The most interesting thing about "The Game" for me is that my women friends actually agree on the book's precepts regarding what makes a male attractive. Its not that they can't ever be attracted to "nice" guys but the personality traits they find "attractive" are very much what the book proposes - guys with a strong "frame" who lead and don't subjugate themselves.
What do YOU think is more subjugating....acting like a CREEP, and trying to subjugate a woman, what, that's not disgusting and sexist?? puh-leeeze. Any self-respecting woman, like me, finds such men that just want to bed women on the basis of their looks, frankly, PATHETIC, AND NOT A LITTLE HYPOCRITICAL. Have most of you guys looked in a mirror? LOL. Newsflash: yes, women do so want a handsome, intelligent man. We may not focus on looks as much as men do (dare I say, most of us seem not to be as materialistic and SHALLOW that way?), but we have standards too. I wish for once a MAN would write a book about wanting to get a woman who totally GETS HIM, not only physically but intellectually, and yes, spiritually as well....but in this age of plastic superficiality and the cyber-pseudo ego, i guess it's too much to ask from the lesser sex, that being the kind of men AND the sorry excuses for women that ascribe to this author's credo. Read this book for a couple of tired laughs at how pathetic some people can get. Lame!
Whoa whoa whoa. That's a lot of hate in there. "Lesser sex"? I find that hypocritical when, in the same paragraph, you throw out the negative s-noun (sexist). Calm down a little. What underlies every/most man/men is the want of someone who DOES GET HIM. Just because we're (mostly) more visual than women, doesn't mean we don't have standards. I feel your perception is a little skewed. Open up a little. My intuition tells me you picked up this book expecting the worst, and you got what you wanted.
Personally, I like the book. I give it to my female friends and ask their opinions on it. I give it to my male friends and ask the same. It's a great story, and the only complaint I have about it is that it be broken down into two books. It's just really long.
Interesting. Dawn's post is the typical regurgitated pseudofeminist / lesbo propaganda so common these days from women. I'd bet my life savings that she falls far from the ideal aesthetically. It's ironic that she would have done better in pre-fem revolution days because that was what spawned this new age of materialism. About the book: what I like about it is that it will finally open a lot of guys eyes, and maybe some girls too. Because PUAs have our pick of women and of course we only pick the hot ones. Every man is hardwired with an instinct to pick the most attractive mate and will only take a fattie if they have no other choice.
Women have been manipulating men for thousands (tens of thousands) of years by assuaging male egos, acting oblivious to to their own(female) strategies, getting the male to think what the woman wants is what he wants and ultimating getting what they, the women, want. It sounds resentful and more than a little hypocritical when a woman complains of men learning how to play the manipulation game.
women don't want us to know the art of seduction/manipulation...because they enjoy having the 'upper-hand' for so long...
especially when it comes to mate selection. We court, they choose.
We are coming from a lower position everytime...while they wander through life's gratifications...without the full realisation of male anguish and responsibility to something we are born with and cannot fight against: desire to love and be close physically.
But hey...having power through sexual choosiness/repression is fun, right? So I doubt women will change. And we probably won't either...but then again...
TO MACKISMO AND THE OTHER GUYS WHO JUST DIDNT GET MY POST--It sounds like you never got a single woman in bed at all, and is pretty typical in fact of men who cant take a woman with a opinion contrary to theirs. To men like you, it seems any woman who isnt a dumb bimbo and falls for the canned crap these sorry excuses for manhood ascribe to, is a lesbian...which ironically enough is what a lot of sex-starved guys seem to be after, the lesbo-bi babe. It sounds to me like you cant take a woman having a negative opinion of a book that reveals just how objectifying some men are towards women in general. And, if youve read this book at all, youll see that the author mentions the fact that women dont have a lot of power in society and never have...and we have the risks of pregnancy, social ostracizing, being calle a slut, etc...and then guys wonder why we dont just fall into bed with any tom dick or harry....tres hypocritical, tsk, tsk... the truism that men dont like fatties or unattractive women also holds for women to an extent, obviously. It just seems to be mainly men who seem to think that the same rules of attraction they use shouldnt hold for them. Lame. Anyway for the rest it just made me laugh. You are an entertaining guess-artist, Ill give you that. But you are so off the mark about me, its just hilarious. In fact, men like these so-called PUA bombed out a lot with me AND my friends. We looked for class, and a personality, not gimmicks. But hey, to each his own. I too have an alternative lifestyle, it includes my wonderful cool exotic husband of 14 years. I am not into the seduction-liars game. I never was, and it always turned me off. Referring to women as targets and objects and dogs...disrespectful and sexist, besides juvenile and very unevolved. Anyhoo..nope, never have lacked for male OR female attention...bc unlike the lame-os who fall for this crap, I know how to treat ppl....like ppl. So I got one for a mate.
TO KENRICK--Dont mistake SEX with LOVE...most of these men are not after love, they just want physical gratification, ok...they want bragging rights and mind control. They are the reason most men themselves grow up to finally realize something vitally important...and then promptly warn their own daughters against. May you have daughters, and grow up one day too.
Give it a glance over and I'm sure that you will agree with the title that a guy that takes on the challenge that this book puts forth would most definitely be considered "superior" to the PUAs out there.
I suppose in telling you that I'm a member of the community you'll accuse me of being a heartless sexhound, you'll call me pathetic, you'll tell me how I objectify and use women, and all that malarky.
Of course... you'd be wrong.
For me the community is not about having a harem. And even if it were, I'm open-minded enough to accept polyamory. Back to the point, the community was about simply trying to stop being that guy who always sat there on the sidelines while every opportunity at romantic fulfillment passed him by. I was socially retarded and couldn't speak to women to save my life.
After joining the community, I had a paradigm shift. I realized that the good boy that most women keep trying to raise men to be is manipulative himself, trying to buy affection with romantic dinners, gifts, and compliments. And women actually got the short draw because they attract men through signs of fertility, but that only lasts for so long. Men attract women with high status, and that can only grow exponentially as we age.
I'm in the community because I want a mutually fulfilling long-term relationship, as do many other guys. But what good is that if we don't have any experience with women at all?
You and many other women say that you aren't the enemy. I agree completely. However... women have been treating men as the enemy for eons before the PUA community developed.
Every PUA concept is something that women came up with first. We just adapted it to make it work for us in order to level the playing field.
Peacocking, for example. Women beat us to that with make-up and fashion.
Routines. Women beat us to that, too. Some goes for freeze-outs. Women figured this stuff out a long time ago, and now it's guys' turn to start figuring out what works.
I've never lied in order to do a pick-up. Which is more than can be said for a lot of women and men alike that I've known. I've suffered all manner of insults and accusations from people like you who know me as nothing more than a name on a computer screen. I've improved myself significantly as a person, and finally feel as if I have a way of bringing my ambitions to life instead of simply dreaming and watching the world go by.
And through it all, the community has taught me an extremely important lesson: women are not to be idolized any more than men because they're both human beings. They both lie and cheat, they both screw up constantly, and they both would delight in seeing everyone but them go down in flames simply because of evolutionary programming that tells you to only look out for you and yours. Some of us just have a better handle on our lives than others.
Again, I have no doubt you'll be swift to pass judgment on me. I expect some amount of namecalling, and I do expect to brush off my points completely. And you'll probably preach some kind of "one, true" method for social success to me, accusing me of using gimmicks and sacrificing my personality and class. All of this even though you have never met me, and the above block of text is only the tiniest sliver of a glimpse into my life that you will likely ever see. But it all needed to be said.
Wow - that was impressively well said A Tomsho. Level the playing field - absolutely valid objective. As a woman, I actually feel for guys who are trying to figure out relationships - most messages are mixed (to say the least), appropriate for one woman -- insulting to another. Yeah, you guys got the short stick on this one. Glad to hear though you have grown and found a comfort level with interacting with women. You are right, we are all human.
Dawn, why are you so angry? (in all your comments not only this). If you really have a good relationship with your husband (I doubt it because you don't seem very happy, but anyway), why don't enjoy your happiness and let the other people enjoy their? Live and let live.
I think like Marco Polo and these months I am alone because I don't enjoy meaningless relationships. When I find a worthy woman who I want to be with, some of the techniques of this book will help me to get her. Is this so awful?
Moreover, there are men who enjoy one-night stands and are happy like that. So what? I know you don't like this but it's not your life. People have the right to look for their happiness in their own ways. Why do you take it so personal?
And what's wrong in manipulating women? Women have been manipulating man with emotional devices for millenia so maybe it's the time we have a bit of this too to level the field a bit. Women always manipulate men to make them think they want what women want. And if they don't succeed they say the man is male chauvinist, inmature, selfish, commitment-phobic or he DON'T TRULY GET IT. The only men who DON'T TRULY GET IT is the ones who do everything women want them to do.
So please live your life and stop nagging and screaming us. We are not your husband.
Peace (your post don't seem peaceful, so I think you will need it).
Well said, most women and men hating on the community have no clue what these guys have been through. Many of them have attempted suicide over not having any physical close contact with a member of the opposite sex, most people here are totally spoiled because they don't know what it's like to be without friends both male and female for close to a decade or more after puberty. Not one clue. I'm certain many in the community have 'developmental issues' which cause them to grow socially at a much slower rate. Other's have had their psyche abused really badly by parents, school, church, etc, it's a bloody miracle they are still alive.
For all the haters out there, if Cho of Virginia tech had gotten into the pickup community and got his social skills and social life straight he would have never killed those people and thats the damn truth, what the kid needed above all else was competence in relating to females and getting female companionship, the guy needed to be LOVED and LIKED, he needed to learning how to make guy and girl friends and he needed a social circle for support, friendship and understanding for life's ups and downs.
No one loves the loser, suicide bomber or underdog. There'd be no one left to crucify. And folks, it's part of the human condition, deal with it. Compartmentalization, rationalization, without those, we wouldn't be able to justify continue paying taxes to support the oil empire or overpriced clothes made in third-world maquiladoras. Don't forget Stalin, The Holocaust, Cambodia, The Nanking Massacre, the trail of tears, slavery/civil war, rwanda, darfur, cathars, aztecs, human sacrifices ... conclusion: weakness invites aggression. Why does the US spends 50% of the total world military budget? Why are women attracted to macho attitude? If there were was zero military, others would help themselves to a guys land, car, mother, sister, wife and children. Does that help clear things up? The strongest survive, reproduce and the weak get bred out. That is the nature of things.
Mordy you have distilled something I have never put into words. Most women have never IMAGINED how painful it is to be a lonely man.
I tried to kill myself in my late teens because I was so lonely. No one had ever taught me how to meet people and make friends, and I did not know how too end my isolation. For a girl who is the least bit attractive, meeting people is automatic, men just walk up to them and start talking. But men need training and practice, and if their father or their friends did not teach them that, they NEED books like this to learn how to make friends and find love.
Our culture is shamefully silent on the topic of male angst. I am sick of this very painful reality that many young teens live through being ignored by the mainstream media. Our culture cries out for people to begin talking about social skills more openly instead of pretending there is some magic "it" which makes people connect.
Take a fattie? That's the problem with most people, women included. Skeptic prior to investigation, prejudiced thinking. Your "men" are not hardwired with an instinct to pick attractive mates, your hardwired to pick through primitive animal "smell" which is a chemistry and that defines the match. If your old, fat, model perfect, geek, or intellectually superior, it won't matter unless there is a chemistry between you. The Challenge is to have the opporunity to explore that chemistry. Thus, the Rules of the Game. I am not a fattie and thorughout my life I have had my pick of men. I am a blonde and a hottie and now a women who at age 58 attracted her lover of age 30, which has now been happy and blissfilled for 3 plus years. I learned that my thinking was damaged by magazines, TV, Film and any media that hypes the perfect body, movie star beauty, prince charming fairy tales et al nauseum. When I transformed my thinking patterns into what makes this man tick, turn on, emotional patterns and turned my thinking into this question "How can I be open to understanding his true nature and loving all that is about that true nature" was I able to attract men who were not only a complete sexual turn on and intellectual turn on but emotionally available to open thier hearts. In the past ten years, I was with a fattie, he was 40 pounds overweight and one of the hottest lovers ever and another that was a man who could not speak my language, he was too thin and too young and one of the most devastingly handsome men I have ever seen, which I try to stay away from as in general in my experience too self-centered to be emotionally available. We need to stop editing and be open and receptive. Stop putting the frame around the man or woman in your mind and move towards opening your heart to the true nature of that person. Date, have fun and explore and try to stay non-attached to the outcome. Dance the dance, accept invitations to dance with anyone who asks you, after all its just a dance and you neve know, the dance may turn into the best dancing partner who will ever meet.
Bill your are so right. Schools do not teach the social skills needed in life and if they do, most teens will not sign up for them, ah Catch 22! I had no skills either and was very insecure about my body and intellect. At times I was popular and then we moved and I was an outcast at school. Roller coaster all the way, drinking and drugs took me out and about and gave me a false sense of confidence while ruining my life. I now have not had anything, alcohol or drugs for over 23 years and changed my thinking about dating, men, relationships et al. There is NO Magic and yet there is Magick. How do we change our culture? What is the solution? Dear Bill, perhaps you can spearhead a new class for teens into thier high school curiculum and make it a requirement not an elective. If that doesn't work, then offer FREE classes for teens in your community. Let's find a way to be the solution and not the problem.
Your wonderful! Right on! Many women simply do not get Men. Somehow women's thinking got screwed up and they think Men should think like they do, big mistake. I am a Woman and I love Men. Skinny, fat, bald, geek, handsome, talented, one night stand men et al. Men and women alike can be really screwed up, abusive, selfish, stupid, emotionally detached and all that is dis-functional about human beings. Doesn't mean we cannot help them and move on if the situation is too toxic for us, stay heart centered open and live and let live.