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Forge of the Elders (Mass Market Paperback)

~ (Author) "A fountain sparkled in the broad, tiled courtyard of the hillside villa, cooling the afternoon breeze and sprinkling the sandaled feet of a lean-muscled young..." (more)
Key Phrases: Eichra Oren, Mister Thoggosh, Aelbraugh Pritsch (more...)
3.7 out of 5 stars  See all reviews (31 customer reviews)

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Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly

Smith's latest outing combines portions of his previously published Contact and Commune and Converse and Conflict with a never-before-seen sequel. Set in the 21st century, this space opera centers on an interplanetary mission dispatched by the United World Soviet to investigate and mine 5023 Eris, an asteroid that has wandered into our solar system. No sooner do the Marxist-quoting American astronauts land than they are greeted by Ailbraugh Pritsch, one of the many aliens that live within the hollowed-out asteroid, and are dragged inside. Within the confines of the alien orb, the astronauts meet Mr. Thoggosh, the giant "nautiloid" in charge of the wandering rock (really a disguised starship). Thoggosh reveals that although he comes from another world, he is a capitalist, in search of the one venture that continues to elude his grasp: the Virtual Drive, which grants its users instantaneous faster-than-light travel. While periodic minor plot developments propel the action, the overall narrative proceeds at glacial speed on the questions of which Earth nation will wipe out the others and claim the asteroid for its own, and of whether Thoggosh & Co. will ever meet "the Predecessors," the creators of the Virtual Drive. Only Smith's less-demanding fans will likely take to this mishmash featuring tired communism jokes and frat-boy space sex. (Apr.)
Copyright 2000 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.


From Kirkus Reviews

A very late arrival from Smith (Bretta Martyn, 1997, etc.). In an alternate world where Marxism triumphed, astronauts from the American Soviet Socialist Republic and their Russian colleagues explore space and encounter dinosaurs, giant capitalist cockroaches, robots, nautiloids, talking dogs, etc. Seems that the brilliant but mysteriously dim-witted Elders blazed a trail in probing probability worlds and multiple realities. Smith's ideas are amusing if unsubtlewith spaceships called McCain, Hatch, Dole, etc., he wears his ideology on his sleevethough fans should find diversion here. -- Copyright ©2000, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Product Details

  • Mass Market Paperback: 640 pages
  • Publisher: Baen (April 3, 2001)
  • Language: English
  • ISBN-10: 0671319825
  • ISBN-13: 978-0671319823
  • Product Dimensions: 6.8 x 4.2 x 1.1 inches
  • Shipping Weight: 10.6 ounces (View shipping rates and policies)
  • Average Customer Review: 3.7 out of 5 stars  See all reviews (31 customer reviews)
  • Amazon.com Sales Rank: #981,175 in Books (See Bestsellers in Books)

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Customer Reviews

31 Reviews
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 (14)
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 (5)
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Average Customer Review
3.7 out of 5 stars (31 customer reviews)
 
 
 
 
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Most Helpful Customer Reviews

 
13 of 14 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars Gave me an "Aha!" moment - well worth my time, May 3, 2000
By Geoffrey Kidd (Berkeley, CA USA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)   
This review is from: Forge Of The Elders (Hardcover)
L. Neil Smith was the author who first got me introduced to libertarianism, and it started a friendship with the ideas and ideals of that philosophy that never wore off. This book was a delight, not only because it finally completes the cycle "Questar" never finished, but because, about halfway through the book, I had one of those wonderful "Aha!" moments. I'll describe it at the end of the review, but that moment made my year!

The story is very well told. Smith *can* be a tad preachy, but it doesn't interrupt the flow of the story, while making sure you understand not only WHAT happens, but WHY. Smith has taken the concept of alternate realities farther than anyone else, and made it a truly living thing. In these days, when our government waves automatic weapons at terrified children, it's a comfort to think that *somewhere* in the multiverse there are people, (and sea-scorpions, and nautiloids, and ...) who HAVEN'T screwed up. This is a book I plan to re-read, and, with the limits on my time these days, I don't do that often.

As to the "Aha!" moment. One of the main characters is "Eichra Oren", a "Moral Debt Assessor" who is a combination of detective, arbitrator, judge, jury, and, if need be, executioner. It hit me about halfway through the book that *ALL* debts are MORAL debts. Money, or any other form of restitution, is simply a tangible expression of that morality. Mr. Smith, if you read this, thank you. A book which hits me like this is a rare and valuable gem.

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8 of 8 people found the following review helpful:
3.0 out of 5 stars (3.5 stars) recommended, but not top-tier Smith work, August 23, 2000
By mike b. (Chicago, IL USA) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Forge Of The Elders (Hardcover)
_Forge of the Elders_ has a lot going for it, but I can't say that it's really the best I've seen from Smith. He expands on a concept earlier explored in _Probability Broach_ and he pokes unsubtle fun at various statist ideas and people but he leaves the book on an unsatisfying note and misses a couple of interesting opportunities.

First, I should say that I am a recent fan of LNS and, politically, I enjoy the preaching as much as any member of the choir. In addition, while this may come across as a negative review, I generally enjoyed _Forge_. That said, I was a little disappointed in a few ways.

With regard to the political message of the book, I think Smith takes the easy way out by contriving such an obviously corrupt and stagnant socialist regime. Even the names were over the top: no state is ever going to be dumb enough to call itself "CountryX Soviet Socialist Republic". Even Ayn Rand, who wasn't exactly known for her subtlety, wasn't that heavy-handed. Where's the challenge in showing that a (literally named) KGB agent and his thuggish enforcers represent a corrupt system?

In my view, the real challenge in libertarian fiction lays in taking a state that's similar to what the average person sees every day, maybe advance things to a somewhat uglier but still recognizable level of statism, and then tear it apart on the basis of what it claims to do well. For example, show that liberty and its requisite free market economy are actually better and more compassionate for people, *particularly* the poor or variously disadvantaged. Perhaps, take a character who is socialist because she worries that innocent children will fall through the cracks in a truly free society and convince her that Libertaria is a better world.

In another area, there was plenty of evolutionary postulation in this book, both political and biological and I enjoyed it. However, Smith spends a lot of time exploring the notion that the older a species is (in terms of how long ago it achieved intelligence), the more it will tend toward a society of libertarian freedom. While there may be something to that idea, it would also interesting to explore how the increased *lifespan* of a species affects its libertarian tendency. This is something very applicable to the relatively near future on (our) Earth. I don't mean this a criticism of _Forge_ so much as just something I'd like to see in a future book and I was reminded of it since several of the species in _Forge_ were very long-lived.

Finally, I agree with a few others that the final section had a certain tacked-on feel to it. Without going into spoiling detail, I'll just say that it read as though Smith decided to rehash the concept in the middle section, but more so.

Overall, I liked _Forge_ and I recommend it. But those new to Smith will probably enjoy _Probability Broach_ and _Pallas_ more.

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14 of 16 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars More Alternate Than Thou, March 31, 2000
This review is from: Forge Of The Elders (Hardcover)
Some readers will think _Forge of the Elders_ is L. Neil Smith's best book so far. He began revolutionizing the alternate world subgenre many years ago with _Probability Broach_. It was comparatively a mild departure from the real world in that the historical difference was the success of the Whiskey Rebellion during Washington's Presidency. A lovely book that I've read at least a dozen times. But _Forge of the Elders_ takes alternate worlds further than ever before. Not to give too much away here, but there is an _infinity_ of parallel worlds, including at least one where homo sapiens never existed, and the Earth is dominated by sapient squid. And these squid know how to travel between the universes. The story, as always with Smith, stands on its own as an adventure. Readers who dig deeper will find lots of scrumptious stuff, including thought-provoking political philosophy, as well as deeply-buried puns and jokes that will reward those who decipher them. Hint: Nero Wolfe fans will find secret messages here. As an adventure novel, _Forge_ is in a league with Tom Clancy's best. As science fiction, it is best compared with _Gulliver's Travels_ and _Mother Night_. As a work of philosophy, it reminds me of _Atlas Shrugged_ and _Moon is a Harsh Mistress_. And somehow, there is a bit of H. P. Lovecraft there, too. Smith is always full of surprises.
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Most Recent Customer Reviews

1.0 out of 5 stars Disappointing
As others of stated already, this is primarily a lecture on extreme Libertianism (ie Anarchy.....sorry, I am Libertarian...not an anarchist..the two are NOT synonymous. Read more
Published on August 15, 2007 by C. A. Grayson

5.0 out of 5 stars From the frying pan into the fire...
This is a three-in-one book, publishing Contact And Commune (renamed First Time The Charm), and Converse And Conflict (named Second To One), with the third and, maybe, final book... Read more
Published on October 8, 2005 by Michael Valdivielso

1.0 out of 5 stars Where's the story?
I can't believe this book is so highly rated, you should all be ashamed of yourselves for propping it up just because you agree with the politics. Read more
Published on September 13, 2005 by JDSX

2.0 out of 5 stars A Slow Read
This novel, divided into three books in one volume, took me the better part of a year to read. The problem for me was the extensive detail, especially to socio-political theory... Read more
Published on October 26, 2002 by Adam Gonnerman

5.0 out of 5 stars L. Neil Smith for President!
I started with Lever Action, his first (and only I believe) non-fiction book. Lever Action led me to his science fiction works. Read more
Published on May 21, 2002 by Joseph P. Silvestri

4.0 out of 5 stars The message is the forte.
The political and moral message of this book overcomes its less-than-excellent writing style and oversimplification of some characters. Read more
Published on April 15, 2002 by Maria Folsom

3.0 out of 5 stars Interesting ideas and story, but the writing...
The story is an interesting concept, and the libertarian themes are well-presented. I can't argue with the philosophy that Smith is putting forward. Read more
Published on January 16, 2002 by Einzige

4.0 out of 5 stars Thought provoking
In this and other novels, the author portrays societies in conflict - where the people of one society live under some flavor of socialism and those of the other society live in... Read more
Published on December 25, 2001 by Jim Hammond

3.0 out of 5 stars improbable fantasy!
The first thing I want to say about Forge of the Elders is that it is way out! I mean, like in way, way out there, man! Read more
Published on December 5, 2001 by Rebecca Brown

5.0 out of 5 stars Finally! The Whole Story?
I acquired the first two books of the trilogy (published separately) after a long search. After I had finished the second book, I was very annoyed that I had been left hanging. Read more
Published on October 16, 2001 by Kevin Sarles

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