Amazon.com: So Help Me God: The Founding Fathers and the First Great Battle Over Church and State: Forrest Church: Books

From Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. Those who think that the past holds clear and reassuring lessons for today will be hard put to find them here. In this beautifully crafted and timely work, the aptly named Church (minister of Manhattan's Unitarian All Souls Church and author or editor of 22 books) takes us through the complex thoughts and actions of the nation's founders in a way that will give pause to most readers. Each of the nation's first five presidents saw the relationship between government and religion differently; each thought and acted in surprising ways not always in harmony with their private beliefs. What united them, says Church, was a deep commitment to the nation's welfare as they defined it. This civil religion, grounded in Protestant moral convictions, often took distinctive form, e.g., Washington lashing out at clerical interference in government and James Madison declaring four national fast days. The issues roiling their day were not ours, but they were equally fraught and equally unresolved. Church, who's too severe and present-minded about John Adams, makes clear that the tangled historic links between religion and politics were built into American history from the start and are unlikely to be dissolved. This is an important work that delights and informs. (Sept.)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

Review

ADVANCE PRAISE FOR SO HELP ME GOD

"A wide-angled view of the whole history of the early republic. Solid and scintillating." --Edwin S. Gaustad, author of Sworn on the Altar of God

"Magnificently combines a comprehensive knowledge of the history of the American presidency, a sophisticated appreciation for the intricacies of American politics, and a surpassing understanding of the role of religion in American life." --Senator Gary Hart, author of James Monroe

See all Editorial Reviews

Product Details

Hardcover: 544 pages
Publisher: Harcourt; 1 edition (September 10, 2007)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0151011850
ISBN-13: 978-0151011858
Product Dimensions: 9.1 x 6.4 x 1.8 inches
Shipping Weight: 1.9 pounds (View shipping rates and policies)

Average Customer Review: 4.7 out of 5 stars See all reviews (10 customer reviews)

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #610,327 in Books (See Bestsellers in Books)

Would you like to update product info or give feedback on images?

Inside This Book (learn more)

Key Phrases - Statistically Improbable Phrases (SIPs): (learn more)
black regiment, presidential mansion, grand architect, churchgoing animal, sacred politics, voluntary establishment, sacred liberty

Key Phrases - Capitalized Phrases (CAPs): (learn more)
New England, United States, White House, John Adams, George Washington, New York, Timothy Dwight, Fourth of July, Jedidiah Morse, Thomas Jefferson, Mount Vernon, James Madison, Bill of Rights, General Washington, Great Britain, French Revolution, John Leland, Margaret Smith, President Monroe, Standing Order, Alexander Hamilton, Abigail Adams, Holy Alliance, Declaration of Independence, John Quincy

What Do Customers Ultimately Buy After Viewing This Item?

	73% buy the item featured on this page: So Help Me God: The Founding Fathers and the First Great Battle Over Church and State 4.7 out of 5 stars (10) $21.28
	14% buy Love & Death: My Journey through the Valley of the Shadow (Complete Works of Forrest Church) 4.9 out of 5 stars (10) $14.30
	4% buy The Separation of Church and State: Writings on a Fundamental Freedom by America's Founders 3.8 out of 5 stars (4) $12.00
	4% buy Freedom from Fear: Finding the Courage to Act, Love, and Be 5.0 out of 5 stars (1)

Explore similar items

Tags Customers Associate with This Product

(What's this?)

Click on a tag to find related items, discussions, and people.

american history(4)

politics and religion(3)

church(2)

christianity(1)

faith(1)

history(1)

progressive christianity(1)

religion(1)

state(1)

Help others find this product — tag it for Amazon search

No one has tagged this product for Amazon search yet. Why not be the first to suggest a search for which it should appear?

Sell a Digital Version of This Book in the Kindle Store

If you are a publisher or author and hold the digital rights to a book, you can sell a digital version of it in our Kindle Store. Learn more

Customer Reviews

10 Reviews

5 star:		(7)
4 star:		(3)
3 star:		(0)
2 star:		(0)
1 star:		(0)

Average Customer Review

4.7 out of 5 stars (10 customer reviews)

Share your thoughts with other customers:

Create your own review

Most Helpful Customer Reviews

8 of 8 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars AGE-OLD BATTLE IN THE NEW WORLD, October 28, 2007

By	Laura Pedersen (New York, NY USA) - See all my reviews

Forrest Church unites history and criticism in a timely, readable, informative and entertaining book about the role our Founding Fathers played in the great debate over separation of church and state. This tale of drama and trauma is rich with American history and the surprises that make for any gripping story - for instance, that the Unitarians, Congregationalists and Episcopalians were in favor of a Christian Nation whereas the Baptists championed the separation of church and state. As a result of being religious outsiders, the Baptists knew that they'd be persecuted if not protected under the newly formed American government. Also, how the War of 1812 nearly resulted in New England seceding from the Union to establish a Christian Commonwealth. A wonderful way with detail (and an enormous amount of research) provides reflections on the players and their time. Regarding the relationship between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson - "Theirs was a friendship between the Red Queen and the Cheshire Cat. At the slightest provocation, Adams shouted, 'Off with their heads'; at the first hint of conflict, Jefferson disappeared until nothing remained but his smile." Rev. Church offers insights on the way in which parallel battles over personal freedom continue today, not only with regard to teaching creationism in schools and allowing commandments in courthouses, but the current struggle over how much liberty must be sacrificed for security. Likewise, Rev. Church points out how wartime has always brought church and state closer together (during the Civil War "in God we trust" first appeared on our money), and in peacetime the two diverge. This cleverly crafted account of our nation's founders grappling with religion is a must read for anyone interested in theology, history, or politics (no coincidence that Rev. Church is the son of Idaho Senator Frank Church). It's not often one can say that a new book about an old debate covers fresh ground, but in addition to that, SO HELP ME GOD serves to inform as well as to warn, successfully fulfilling the task of a steadfast and faithful minister (at the Unitarian Church of All Souls in New York City).

Comment Comment | Permalink | Was this review helpful to you? Yes No (Report this)

8 of 9 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars Did Washington Really Say These Words?, December 24, 2007

By	The Spinozanator (Waco, Texas) - See all my reviews (TOP 500 REVIEWER)

For those who think the first five presidents were devout Christians, the news is not good. Nor is the news good for those who think the country was non-religious. There was indeed a "culture war" going on and the arguments were not unlike today's insultfest. Also like today, mutual slanders were propagated by the media, the politicians, and the pulpit. Some things never change.

* Only Adams was a church-goer all his life. Washington, Jefferson, and Madison attended church when living in the White House, seldom otherwise. Monroe didn't go even when he was President. They all doubted the divinity of Christ but all utilized a semblance of faith when it fit their agenda. From the onset in American politics, religion ended up being manipulated for political gain.

* Washington scrupulously avoided the slightest hint of religious favoritism and would not abide any sectarian interference in the affairs of state. By the end of his second term, established church leaders were openly disenchanted with his ambiguous religious posture. He probably did say "So help me God" at his inauguration.

* There would have been no Bill of Rights if it weren't for the Danbury Baptists of Connecticut. Madison and others thought a Bill of Rights was redundant but he needed their support for ratification of the Constitution. In exchange, he presented and fought for a Bill of Rights in the new Congress.

* The Federalist party (mainly northern) was a coalition between those who wanted a strong federal government and the existing controlling Christian denominations (Presbyterians, Unitarians, Congregationalists, Anglicans). The Democratic/Republican party (mainly southern) was a coalition between those influenced by the European Enlightenment (Jefferson, et al) and the minority sects who were not powerful in any state (Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Jews).

* Monroe was secular to the bone, too disinterested in religion to be disrespectful about anyone's cherished beliefs. His administration was the beneficiary of religious peace as the New England Federalist clerics lost their political franchise. States gradually relinquished support and entanglements with their pet denominations and churches doubled their enrollment. Separation of church and state appears to have helped religion flourish.

An Epilogue records the last days of each President and reminds us that dying memorably is an art. "Tis well," Washington affirmed, summing up his magnificent life in two tiny words. Monroe held on until July 4, 1831, the 55th anniversary of Independence Day. Unfortunately, Adams and Jefferson had done it first, July 4, 1826. Madison made his quieter exit six days before July 4, 1836.

Both sides mentioned in my opening paragraph cherry-pick their data to prove that the colonists and founding fathers were or weren't religious. This book settles the score. As usual, things are not black and white nor even gray - more like black and white paint mixed together, haphazardly stirred. Church is a lifelong scholar of early US history. He provides plenty of references and his assessments appear to this nonhistorian to be accurate. I guarantee you will be enthralled.

Comment Comments (2) | Permalink | Was this review helpful to you? Yes No (Report this)

5 of 5 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars A GREAT READ, October 29, 2007

By	William Pietersen (Vero Beach, FL) - See all my reviews

I'm a business professor and native South African but thoroughly enjoyed this informative and entertaining look at American history. Church has a clever and accessible style that brings the times and characters to life without sacrificing scholarship (which can be found in abundance). It's much easier to understand today's culture wars when you read how they began. Church is extremely knowledgable on Thomas Jefferson and does a terrific job of incorporating recent findings, including his relationship with Sally Hemings and the question of slavery.

Comment Comment | Permalink | Was this review helpful to you? Yes No (Report this)

Share your thoughts with other customers: Create your own review

› See all 10 customer reviews...

Most Recent Customer Reviews

5.0 out of 5 stars A real page turner!
I just finished reading SO HELP ME GOD and have already begun a second read-through. I am so excited by what I've read. Read more

Published 16 months ago by David E. Grimm

4.0 out of 5 stars Excellent, but would have liked a bit more of their behavior
Church has given us an excellent description and analysis of the stances on religion of the first presidents of the US, from Washington through Monroe. Read more

Published 18 months ago by Bobby Newman

4.0 out of 5 stars First US religious/cultural war
The subtitle describes pretty well the content of this book, which aims to describe the first great cultural war in American political history. Read more

Published 19 months ago by C�sar Gonz�lez Rouco

4.0 out of 5 stars Excellent Read with Good Insight
I was attracted to this book because of the Author and some prior experience I've had with other writings of his. Read more

Published 19 months ago by B. Breen

5.0 out of 5 stars An excellent choice for both religious and history collections
SO HELP ME GOD: THE FOUNDING FATHERS AND THE FIRST GREAT BATTLE OVER CHURCH AND STATE will prove an excellent choice for both religious and history collections from the young... Read more

Published 19 months ago by Midwest Book Review

5.0 out of 5 stars 21st Century P.O.V.
Reviewed by Jamie Driggers

Separation of church and state has been a contentious issue on both sides of the discussion for many a year. Read more

Published 19 months ago by armchairinterviews.com

5.0 out of 5 stars So Help Me God
I found this a very readable and very persuasive book. Forrest Church writes with the passion of a liberal theologian and the insight of a skilled historian. Read more

Published 20 months ago by Robert B. Oxnam

› See all 10 customer reviews...

.jsOffDisplayBlock { display: block; } .jsOffDisplayInline { display: inline; } .jsOffVisibility { visibility: visible; } .jsOnDisplayBlock { display: none; } .jsOnDisplayNoneBlock { display: block; } .jsOnDisplayNoneInline { display: inline; } .jsOnDisplayInline { display: none; } .jsOnVisibility { visibility: hidden; } .jsOnDisplayBlock { display: none; } .jsOnDisplayInline { display: none; } .jsOnVisibility { visibility: hidden; }

Customer Discussions

Beta (What's this?)

New! See all customer communities, and bookmark your communities to keep track of them.

This product's forum (1 discussion)

	Discussion	Replies	Latest Post
	Appendix Did George Washington say, 'So help me God,'?	0	August 2007

› See all discussions...

Start a new discussion

Topic:

First post:

Receive e-mail when new posts are made

Prompts for sign-in

[Cancel]

Guidelines

Active discussions in related forums

Discussion	Replies	Latest Post
religion I think the 'Why do the religious hate gays?' Thread just got deleted	731	1 second ago
christianity Why the Gospels are unreliable	3862	9 seconds ago
religion Hey, Theists, why do you find the notion(s) of "evidence" and of "proof" so troubling?	1445	1 minute ago
christianity Assurance of salvation is the essence of saving faith. Right or Wrong?	2831	1 minute ago
history Did we eat the Neanderthals?	74	2 minutes ago
history Islam: the Facade and the Facts	541	5 minutes ago
american history Was America Founded By Genocide?	127	51 minutes ago
american history Recommend a book on the Haymarket Affair	10	1 hour ago