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Doom and Gloom in 2012?


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Initial post: Aug 18, 2009 8:54:28 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 18, 2009 9:08:54 AM PDT
I have no opinion one way or the other on the predictions from the Mayan calendar's end-date, and other prophets (like Nostradomus and Edgar Cayce), about total disaster awaiting Earth on December 23, 2012. Predictions of exactly what is going to happen, range from Planet X's approach, to crustal displacement, to pole reversals, to an ET invasion.

Many sites discuss these doom-and-gloom predictions, such as:

--- Wikipedia (multiple 2012 entries)

--- 2012prediction.net

--- 2012endofdays.org

What I've found most interesting, however, are the deadly-serious sites which discuss how to survive this alleged 2012 disaster:

--- instituteforhumancontinuity.org claims to have had scientists on board for decades, and are proposing survival "initiatives".

--- arc-space.wetpaint.com is a site for the "Alliance to Rescue Civilization" (ARC).

--- kubarev.ru/english/content is a Russian site for "Program Ark Russia".

Your thoughts?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 18, 2009 10:34:53 AM PDT
Av Green says:
hi. 12/21/2012, not 12/23/2012. And what about Vonda (she predicted that a black man will become a president in US after a white man wins the presidency 3 more times, during the first term of Clinton. Bill Clinton won once again, and then Bush won twice. On the fourth time, a black man became the president). Also, what about the Egyptian calendar, the Chinese system (forgot what its called), and the modern Web Bot (research it), all of which predict catastrophic changes in 2012? NASA predicts heightened solar activity in 2012 as well...

Posted on Aug 19, 2009 8:54:17 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 19, 2009 9:12:46 AM PDT
Hi Avraham!

Thanks for the interesting post. Sounds like a variety of speculation that "something" is going to happen in 2012.

I've never heard of Vonda. What does she, and the other sources you named, think is going to happen, specifically?

I checked out the web-bots predictions. Curious thing I've noticed about "predictions", is that they may start out with a grain of truth, but then they go to the most negative extreme. They never seem to account for "rectifying" actions, that spring forth when something negative and widespread starts. (Maybe that's their real purpose -- to scare everyone into being on the lookout for just such a doom-and-gloom scenario starting.)

Case in point, was their "prediction" that the U.S. dollar will fall to the point that it will no longer be accepted by foreign governments. Yes, the dollar is weak right now, but no foreign governments that I know of have refused to accept it. (How could they, with all the foreign aid we give them?)

Their harping on the degradation of our "magnetosphere" was interesting, in that people will feel out-of-sorts and agitated. I have noticed that, but I thought it was all the wi-fi, cell phone towers and other electronic energies zipping around under the magnetosphere. (There were studies in the past, that found that children living under or near power transformers developed significantly more cancer. So there is certainly potential for harm from all these new energies that go around and thru us everyday.)

As an engineer, Avraham, what are your thoughts on my above paragraph?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 19, 2009 10:28:37 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 19, 2009 10:30:18 AM PDT
Av Green says:
hi Marilyn. Vonda is a polish extra-sense woman who became famous in the late 1980s in Eastern Europe for her accurate predictions. She is a blind woman. She predicted Obama's presidency approx. 14 years ago, and named a year when he'll become a US president. I specifically remember reading that prediction and giving myself a promise not to forget it and to see if it actually comes true. It did last year, just like she said it would. I am pretty sure that the Web Bot also predicted 911, named NY as the location for the event, and narrowed the time of the event down to +/- 30 days of 09/11/2001. Pretty amazing. As an engineer, I think that your post is just fine. Why do you ask?

Posted on Aug 20, 2009 8:17:55 AM PDT
Hi Avraham!

Thanks for the details of who Vonda is. I'll look her up in wikipedia also.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough. I was asking if you agreed that there are unhealthy energies out there, after all the advances in electronics. (There's been discussion about brain cancer with people on their cell phones all the time.) As an engineer, do you agree with this? Or can you add any more details? Will the day soon come when we'll line our bedrooms, at least, with material to block out all these extraneous energies while we sleep?

Posted on Aug 20, 2009 9:25:44 AM PDT
Av Green says:
Hi Marilyn. Thanks for clarifying that. Unfortunately, I don't know how to answer to your question about negative energies because I am not that kind of engineer. I am an automotive engineer, and I used to specialize in metal fabrications and dimensional engineering. Now I work with a team of engineers on developing in-car, voice activated communication and entertainment systems, mainly dealing with electronics and software development.
Do you think that we'll have to line up our bedroom walls with aluminum foil?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 20, 2009 10:53:37 AM PDT
Hi Avraham!

Thanks for clearing up the confusion, as to the kind of "engineer" you are. Still sounds like a fascinating career!

The tinfoil-on-walls made me chuckle. Although, with all the people suffering from insomnia and reaching for bottles of sleeping pills, maybe some kind of bedroom wall lining might actually make more sense. And be more cost-effective than all the sleeping pills, in the long run.

I don't have a clue what kind of lining would keep out these extraneous electronic energies. Panels? Special paint? Do you have any ideas?

Also, since you are interested in the UFO files released in the UK, I found a website you may be interested in. newsy.com/ufosightings is a UK site, with links to all the major UK media stories on the released files. Very interesting! (Just beware the You Tube links. Many of the most impressive UFO videos look seriously manufactured, or PhotoShop'd.)

Cheers!

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 20, 2009 11:28:39 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"I don't have a clue what kind of lining would keep out these extraneous electronic energies. Panels? Special paint? Do you have any ideas?"

The standard and simplest technique is a Faraday Cage where the conductor is thick enough and the holes smaller than the wavelength of the electromagnetic radiation to be blocked. There are other techniques that be used, applicable to different wavelengths.

Posted on Aug 24, 2009 10:24:20 PM PDT
My son and I saw the trailer for 2012 when we went to the movies the other week. Coming out mid-November. It looks like it has a lot of good effects if you like those types of movies. Check it out at http://www.whowillsurvive2012.com/ My favorite line is "I thought we had more time."

Mr. Helsdon is correct - a Faraday cage keeps out all those unwanted electro waves. A microwave oven has one to keep the microwaves inside. But, I would just go with the tinfoil hats like in the movie "Signs". Much more stylish.

Posted on Aug 24, 2009 10:48:13 PM PDT
By the way, I'm old enough to have gone through a number of these disaster predictions. Remember when many of the planets were aligning in a fairly straight line back in the year 2000 and they predicted massive earthquakes, etc? (Anyone who knew about gravity could calculate that the effect on the earth would be miniscule, but that didn't stop folks from saying that all the volcanoes would erupt and other dire stuff).

So, I don't buy that anything will happen in 2012. Those ancient predictions are just another added to the litany of doomsday predictions. Still, I'm going to the movie and I'm going to have fun! BTW - if this is the end of the world, how come some folks think that it will be survivable? Doesn't that go against the prediction?

I would worry more about real things like the asteroid Apophis hitting the earth (much later) or the magnetic poles flipping (which they are in the process of doing after 780,000 years) which would remove the Van Allen radiation belts that protect us from solar flairs and other nasty stuff.

Besides, if this happens I will be REALLY ANNOYED that I won't find out how the Final Chronicles of Thomas Covenant will end. I read the first volume of the original series back in 1979 and there's no way I'm dying until I find out how it all ends. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately for humanity?) Stephen Donaldson is not on pace to finish the series by 12/2012.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 24, 2009 11:07:01 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 24, 2009 11:08:33 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
R.A. Lee,

"But, I would just go with the tinfoil hats like in the movie "Signs". Much more stylish. "

It's amusing that these 'tin foil' hats actually would *amplify* the reception of many radio frequencies. So the 'tin foil' hat brigade are setting themselves up as more efficient receivers! [If there were anyone attempting to control their 'minds'.]

Very funny.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 25, 2009 8:25:01 AM PDT
Thanks for posting, RA!

Yes, these doom-and-gloom scenarios play out every so many years. (Remember the cult that committed suicide so their souls could hitch a ride on a passing comet?)

The magnetic poles reversing has been discussed for quite awhile. Do you see this as a natural occurence, after thousands of years of stress/strain building up? Or caused by an outside force?

Thanks again for adding something interesting and positive to this discussion.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 25, 2009 10:52:54 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"The magnetic poles reversing has been discussed for quite awhile. Do you see this as a natural occurence, after thousands of years of stress/strain building up? Or caused by an outside force?"

This is a natural, is slightly chaotic process, because of the dynamo theory of how the geomagnetic field is generated [the molten iron in the Earth's core flows freely, taking free electrons with it and the movement of charged particles sets up a magnetic field with its poles in the North and South Polar Regions] and/or events which disrupt the flow in the Earth's core such as when plate tectonics results in a continental slab diving (slowly) down into the mantle at a subduction zone, when new mantle plumes arrive from the core-mantle boundary, and possibly very large impact events. The magnetic poles wander over time, which is why magnetic north differs from true north.

It is going on all the time though there have been rare times, such as the Cretaceous Long Normal Superchron, Jurassic Quiet Zone, and the Kiaman Long Reversed Superchron (roughly the late Carboniferous to the late Permian) when there has been no reversal for millions of year.

The next reversal appears due in one or two thousand years. The actual date cannot be predicted but it certainly won't be in 2012. If and when it happens, it won't be a Doomsday scenario, because homo erectus lived through the last geomagnetic shift and there's no evidence of any mass extinctions at that time. At worst, some satellites may malfunction and it may confuse migrating birds and insects.

Posted on Aug 27, 2009 4:56:08 PM PDT
Phwew - thanks, Martin! I feel much better.

Posted on Aug 28, 2009 1:02:57 PM PDT
I've been bouncing around the internet, trying to find a concensus of predictions for 2012. Which I didn't find.

However, as often happens if you don't have a closed-mind, I happened upon a couple of interesting "predictors". Gerald Celente (trendsresearch.com) bases his down-to-Earth predictions on the study of "trends". And the Russian Professor (and ex-KGB Agent) Igor Panarin has some interesting predictions. He's not too kind about the future of the U.S., naturally, but his background provides him with an interesting perspective, relative to "predictions".

Posted on Aug 28, 2009 3:30:55 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 28, 2009 3:32:08 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Hmm, these are not mystical predictions, but trends based on analysis of past events warped by more than a little political/nationalist wishful thinking. Nothing to do with 2012 millenarianism/eschatology.

"Gerald Celente (trendsresearch.com) bases his down-to-Earth predictions on the study of "trends"."

Gold at $2000 and the disintegration of the USA... This prediction is very popular in Russia and in certain other political circles.

"And the Russian Professor (and ex-KGB Agent) Igor Panarin has some interesting predictions."

American total economic collapse and civil war in... 2010. Not 2012?

So Alaska returns to Russia, Atlantic America joins the EU, the west goes to China, the South to Mexico and the rest to Canada. Prof. Panarin obviously doesn't have an axe to grind and his prediction for the rise of a 'new' Eurasian super power is equally unbiased.

Everyone knows that the USA is going to be eaten by a giant alien space bat, not suffer a Yugoslavian-style disintegration. 9-)

Posted on Aug 28, 2009 4:53:39 PM PDT
Of course, you have to be careful with using 'trends' as your technique for predicting the future. I read this quote once-> "Using trends is like steering by only looking at the rear view mirror."

What always drove me crazy when I was in business (before retirement) was seeing technology trend graphs that exponentially grew forever. They never flattened out or maxed out.

I had a financial advisor tell me that he was recommending his clients buy gold as a hedge. I didn't do it, mainly because it also drives me crazy that all the ads that tell you to buy gold show prices since 1998 growing exponentially. Of course, they neglect to tell you that gold went up hugely in the late 1970s and then crashed and stayed that way for 20 years!! Search on google for "historical gold prices" and click the first link, then down near the lower right click the button for prices from 1975-present. If gold does go up to $2,000, you better be careful and sell quick when it starts to come down.

Sorry to go a bit off topic, but it shows how you need to be careful of 'trends' and ALSO you need to ask how long that trend has been going on and what the data looks like before the start of the trend.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2009 11:20:15 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"What always drove me crazy when I was in business (before retirement) was seeing technology trend graphs that exponentially grew forever. They never flattened out or maxed out."

There's liable to be a point where technological enhancement is limited by the physical properties of available materials.

As for gold, it won't help much in a total economical collapse because you can't eat it...

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2009 8:37:58 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 29, 2009 8:39:32 AM PDT
Hi Bob!

I agree, so much in business is subjective analysis, despite all the graphs and trends. And this shows up in "trends" that don't live up to any "predictions". Mostly because there are always outside foces that the trend-types never see coming, or take into consideration.

(A bunch of people buried a box of predictions around 1950. Fifty years later it was dug up. The one monumental key factor absolutely no one predicted -- and which probably impinged on all the predictions -- was the internet.)

Your analysis of the gold market is very interesting. Personally, I wouldn't be buying gold at any price. A few too many ambitious companies out there, currently wrestling with technology, who are determined to be the first extra-terrestrial miners of asteroids and comets for water and gold. (You might want to check out the discussion in the Science Fiction forum I started awhile back, "Race To Space: Commercial, Tourist or Exploration?")

In the 1960s, a British doctor started a "British Premonitions Bureau", to collect and compare premonitions from one and all, to try and have a sort of "advance warning" about disasters. Today it's called the "Central Premonitions Registry" (mainportals.com), although I can't recall reading about any major disaster they warned about.

Thanks again for adding something interesting and positive to this discussion. Cheers!

Posted on Aug 29, 2009 12:23:24 PM PDT
Well, now that I'm back from having been distracted by the 'what would you ask a Genie for' survey on the mainportals site, http://mainportals.com/precog.shtml would be a more appropriate link, but they didn't have much there. More interesting might be http://www.spr.ac.uk/expcms/index.php?section=1 but you need to register to use their library.

Posted on Sep 1, 2009 10:07:11 AM PDT
To anyone interested, Avraham is discussing this topic in his latest "Do Aliens Really Exist?" posting. And the Maya are discussed in one or more of the "Evidence Of ET Interference ..." discussions.

All good topics, with plenty of room for intelligent and positive discussion!

Posted on Sep 9, 2009 2:12:21 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
"However, as often happens if you don't have a closed-mind..."

Any ole crap can float in and get lodged between yer ears! :D

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2009 10:37:55 PM PDT
There's one more item that could be added here, and that's the "Prophecy of the Popes". We only have 1 more pope supposedly before the end judgment. If the current pope, Pope Benedict XVI, dies some time before 12/21/12 I'm heading for the hills!

Posted on Sep 12, 2009 5:34:49 AM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
Is it true his mitre is lined with lead, to protect him from psychospiritual emanations beamed at his noggin by satanic Grays? I heard that somewhere ... or made it up just now.

Now, when the pole reversal takes place, wouldn't that cause his protective head-of-the-church-ware to fall over? Or mightn't it set up an electric current that will give him a nasty electroshock?!

This would be just SO LIKE the Devil, to arrange something like that to happen at the very time the world needs Papa's guidance the most!

(Dayum ... it's scary how easy it is to fall into the mode of mind needed to write this shtuff. :o )

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 12, 2009 8:06:55 AM PDT
Hi Bob!

Wikipedia has quite an extensive entry under "Prophecy of the Popes". Although it states that "Interpretations made before the elections of recent popes have generally turned out not to predict their papacies accurately."

Although I do see a white/black contrast between the late, great Pope John Paul, and the current pope, who is unraveling much of the Global Good Will John Paul spent decades building.

As always, time will tell ...
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