views on the public airwaves.
Critics of the move, including many Republicans, say Democrats want to re-impose the Fairness Doctrine to force an end to conservative talk radio."
Nope the Democrats don't ever threaten people and they would certainly never do it with laws in the guise of 'expanding free speech' or 'making things fair'.
I could sit here all day and dig up examples of both sides curtailing free speech or trying to stop someone from voicing their opinion. You know perfectly well that both sides are guilty of this, but it would hurt your holier than thou arguments.
This thread is a perfect example, see how many people are pissed at King for something he said that was taken out of context, and they never bothered to read the dozens of comments or check online to verify the truth of the matter, no matter how it's spun that is intellectual laziness, it's easier to just sit and judge rather than dig for the truth. Sadly for those who fit this description, they stopped reading after they said their peace, other than the usual troll who continues to fan the flame war, and those are the ones that could stand to benefit from changing the way they approach life. [quote]
I agree people should have looked for themselves. My whole point in responding to you in the first place was to show that you were being a hypocrite. You called someone out for labeling and assuming that the label was sufficient for proving his point and then you immediately, in the same post, start labeling people.
Face it both sides are lazy. Did anyone go and listen to all of the comments Rush made or just the one quote? Did they listen to the comments Imus made? Do people listen to anything that they question or do they simply take the medias blurb as the whole truth? Sadly most Americans, that is BOTH sides, will take the blurb from the media or their party HQ and run with it as fact even if it is disproven time and time again.
All the ones that I saw of Bush were funny pictures or Bushisms, none of them tried to disprove his loyalty to his country, his citizenship, or make fun of his race, yet the ones against Obama are consistently of that variety. I didn't see any of Palin so I can't comment on that.
I was just reiterating that it was my observation, I wasn't getting my info from somebody else, and since I've seen, heard and read a great deal about politics in my life, the matter is unfortunately very obvious. I haven't seen any pictures of Obama flipping anyone off but I did see one of Bush flipping off, although that struck me as somewhat humorous, it wasn't denigrating him in anyway, besides who doesn't do it at some point in their life. The nature of the Bush e-mails were largely humorous and benign in nature, the nature of most Obama e-mails are either racist or very hostile, disingenuous lies and attempts of character assassination. Worlds apart. [quote]
Facts, you must be talking about the thing you fail to use time and time again. Generalizations and assumptions are not facts. You don't even include facts that you use to draw your assumptions on. You make bold blanket statements about a certain political point of view and condemn them. You talk about emails that you have seen, but do not provide any of them as evidence. You claim they are racist, but yet I have never seen one. You should be ashamed to be so hypocritical.
Look, I know there are good people on both sides, but have you ever heard of many (any) liberals saying that Bush wasn't born in the US, claim his birth certificate is fake, that he refuses to honor the pledge of allegiance, that he holds his hand over the wrong side of his chest for the national anthem, that him and his wife did a terrorist "fist bump", etc.? The list goes on and on. Do you ever hear any liberals say that anyone who is pro-war, pro-Bush and pro-Republican are unpatriotic? This is what you constantly hear from the tea party attendees, Fox News, et al. It's not a bias as much as it is a reality of living in the US. The great irony behind it all is that the very people the average Republican champions in D.C. are the ones who will do them the most amount of damage, while it's the Democrats who try to improve the life of the less fortunate, yet they are the ones hated for it. To be more accurate, it is more of a cruel irony than a great one. [quote] So you don't think that it was an absurd attack by the Democratic party to attempt to convince people that Bush had known about the 9/11 attacks before they happened?
"...where was MSNBC two years ago ranting about the Democratic Party's "lunatic fringe" and "wack jobs" when a survey discovered a bigger majority of Democrats (61 percent) think or are not sure if President George W. Bush knew in advance of the 9/11 terrorist attacks?"
How about these billboards (or just doctored photos). Show me where he ever said any of these quotes:
Perhaps they are just creative use of several conversations taken completely out of context and then pasted together? Either way I don't think you will find that he said such things. These were on BILLBOARDS! (possibly)
I can find just as many negative things being said about any political figure as I can about any other. It is the nature of being a high profile public figure.
Now the racist emails you speak of I have not seen. I am not saying they don't exist b/c you and I both know that party affiliation does NOT ensure that someone is or is not a racist. I would be interested in seeing those emails to see if the Republicans, conservatives, moderates or any other party attempts to make claim to them.
I am sure you are going to have an interesting response to all of this. I doubt you will even bother to acknowledge that you were wrong to call someone out for labeling King and then you yourself labeling his `critics'.
I can not make excuses for people who have said or done terrible things. I can not change what people email about the President or any public figure. I can however say that under no circumstance can I simply say "Hey Democrats/Republicans/Libertarians/others you are all evil people with low morals and suspect practices." and be correct in my generalization.
I leave you with this:
"All generalizations are bad, including this one." - ANON
Oh and one other thing. I don't suppose you heard what Democrat Harry Reid said? I am sure what he said wasn't racist b/c that would go against being a Deomcarat accodring to you. Like I said there are negative people on both sides and racism doesn't care what party you are with. (Not saying he is a racist.)
Most of the loudest objections to this quote by King (taken out of context, btw) are not from military personnel and their families, but from conservatives who hate King for his perceived politics and object to almost everything he says.
Also, while recruits are *supposed* to have high school diplomas or GEDs, the military recruiters have been bending a LOT of rules to meet their quotas because our two wars are devouring our resources and wearing out our troops. There are, unfortunately, a lot of high school grads and GEDs who cannot read beyond a third grade level. In other words, they are functionally illiterate. Rural and urban kids who haven't done well academically are being heavily recruited by some branches of the military because they really don't have much of a future other than military service. So King's remark is not all that far off from the truth.
He was addressing students at the time of this comment, and stressing the importance of getting a good education. He was NOT saying the military in general is illiterate and stupid. That's a deliberate distortion of what he was talking about by people who don't think celebrities have any right to speak out politically (unless it's Jon Voight or Stephen Baldwin), and dislike King's politics in general.
As former army and a 40% disabled vet, I see nothing wrong with what he said. Merely stating facts about your options. I was stationed with NCO's who could not read and many who could not speak the english language properly much less hold a civilian job.
Should've known a chick was behind this thread. She thinks she's being real moral, real righteously mad. You want to serve your country and your man? Then don't get your panties in a bunch every time someone exercises their freedom of speech.
Don't even try it S. Cain, whoever the heck you are. No, the Left actually has diverse opinions about Obama; many of us see little difference from the previous administration actually. If the Right doesn't love war, they certainly have a funny way of displaying their distaste. "All they that hate me love death," as the Book of Books says. Cain is a good name for someone clearly on the wrong side of history.
Burt, I believe you must have missed the entire point. I was saying exactly what you said, that you can not make blanket statements and assume it covers the opinions and attitudes of everyone in that group.
The irony is in our country's history, many, many soldiers have fought and died, (or become maimed, disabled, etc.) defending our right to be free. Part of that freedom is being able to speak freely, being able to say what you think, with impunity. That's what SK did. Freedom of speech includes, not only the thoughts and ideas you like and agree with, but also those you don't. (internet discussions would be pretty boring otherwise :)
"This is America. You get to criticize the government in this country. You get to say 'I think these guys are ridiculous', it's guaranteed in the very First Amendment to the Constitution. It's what this country was founded on, you get to do that by being an American." --Richard "Cheech" Marin
The thing that everyone fogets is that these are works of FICTION!!!! The are for ENTERTAINMENT!!!! This world has become so sickingly oversensative about EVERYTHING!!!!! Fiction books, sitcoms, movies etc are for ENERTAINMENT folks get a life already!
Probably back in Stephen King's day the military would accept illiterates but today you would have to know how to read. What I think he meant to say is that even if you have a very basic education (you can read and have a GED) but nothing more, then your options are indeed limited.
You may need a good education to operate a satellite and other high level tasks that no doubt exist in the military, but not for shooting a gun and being your basic "grunt" in the field. The truth of the matter is that alot of people join the military because there is nothing else left for them to do except flip burgers.
The military needs to recruit heavily for the future (especially for the "grunt" positions) and I don't think they care too much about quality education.
In REPLY TO "EL PREZ" ON PAGE 1 OF THIS DISCUSSION
It is not the military's job to serve the public! It is their job to protect it's citizen's and this country's freedom! And without the military - you wouldn't have ANY freedom to express yourself. Consider their great sacrifice. It takes a man or woman of great integrity and character to volunteer their freedom and possibly their own life in service of this great nation! I would know. I have served my country - during Desert Storm and both of my sons have made that committment as well and are off doing their part with 3 major conflicts facing us!! You have no idea the sacrifice until you endure it personally! Criticizing the military is Unpatriotic and Unamerican! It is quite apparent that none of your family members have risked their lives, suffered, or died in service to this great nation. Shame be on you...
If King's intent by commenting the way he did was to start some discussion on several levels about the way we recruit our armed forces (my guess is that it was no accident), he seems to have done just that. Is stimulating discussion something good writers intend? Have you ever read Steinbeck? Twain? Shakespeare? Whether King is in that class is still another discussion and one I won't address, but the point is that social criticism is all over literature if you pay any attention at all... and critical thinking is certainly something to be cultivated. In point of fact, I would contend that literature that is entirely empty of social criticism is so dismally boring as not to be worthy of the name.
Meh. I have a lot of respect for Stephen King, but that was a stupid remark. Honestly it doesn't make any sense. Not only do people in the military run the gamut from dumb-ass to genius, but to some people its a dream job.
@Michael and others who dislike King's remark, read through the posts and you'll see that his remark was taken out of context. This has been debated and proven at great length by others and myself. King has nothing against the military and in fact donated thousands of dollars to his local national guard.
I am a proud vet, and I despise the soldiers now serving. We are engaged in the longest, most costly war in our history. It is an illegal, unconstitutional, and completely unjust war. It has crippled our economy possibly beyond recovery. Every soldier now serving has enlisted or re-upped knowing that.
Yes, times are hard and the US wants the military to be our #1 jobs program. Tough. There are times when you go hungry or homeless to do the right thing. Not murdering and water-boarding and renditioning innocent civilians who want nothing but to be left alone would be pretty high on my list.
At this point, every person in uniform has the patriotic duty, and moral obligation to desert. Every other person has the patriotic and moral duty to aid the soldiers brave enough to do the right thing.
@Richard Walden: Clearly you must have been a peace time service member. Glad you enjoyed your paycheck and lack of wartime service. I am also glad you didn't get to serve during these troubled times and see the good our men and women are doing. I just wish you were still within your obligated service time so you could be tried for sedition.