Customer Reviews

Winter's Heart (The Wheel of Time, Book 9)

5 star:		(285)
4 star:		(283)
3 star:		(181)
2 star:		(175)
1 star:		(185)

 

 

Without giving out spoilers...

The Good:

1) Jordan moves a few of the major plot lines forward. Certain events that we were expecting finally occur along with the revealing of several identities.

2) He returns Mat to the story and provides him with some good chapters.

3) The juvenile romances (among every single couple) are mostly absent.

* It frustrates me not to have more positive things to say about a WoT book.

The Bad:

1) Still overly emphasizes on EVERY female character continuing to either tug at their braids, smooth their skirts, adjust their shawls, blushing, etc.

2) After the last book's cliffhanger of Egwene and her contingent of Aes Sedai approaching the White Tower, Jordan decides to completely skip over that subplot (in the same way that he left Mat out of "Path of Daggers").

3) The prologue is over 70 pgs long. Most of it contains worthless story filler without much happening. The 6 chapters following the prologue mostly involve Perrin and Faile in rotations. They are likewise dull and uneventful.

4) Way too many minor characters with similar names. Keeping track of them all seriously requires an index. As someone pointed out to me in a slight exaggeration... "you need to distinguish Daigian from that other character Dagin, without confusing him from Degian or that scum Dagean." Really hated looking back into the last 8 books to check.

5) Excessive details given to minor characters and scenary. A lot of talking, but a lack of meaningful conversations. What suffers from this is the progression of the story.

The Ugly:

1) Not by any means a large book (625 pgs) considering the large font that Jordan chose to have each page printed in.

2) Waited 2 years for this, book 9 of the WoT, only to learn that Jordan still hasn't recaptured his writing technique from the first 5 books of the series. Although improved from the last 2 books, Winter's Heart continues to show that Jordan is losing control of how to get to the end of this once epic story.

3) Jordan has announced (verbatim) at a recent book signing in San Diego that he "can not complete his vision of the story in fewer than 3 more books." Given that he takes 2 years to write each one... we'll have seen Star Wars Episode 2 & 3 by that time.

Final Thoughts:

I've faithfully been following RJ's acclaimed series and have been a fan since book 1. The first 3 books of the WoT series are his best. RJ has created a rich fantasy world with some great characters and background history, but for all that potential... the writer must keep his audience encaptivated and loyal. After enduring the declining quality of his story writing, it scares me to realize that I'm losing my emotional attachment to the story and its characters. It's no longer a series that I can confidently recommend to my friends and colleagues, knowing that a new reader will find the WoT deteoriate as an engrossing story as they surpass book 5. Why are many once loyal fans of the WoT starting to have serious doubts, some of them leaving the series behind only to pick up another fantasy author's work? It's really a rhetorical question. Some die-hard fans will continue to exalt RJ's work without unbiased eyes. 2 years later, I'll continue to read his work simply for the sake of intellectual curiosity to the story. Meanwhile, I search for other authors who've been "overshadowed" by Jordan's fame (slowly turning to infamy) and publicity, but who've been given genuine praise for their writing in the fantasy genre.

Be warned that this review contains some minor spoilers. Let's be honest - if you have read the Wheel of Time to this point, you'll read it to the end no matter how bad the future installments are. Unfortunately, Robert Jordan realizes this too. Everything in this book and the last two could have been condensed into one, excellent book of the same quality as "The Shadow Rising" or "The Fires of Heaven". But why charge readers for one book, when you can charge them for three?

Jordan's biggest problem, in the words of a good friend of mine, is that he loves keeping secrets for the sake of keeping secrets. For example - in Book 3, a gray man showed up dead in the White Tower. Now, in Book 9 (8 or so years later) we find out that Isam killed that gray man. I only remembered this because I decided to re-read the series for the first time before this one came out. Why keep this a secret? Isam kills two unidentified poeple in this book - I'm sure we'll find out who they were in another 8 years. Every other chapter of Winter's Heart seems to involve either: a) The resolution of some irrelevant plot point left in limbo for years or b) The introduction of a new and equally irrelevant plot point.

Jordan's ability to develop his characters has also apparently whithered. He used to stir and inspire us - for example, Ingtar's redemption in Book 2. Now, his characters almost seem fungible. Why should I care if one sniffing, vomit prone Aes Sedai dies? There are apparently hundreds more just like her ready to take her place. I cared more about what happened to a single minor character in the first few books than I do now about most of the major players in the series.

For that matter, the writing itself is a bit stilted and utterly fails to inspire or energize the reader. Not to give away too much, but there is a battle at the end of the book that involves most of the living Forsaken. Talk about anti-climaxes. For example, Demandred attacks, encounters minor opposition, and just leaves. The battles at Falme and Dumai Wells kept us at the edge of our seat; this one puts us right to bed.

Half-hearted writing about half-hearted characters just doesn't work. Considering what happens at the end of this book, you'd expect some sort of big to-do. Instead, the book just ends. Jordan missed a wonderful opportunity here. A five or six page pro-logue about "after-effects" could have redeemed this entire book.

With that said, I should emphasize that I only criticize this book because it was written by an author of Robert Jordan's caliber. If this were from some minor author, I would be raving about it and recommending it to my friends. But we all know Jordan can do better.

I should also say that, in my experience, there are few people as unforgiving as fantasy and sci-fi fans when it comes to their favorites. Everyone has a bad day, and I think, if we really are fans, we owe it to authors to give them a break and not act like hysterical children when they turn out a sub-par work. Problem is, this is Jordan's 3rd (arguably 4th) sub-par work in a row. I'm starting to think that the quality of this series doesn't have as much to do with Jordan having an "off" day as it does with him holding his readers in contempt. The "five dollars for the pro-logue" fiasco certainly doesn't help Jordan's case.

I, too, have been a reader and rereader of this series since it began a generation ago. This latest book was, AGAIN, disappointing. Jordan and Tor should be concerned, too many people are giving this series up for dead.

Can you remember what those first books were like? Fleeing at breakneck speed from Shadowspawn? The fear? The wonder at this brilliant world, the histories, the cultures, the laws of nature and magic? The amazing women and men? The innocence of the good and the black heart of the evil? Those books made your heart pump! And the characters - just as that first original cover review stated so long ago - seem like old friends.

What happened?

Slow, gradual, decent into mediocrity.

The last several books have been, as many other reviewers have written, fluff. Filler. Spotted with great scenes, but generally shallow and getting shallower. We want to get into it! But at every turn Jordan forces a sigh of agony or a roll of eyes from his readers, by repeating the same descriptive passages, or repeating the same bickering between characters, or repeating the same tired thought threads (Faile...likes to be shouted at...?). Aarrgg! Same thing again! We know already!!

Put some focus into it. Rand and his tragic love square(trapezoid?)? Soap opera? Didn't have to be. Mat as Queens plaything? Overly obnoxious? Didn't have to be. Focus, follow the arc, and move on. Our characters becoming less and less important and powerful? Fine, just tie it together and move forward. New characters, new background, new threads? Fine, but remember the story. Remember why we all came to the table in the first place. Tell the story! Put your back into it man!

Its not too late for this series. Just give us something to cheer for! Cut out the filler, the petty, the repetitous. Give us intrigue! Give us glory! Give us a 300 page battle for Tar Valon! Give us love! Give us Moraine back from the Aelfinn to save the day as the Blight spills shadow over the lands! Give us peril! Aei Sedai at the gates of The Dark Ones prison! Adventure! Passion! Mystery! SOMETHING!!

50 pages at the end of 600 is not putting your back into it.

He needs to stand up to his publisher and swallow his ego. Jordan began as the best voice in fantasy we had seen in ages, but like so many greats before him, has been broken under the weight and fame of this series.

But its not too late...just one powerful book is all we need. It'll feel good to write it. He'll see how satisfying it is. And his numbers will stop dropping off so sharply. Reading bad reviews from the industry as well as fans has got to get old.

First of all, let me say that I too am often amazed and awe-struck by the complexity of the WoT series. It's obvious to me the Robert Jordan's outline alone must have been a huge undertaking. That's what keeps me reading and coming back for more.

However, some of the reviewers here are accusing readers who give this book a less than sterling review of having short attention spans. Anyone who has stayed with the series this long is not suffering from a short attention span. The problem with the series is not the length and it is not necessarily a lack of action. The problem is that the series has gotten stale. The same things and the same descriptions are just being repeated, and they are still being described in the same way. There is too much filler. I don't think most people want to read a description of what each character is wearing unless there's a specific reason. It may have been important earlier in the series that Rand was wearing elaborately embroidered expensive finery while his friends were still dressed in humble country clothes. Now, however, he's simply wears variations on the same outfit, but they're always described in detail.

I'm not surprised that some readers are having trouble remembering the huge cast of characters. Just the similarity of the names alone is becoming an annoyance. Notice anything similar here?: Alaine, Bain, Berelain, Cadsuane, Caredwain, Dain, Deain, Dobraine, Egwene, Elayne, Ellaine, Faolain, Jain, Lain, Logain, Luaine, Melaine, Moiraine, Mordraine, Padan Fain, Raen, Shiaine, Tigraine. It's enough to make Nynaeve tug the braid right off of her head!

I've also noticed the lack of a really evil, frightening foe in the later books. Trollocs were scary in the first book or two, but now they're just fodder. The Forsaken have, for the most part, been too easily overcome. The book needs something like a Balrog to spice things up. The gholam isn't active enough, and I'd like to see the gholam be a much bigger threat.

I, too, am disappointed in the depictions of the women characters. The most ridiculous scene of all was when several groups of women got together to use the Bowl of the Winds and right the world. Strong and capable women should have been willing to put their differences aside and work together, but did they draw together for a common cause? No, they argued back and forth and acted like a group of 10 year olds, even though some of them are supposed to be hundreds of years old. I've seen very little evidence of wisdom among all these "Wise Ones" and "Wisdoms" and whole lot of childish temper tantrums. A bad temper is a sign of weakness, not of strength. The casual attitude toward violent physical punishment among all cultures of women is also disturbing. I'm amazed at the number of times grown women are punished by "switchings" or beatings. Every culture is also obsessed with status, and whoever has the lowest status in the room is forced into doing menial tasks. Just once, I'd like to see the lowest-ranking Aes Sedai have some spunk and say "Pour your own tea, you lazy slob!"

Finally, there's one thing about our Two Rivers heroes that really puzzles me. These characters are still very young, yet they seem to have completely severed all family ties. Rand is understandably hesitant about seeming to care about his hometown, but why hasn't Egwene written to her mother to say, "Hey Mom, guess what? I'm the new Amyrlin Seat." Personally, I can't believe her parents haven't hunted her down and...given her a good "switching"!

First things first: Winter's Heart is a much better book than its two most recent predecessors, A Crown of Swords and The Path of Boredom...er...Daggers. I can't really go into plot specifics about why Book Nine is better without spoiling the story, but I will say that fans who have been waiting for "big stuff" to happen won't be disappointed by the ending of this book. The ending of Book Seven was so abrupt I still have whiplash, but this one is actually good, and in the last chapter an event takes place which is the biggest moment in the series so far. And no, I ain't telling what it is. On the down side, if you were ticked off because Mat wasn't in Book Eight (he is in Book Nine, though), RJ pulls a similar stunt this time around. A major storyline from the previous book is not dealt with, and that's not good. Other than that, if you've read the first eight books, you'll read (and probably enjoy) this one. Still, RJ introduces more plotlines and complications than he resolves. Storylines are left up in the air until Book Ten (at least), there are more dangling threads in this series than on a cheap suit. This series is going at least eleven books, so buckle up, it's going to be a long ride.

I'm a huge fan of Jordan, regardless of the waste of time the first halves of books 7 and 8 were. This book is a breath of fresh air - not only does it finally move the plot along in a direction that makes it look like Jordan might actually complete the series in book 10 (Believe me, if it goes to book 11, I will be fast on my way to losing RJ fandom state), but this book is actually well written! Some of the things that we've been waiting for are finally starting to happen (unfortunately, not all of them, so lets hope book 10 remedies that in 2003...) I won't say more, but the book is good. It's NOT like books 7 and 8.

That's right: for those of you wondering when this series will end, according to my sources--someone at Tor--there will be four more books. Nor has this been a recent development: I have been aware of the projected length since before the release of "Crown of Swords." And there is a certain logic within the context of the story at ending the series with book thirteen. Hopefully this will clarify matters for those of you wishing for a rush to conclusion. Of course, Jordan could always change his mind.

What does this bode for the rest of us waiting to read the remaining four books? I suspect a ratcheting up in the advance of the major plotlines, perhaps hinted at by the conclusion that ends "Winter's Heart." There is little question that, in terms of plot advancement, the last three books have slowed considerably, and many would claim that "Path of Daggers" decidedly lagged. As one of those who defended that book, finding a rationale to its structure justified by a need to establish the set up for events that were to follow in "Winter's Heart," I must say that not all my expectations were fulfilled. At the conclusion to "Path of Daggers," I suspect that many readers--myself included--may have held a reasonable expectation that several major plot threads would be advanced in the following book: Perrin's rescue of Faile and confrontation with Sevanna; Mat's encounter with the Daughter of the Nine Moons and his as yet unrevealed role in countering the Seanchan; Egwene's march to the walls of Tar Valon and confrontation with Elaida; and progress in Rand's movement towards Tarmon Gaidon. Of these four--and there are others--in "Winter's Heart" only two are addressed, and even then just barely. Much of the book instead is devoted to further development of interpersonal relationships and world building, as well as secondary plots. While this is done with the detailed and written skill Jordan has evidenced in his earlier books, it is bound to be a disappointment to those who had hoped for further plot development. While I suspect within the framework of four more books that the pace will begin to pick up--by necessity if not desire--nonetheless "Winter's Heart" must be perceived, along with the preceding two books, as a period in which the series, in terms of major plot development, has slowed.

This does not mean that there are few rewards in reading this work. Jordan again reveals his mastery in world building, especially in the details of the society of Far Madding. Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne are further differentiated, their personalities developing in different, and at times opposite, directions. In separating the many major characters, Jordan has clearly delineated the emerging differences in their personalities, and while they do at times seem a reflection of each other, nonetheless clear changes and development of character are taking place. And the emerging role of relatively new characters--especially Cadsuane--are adding fresh strengths to the story. Finally, Jordan continues to vividly construct the landscape of his world in detail--some would say too much, but I would argue that perhaps no world in fantasy has been realized as fully or successfully.

As an aside, I wish to address some of the criticism of this book, as well as some of the praise. Discussion of Jordan's work has become polarized, and this is unfortunate. In perhaps understandable frustration many have damned this series, while others have risen to its defense. At times this has led to comments and ratings that seem based more upon emotions or partisanship than a considered reflection of the work's faults and merits. Scores and comments ranking any of Jordan's books as trash or deserving of one or two stars ignore the quality of the author's writing, the imaginative character and scope of his tale, regardless of any flaws found in his plot development or characterizations. Equally, those who praise individual books as if they were the second coming ignore, as in the case here, flaws, such as the lack of "Winter's Heart" to significantly advance the major plotlines, instead becoming engrossed in detail and characterization at the expense of developing the story. Despite the rousing conclusion, this book is not the equal of books one through six, and while an improvement upon "Path of Daggers," is not among Jordan's best. While, compared to many other author's works, it may be one of the best books of the season, weighed against the author's earlier work, it is hardly deserving of full marks, anymore than it is deserving of the lowest.

Regardless of one's opinion as to the success of this book or the series--and it is obvious they are divided and many--there is little question that the author is redefining the meaning of epic fantasy, in sheer scale if nothing else. The scope of Jordan's narrative reveals both its richness and its flaws, the latter being evidenced in the author's desire to expand his creation in ancillary, and some would say unnecessary, plot directions, the richness in the equally epic vision revealed in the unfolding narrative, whether at times lagging or not. And even though occasionally the main plotlines appear to lose focus, there is never any sense that the author is not fully in command of his story. Chide him if you wish for stretching out his tale in directions serving their own individual stories, but never doubt that the march is ultimately to Tarmon Gaidon.

I suspect, when this series is finally completed, when it can be read from book one to the end, when it is no longer necessary to wait a couple years between installments, that most readers will find a tale complete in its fulfillment, and that many of the current criticisms that appear to stem from impatience may need reassessment. Of course, this is predicated upon a belief that Jordan will successfully conclude this series, and that the remaining four books will resolve and move more directly to conclusion. If my earlier assessment of his books and intentions are correct, this will be the result. If not, we are in for a disappointment as huge as the scale of this epic.

Did anyone have this problem: I read about 250 pages and was so confused about what was going on because I didn't remember who these people were? The relatively minor characters that are running around performing tasks all over the place, like those sisters hunting Black Ajah in the Tower, had me scrounging around for my copy of PoD so I could look up who they were and what they were doing. I didn't even remember that Morgase was now 'Maigden' or whatever the maid's name is that she's pretending to be. The only reason I remembered that's who it was is because the inside flap of the book says Morgase is a captive. The book itself never even mentions her name. Shouldn't RJ give a little reminder? One quick sentence like "Morgase was getting tired of the charade." I mean it's been 2 years and PoD wasn't that memorable. Most authors do give minor rehashes to keep their audience abreast. It doesn't dumb down the book (too much), and for people like me who don't read the r.a.s.f.w.r.j newsgroup that often, it maintains our sanity.

All that said, I enjoyed this volume even though the ending everyone here had been raving about was rather short and VERY non-descriptive. Sure a momentous event occurs, but the Aes Sedai vs. Forsaken battles are skipped over! "Cyndane approached the Aes Sedai and began to weave the flows..." Then it jumps somewhere else and you never get to read about the One Power battle! Mucho annoying. You only get the aftermath, and that was even quite abbreviated.

On the plus side, several plot mysteries are unraveled, such as the identity of Osangar, the Taim=Demandred issue, and who Cyndane is. (OK, She's back, now where's Moiraine?) Mat finally meets the Dot9M's. And the next book should ROCK due to Rand's success at his project in this book.

So a decent amount of stuff does happen, even though the books are now deceptively shorter than they appear. Anyone notice the older ones, about up to Crown of Swords, the font type was much smaller allowing about 48 lines per page, and with PoD and WH there's only around 30 lines per page? Thats a big difference when dealing with 600+ page books.

Anyway, like the title of the review says, if you've come this far, we all know you're not going to stop now. There's no point in saying "dont read this one!" or "skip it" cuz you cant if you want to finish the story and no one is quitting after digesting 5000 pages of WoT thus far revealed. If he takes another 6 years and 3 books to finish I'll be in my friggin 30's. So write on RJ, you know we'll all still be here to read em. Except for the really old people who die before you finish the series.

Ok, don't get me wrong. I've been a big fan of the Wheel of Time series ever since I picked up Eye of the World. I've read all of the previous books 5+ times. But these last two books have been incredibly frustrating in their lack of plot advancement. Jordan has turned his epic into a soap opera, and for me, the soap bubble has burst.

Winter's Heart spends an enormous number of pages meandering around slowly grinding out yet another maze of twisty little passages, all alike. After all the trouble Rand and his friends went through in the first 8 books fighting the Dark, they have gotten practically nowhere. Sure, maybe Jordan is trying to convey the feeling of futility the characters must feel about what's (not) happening, but with this volume, I think he succeeded a bit too well.

Then, about 30 pages from the end, it appears Mr. Jordan was pressured by the publishers to finish, because it seems as though he suddenly realized he had forgotten to put in a point. I'll admit, those last 30 pages were riveting. But I skimmed the other 630, hoping against hope that something interesting was going to happen to these people I've spent so much time getting to know... and ultimately I discovered that I don't really care any more.

to take a series that once had such promise and absolutely destroy it? The first 4 or 5 books were great, and book 6 was decent. Crown of Swords and Path of Daggers were difficult to get through, mostly because they sucked... they were slow, characters were missing, and the plot was hardly advanced at all. They should have been one-half of one book combined, and would have been, if Jordan had a decent editor (PoD was actually much shorter than the other books, almost as if Jordan pumped it out for a deadline, cash, or both...). At any rate, this newest installment is _slightly_ better than the previous two, but it is not on the level as the first few books. I'm sorry to say that despite the cool ending, I've given up on Jordan from here on out - I discovered WoT when Dragon Reborn came out, and have been a huge fan ever since... but no longer. The cliched, stupid male/female relationships, the invincibility and god-like powers of the main characters, and the ridiculous villains, combined with the poor plotting and lack of a main storyline have all made me decide to throw in the towel. When everything's completed, I may go back and read the remaining novels in paperback if my library has them.

If you're looking for epic fantasy on the scale of Jordan, but with realistic characters, great dialogue and incredible prose, look to George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire saga (starting with the novel A Game of Thrones). Also try out Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy (beginning with The Dragonbone Chair). Both of these works are far better than WoT (in its current state).