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16 of 16 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
"There are some who say...", June 27, 2003
This opening line from Diogenes Laertius (as translated
by Robert Drew Hicks) neatly sums up the approach of
Diogenes in compiling this amazing amount of material
about the ancient philosophers. Some of the material
is valuable, some is stuff...but even the "stuff" is
pretty interesting coming from such an "ancient"
compilier (one dating for Diogenes is (ca. A.D. 225-
250).
According to Herbert S. Long in his "Introduction"
to Vol. 1 (there are 2 volumes in the complete set of
the Loeb Classical Library Diogenes published by Harvard
Univ. Press -- Vol. 1: ISBN 0-674-99203-2 and Vol. 2:
ISBN 0-674-99204-0) -- Diogenes ranges from being a
source of valuable information about the lives of the
ancient philosophers to a source of highly readable,
even entertaining, but sometimes unreliable thought
bites.
A few things Long has to say are: "His account of Plato,
one of his longest, clearly shows how superficial and
unreliable he was [sigh...]." "The tone of his work as
a whole suits better a man of the world who happened to
be interested in philosophers, but more as men and writers
than as philosophers in a technical sense." Which means
that Diogenes can appeal to the general reader who is
interested in anecdotes and fascinating out-of-the-way
puns and "gossip" about the philosophers (as compiled
from tomes of secondary and tertiary sources)-- as well
as to the scholar interested in seeing the effect of
a compiler/synthesizer as a source of information.
According to Long, again, "Diogenes has acquired an
importance out of all proportion to his merits because
the loss of many primary sources and of the earlier
secondary compilations has accidentally left him the
chief continuous source for the history of Greek
philosophy."
Volume I of the 2-volume set includes Books I through
V, containing a "Prologue" and going from the beginning
with Thales in Book I to Aristotle at the beginning of
Book V. Volume II begins with Book VI and goes through
Book X, with Antisthenes at the beginning of Book VI
and ending with the entire Book X devoted to Epicurus.
Diogenes starts out his work by taking to task those
who claim that philosophy arose among the barbarians,
who rest their claims with the Persians and their Magi,
the Babylonians and Assyrians with their Chaldaeans,
the Indians with their Gymnosophists, and the Celts
and Gauls with their Druids.
But Diogenes assertively states: "These authors forget
that the achievements which they attribute to the
barbarians belong to the Greeks, with whom not merely
philosophy but the human race itself began." [!!!]
One example of his interesting material concerns
the ancient figure of "Linus": "Linus again was (so
it is said) the son of Hermes and the Muse Urania. He
composed a poem describing the creation of the world,
the courses of the sun and moon, and the growth of
animals and plants. * * * Linus died in Euboea, slain
by the arrow of Apollo, and this is his epitaph:
Here Theban Linus, whom Urania bore,/ The fair-
crowned Muse, sleeps on a foreign shore."
Very provocative...certainly worth deeper
investigation...so, why not plunk down your dollars and
have a go at Diogenes!
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16 of 17 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
The first history of philosophy by schools of thought, April 14, 1998
Diogenes Lartius' Lives of the Philosophers is a flawed work by an unsinspired thinker and poetaster. His work is, however, indispensable to the student of ancient western thought and writing, as his quotations of many earlier philosophers, poets, and miscellaneous writers, whose works have perished, have left a large body of fragments for the historian to collect and analyze. The organization of Diogenes' work into successions of philosophers and schools of thought provided the foundation for the subsequent organization of the history of ancient philosophy. Interspersed throughout his fascinating book, full of legends and tidbits about the lives of individual philosophers, Diogenes Laertius has preserved entire bibliographies, reports of raging philosophical controversies, as well as poetry (including his own very mediocre compositions). This work is a must-read for the serious student of ancient western thought.
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13 of 14 people found the following review helpful:
4.0 out of 5 stars
On the Importance of Gossip, January 26, 2007
This is yet another Loeb book where I have shamefully lost the companion volume! This is volume II of the 'Lives of Eminent Philosophers' and it has, among many others, sections on Pythagoras, Parmenides, Heraclitus, Zeno, Epicurus and Diogenes - this last is the philosopher-cynic, not our author Diogenes Laertius, who is really little more than a sophisticated gossip. But actually, that is more than a little harsh, this collection of anecdotes is not only fun but it gives us information that is often only mentioned by our author, D. Laertius. Unfortunately, without confirmation, much of what he testifies to is either not accepted or, at the very least, open to question. But for those of us interested in the philosophers, and the relations between them and their ways of philosophizing, this book really is both educational and entertaining.
For instance, on Diogenes (the philosopher-cynic, not our author, the gossip) we read, "Being reproached with begging when Plato did not beg, 'Oh yes,' says he [that is, Diogenes the Philosopher says] 'he does, but when he does so -He holds his head down close, that none may hear.'" It seems that many of the first generation of 'Socratics' were contemptuous of what might be best described as Plato's (ahem) 'kowtowing' to popular opinion. 'Begging' here means (probably) Plato's attempt to influence the City and its Nomos. For many of the other Socratics there was on the one hand Philosophy and there was on the other hand Law (Nomos) and never the two shall meet. But Plato, through his cautious writing, intends to 'influence' the City in order to make it more philosophical - or, at the very least, more friendly to philosophy. Recall that Kojeve once remarked (something to the effect) that once Socrates set foot and began speaking in the marketplace modernity itself becomes inevitable. We always need to add that this supposed 'inevitability' vanishes entirely if Plato chose to live like the philosopher Diogenes did...
But the squabbles and banter between the Socratics Diogenes and Plato can be quite interesting:
"Others tell us that what Diogenes said was, 'I trample upon the pride of Plato,' who retorted, 'Yes Diogenes, with pride of another sort'."
To Plato, who had given him more than he asked, Diogenes said, "So, it seems, you neither give as you are asked nor answer as you are questioned."
"As Plato was conversing about Ideas using the nouns 'tablehood' and 'cuphood,' he said, 'Table and cup I see; but your tablehood and cuphood, Plato, I can nowise see.' 'That's readily accounted for,' said Plato, 'for you have the eyes to see the visible table and cup; but not the understanding by which ideal tablehood and cuphood are discerned'."
So we see that Diogenes is not ready to follow Plato into his Ideal world. Diogenes questions, as he did obliquely in our first quote above, the 'honesty' of Plato. It seems that Plato is 'purposefully' unclear. And keep in mind that it isn't only Diogenes who thinks so. Epicurus goes so far as to refer to Plato's school as 'the toadies of Dionysius'!
Nietzsche has a wonderful comment on this remark of Epicurus that might be apposite here:
How malicious philosophers can be! I know of nothing more venomous than the joke Epicurus permitted himself against Plato and the Platonists; he called them Dionysiokolakes. That means literally - and this is the foreground meaning -"flatterers of Dionysius," in other words, tyrant's baggage and lickspittles; but addition to this he also wants to say, "they are all actors, there is nothing genuine about them" (for Dionysiokolax was a popular name for an actor). And the latter is really the malice that Epicurus aimed at Plato: he was peeved by the grandiose manner, the mise en scene at which Plato and his disciples were so expert - at which Epicurus was not an expert - he, that old schoolmaster from Samos who sat, hidden away, in his little garden at Athens and wrote three hundred books - who knows? perhaps from rage and ambition against Plato? It took a hundred years until Greece found out who this garden god, Epicurus, had been - did they find out? (Beyond Good & Evil, Section 7)
So you see, the 'malicious' little joke by Epicurus that D. Laertius mentions in his 'Lives' (and the pride that aimed the remark) were worth a comment by a philosopher of the stature of Nietzsche. The joke, btw, is that Plato flattered the powerful by 'acting' (i.e., writing) in a manner they would consider both flattering and wise; and thus, hopefully, influencing the behavior of the powerful by the wise. It is in this manner that the few dozen dialogues of Plato began a tendency in Philosophy that results in, as Kojeve said, our 'enlightened' modernity.
You see what clues are available even in the gossip that has grown up around the philosophers! One stands in awe of how different the world would be if Plato had followed Diogenes and lived like a dog...
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