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Alien Structures on the Moon


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Initial post: Oct 16, 2010 1:14:27 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 16, 2010 2:14:24 PM PDT
This forum has languished for too long, given over to the pests and trolls who ridicule, deny, debunk and act like clubby fools. So I thought I'd try to introduce or expand on another related topic, and see if the intelligent and thoughtful posters might be willing to join this forum's discussions again.

Are there strange alien stuctures on the moon? Was the real purpose of the Apollo Missions to examine them up close? If not, why was their Manager of Data and Photo Control for the Apollo Missions, Ken Johnson, ordered to "airbrush out" certain photographed moon structures?

But let's start at the beginning. The below link is to an article discussing ancient Earth texts that speak of UFOs as mere aircraft "below the moon, and above the clouds". It even introduces a rather startling idea: Did long-ago Earthly mankind build or possibly live in these ancient structures on the moon?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6378238/Were-We-On-The-Moon-In-2309-BC-

Fast forward to the 20th Century. NASA commissioned a report from the Brookings Institute. One section has become controversial, "Implications of a discovery of extraterrestrial life". Their recommendation is hinted at - A Total Cover-Up, supposedly to protect our fragile minds from the truth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Report

Dr. Ken Johnson, NASA's Manager of Data and Photo Control Dept. at NASA's Lunar Receiving Laboratory during the Apollo Missions, revealed to the public that his department had been "ordered" to "smudge out" certain photos of structures (possibly long abandoned) on the moon. He complied - but secretly kept copies of the photos and data.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=109684
Johnson was fired by NASA, and went on to write a book with Richard Hoagland called "Dark Mission", or the unauthorized story of NASA and the real purpose behind the Apollo Missions to the moon.

So were the Apollo Lunar Missions less about generic scientific research, and more about studying these ancient (and/or current) structures on the moon?

http://aliensonthemoon.com/
This is a strange site, but the ten and a half minute video from enigmaTV.com is fascinating. This video is also on You Tube, titled "the REAL reason why they haven't been back to the Moon"

As always, evaluate the material and make up your own mind.

Posted on Oct 16, 2010 8:15:21 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
"It even introduces a rather startling idea: Did long-ago Earthly mankind build or possibly live in these ancient structures on the moon?"

Moronic. Where on Earth is the evidence of the technological civilization that could have built and supported such colonies? For someone styling themself as "thoughtful", you certainly don't seem to think things through very thoroughly.

"Their recommendation is hinted at - A Total Cover-Up, supposedly to protect our fragile minds from the truth."

That's not what the Wikipedia article says:

"While not specifically recommending a cover-up of evidence of extraterrestrial life, Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs does suggest that contact with intelligent extraterrestrial life (or strong evidence of its reality) could have a disruptive effect on human societies. Moreover, it does mention the possibility that leadership might wish to withhold evidence of extraterrestrial life from the public under some conditions.

Some ufologists and conspiracy theorists argue that this section of the report, by outlining plausible motives for government suppression of a discovery of extraterrestrial intelligence, furnishes evidence of an ongoing cover-up of intelligent extraterrestrial life already discovered. This interpretation of the report may have been influenced by contemporary mass media coverage. A 1960 New York Times story on the subject had a headline reading 'Mankind is Warned to Prepare For Discovery of Life in Space: Brookings Institution Report Says Earth's Civilization Might Topple if Faced by a Race of Superior Beings'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Report

In the other thread you stooped to a new low in name-calling and used the word "liars" (without, of course, specifying who or what statement(s) exactly you were referring to). How is your misrepresenting what is written on Wikipedia not lying?

Posted on Oct 18, 2010 12:09:57 PM PDT
Marilyn,

Do you really believe this nonsense? For example, from the link you provided:
"Two giant sets of letters under Mare Serenitalis, to the left of Mare Tranquilitatis, which read: "PYAX" and "JAW"-black letters, easily discernible"

Really? Then why aren't astronomers, especially all of the amateur astronomers with professional telescopes, quoting this? You can't ascribe that lack from a government conspiracy, so why isn't this all over the papers. (Plus, why would JAW be important? Are these aliens Spielberg fans?)

1) Here is a closeup of that crater. I don't see anything suspicious in it or near it:
http://www.footootjes.nl/Astrophotography_Lunar/20070523_Serenitatis_YF_400G50_f1Grad256Map7_40_wv2_HPF005_W20L20.jpg

2) Here is a very detailed explanation of why Apollo 17 landed near that crater (though that site you quoted doesn't even mention that):
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/missions/apollo/apollo_17/landing_site/

So if that site makes such a mash of a simple fact, why should you believe anything it says?
Plus, didn't ancient people make up things too, just like we do now? No one ever mentions that!

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 18, 2010 5:15:53 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 18, 2010 8:06:37 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
(Careful, Bob, you're wandering dangerously close to "pest and troll" territory, and I'd hate to see you damage the *amicable* relationship you have with Marilyn here.)

Posted on Oct 19, 2010 3:37:10 AM PDT
"Do you really believe this nonsense?"

Do I think there are artificial structures on the moon that NASA's own Photo Control Manager for the Apollo Missions (Ken Johnson) was ordered to "smudge out"? YES. Do I believe that everything in the articles I linked to is correct? NO.

So just one in-detail examination of one named crater, that turned up nothing unusual, doesn't invalidate the whole idea of possibly alien structures on the moon.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2010 5:54:00 AM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
As expected.

See, Bob, there's always a Way Out for the True Believer, always some rationalization which can be found to preserve the belief complex from collapse. And because this particular True Believer, Marilyn, is lazy and intellectually dishonest, she never bothers to go through the things she links to and point out what she believes and what she doesn't.

And it'll be a very cold day in Hell before she answers my questions above, about the lack of evidence for the civilization needed to support ancient human colonies on the moon (but is that why she emphasizes *alien* structures?), and especially about her misrepresentation of the Wikipedia page content.

"La la la, I've got you on ignore! La la la, I can't see your comments!" Ignorance is bliss.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2010 1:02:11 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"Do I think there are artificial structures on the moon that NASA's own Photo Control Manager for the Apollo Missions (Ken Johnson) was ordered to "smudge out"?"

The problem with this claim is that James Oberg has pointed out that 'Johnston was never in any responsible position or authority at NASA that would have enabled him to destroy unique Apollo imagery, as Dark_Mission claims. He was a lunar sample shipping clerk who sent out moon rocks and photographs of them to scientists. He was not "in charge" of any imagery data bases, he was an end-user of images provided to him (and many other end-users) by the real lunar imagery archives in a different organization in an entirely different building.'

In more detail he says 'Contemporaries of Johnston's at the LRL tell me that he, as a junior employee with no experience in astronomy, imagery, or other relevant skills, performed an important but low-level clerk task associated with distribution of lunar samples to scientists, samples that were accompanied by photographs of the samples taken in the LRL as well as any scenes showing the samples on the lunar surface. As far as I can tell, it was only such images - obtained by Johnston from the real imaging team elsewhere - that he worked with. It was important work and we are all grateful to him for doing it, but it was NOT the kind of responsibility -- and SPECIAL access to scenes unavailable to everybody else on the Apollo team - that has been widely misreported.'

Oberg points out other discrepancies between the claims in Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA, Enlarged and Revised Edition and the actual historical record: Johnson didn't serve a duty tour in F-4s, wasn't a 'Lunar Module Test Pilot', listed qualifications including a *purchased* PhD etc. He apparently wasn't even fired: simply had the right to use the NASA aegis in his talks and presentations rescinded.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread312623/pg48
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread312623/pg35#pid3742208

Unfortunately, when someone makes unsupported claims and is subsequently debunked, instead of killing the story, it simply feeds the conspiracy believers, who think this is really a smear of the 'truth'.

I'd be highly delighted if something like Clarke's TMA-1 was found on the Moon or elsewhere, but there's no sign of any genuine artifacts in the Solar System - except the ones we've launched into space in the last fifty years.

Posted on Oct 19, 2010 1:47:45 PM PDT
Marilyn,

You're certainly welcome to your beliefs; it just puzzles me that you could believe some of these things that seem made up by very unscientific characters. I certainly would love it if we discovered any alien artifacts, and I support the search for alien life. I just don't see how there could be anything sitting hidden up there on the Moon given the amount of photos we have taken yet NOT returned people to the Moon.

What I would much rather do is spend my $$ on supporting 'real' scientific endeavors. For example, I own a copy of Full Moon, in which a "San Francisco artist and photographer pulled together 129 stunning, black-and-white and color photographs from 32,000 previously unavailable pictures of the Apollo missions". They are in high resolution and come directly from the original NASA negatives. You should see if your local library has a copy. The photos are gorgeous. And, I don't think they are hiding the other 31,000+ from us because of any evidence. If so, wouldn't the government have gone through with Bush's return to the Moon initiative?

Posted on Oct 19, 2010 3:46:53 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 10, 2011 8:09:12 AM PDT
SPECULATION ALERT! Musings on some of the more odd artificial structures on the moon. Or, random thoughts to consider, however briefly.

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/460582
This is a model of a portion of the moon, based on NASA satellite photos. Notice the "raised pods", that appear to possibly indicate an abandoned base.

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-Models/moon-base-station-3d-3ds/457692
(CORRECTED URL)
This is a buildable model of a possible moon base. It consists of various circular "pods" and a tower. Contrast it to the moonscape-model above.

I have no conclusions. I just found these seemingly-random bits of information very interesting.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2010 4:08:29 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
"Rather curious to find an ocean animal so sensitive to light, to the point it can manipulate its own body's light output. Perhaps these strange attributes were developed on a world of harsh day and night. Like our moon?"

Insane. Or willfully ignorant. Period.

The moon never has and never will be massive enough to support an atmosphere or hydrosphere. It cannot, therefore, EVER have supported a biosphere in which life could have evolved. You ignore the MOST basic fundamentals of biology. Ridiculous.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2010 5:05:28 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 19, 2010 5:29:38 PM PDT
It seems it was Cotten Mathers who first watched a UFO cross the moon. That was in the 1600's.

I have read that the bottom of some of the craters have never been found. I have also read that the moon rings like a bell.

I remember reading about the group of obelisk on the moon seen in the photo. The glass like domes. The flying craft parked around the craters. The ideas, that the moon could be hollow, that the moon could be an artificial satalite put into position in earth orbit to allow life to evolve here. All interesting, though I find the satalite part a bit much and proably unprovable at this time. But being a base for the non-numan craft that fly through our sky is easily possible.

I was going to start a "What If" discussion last week. But after reading through some of the threads I saw that a thread without "the pests and trolls who ridicule, deny, debunk and act like clubby fools" is not going to happen around here.

Though it only takes 2 non-trolls to make a thread worthwhile.

I do not have time to look at your refs now, but I will check them out later and let you know what I think.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2010 12:54:24 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 20, 2010 1:01:03 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"One of the most fascinating artificial structures on the moon "smudged out" by Ken Johnson's team, looks like a squid."

Ken Johnson didn't have a team as NASA: he was a clerk...

"Rather curious to find an ocean animal so sensitive to light, to the point it can manipulate its own body's light output. Perhaps these strange attributes were developed on a world of harsh day and night. Like our moon?"

No, they evolved on Earth in areas where light is an important factor: to feed near the surface of the sea at night or in the ocean depths were it is dark. The Moon's atmosphere is so thin as to be a vacuum, and most atmosphere that it does have is Argon. Early on, the Moon might have had a thin atmosphere but it would have been very swiftly lost to space.

This lunar squid appears to be an intentional joke, probably intended to engage outraged responses. Instead, it's just silly.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2010 6:34:54 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 20, 2010 6:51:00 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"It seems it was Cotten Mathers who first watched a UFO cross the moon. That was in the 1600's."

In 1668 Cotton Mathers saw a star-like point of light *on* the Moon. 'In November [1668], appeared a Star between the horns of the Moon in the midst.'

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1949PA.....57..229O

The Moon isn't totally inert (for instance it suffers Earth-tides) and transient lunar phenomenon aren't very rare due to outgassing, impacts and the specular reflection of sunlight.

"I have read that the bottom of some of the craters have never been found."

Not many craters have been examined 'on the ground' and whilst there are some relatively deep vesicles, these probably were formed by gas bubbles escaping from the Moon as it cooled. There are no bottomless craters on record.

"I have also read that the moon rings like a bell."

Any object of sufficient density will "ring like a bell" (vibrate) as shock waves propagate through it. However, it does not mean that the Moon (or the Earth which also "rings like a bell") is hollow - quite the opposite. The transmission of such seismic waves is indicative of material for the wave to propagate through.

"I saw that a thread without "the pests and trolls who ridicule, deny, debunk and act like clubby fools" is not going to happen around here."

Undeniable troll-sign usually consists of calling other posters names such as pests or fools.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2010 6:58:53 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/460582
This is a model of a portion of the moon, based on NASA satellite photos. Notice the "raised pods", that appear to possibly indicate an abandoned base."

This *is* a model showing sixteen *fabricated* lunar surfaces using a 3D rendering modelling tool.

Posted on Oct 20, 2010 8:01:04 AM PDT
That's a poor moon-based squid.
Now THIS is a squid they should aspire to => http://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/item/145/298/597/oJ7ypJkBpvy7pPo.jpg

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2010 8:08:42 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Bob,

Here's the one they should be worrying about: old squid-face himself. Ia! Ia!

The Call of Cthulhu: The Celebrated Story by H.P. Lovecraft

Posted on Oct 20, 2010 8:40:03 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 21, 2010 3:20:24 AM PDT
Bob -

Ha! Actually, I like these 3d models better. (I just couldn't match them up to moon ground features.)

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/541402
SCIENCE FICTION PRISON ON A MOUNTAIN

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/scifi-hangar-3d-model/481508
SCIENCE FICTION HANGAR (3D)

So maybe you could answer a question for me: What exactly does one DO with a 3D computer "model"? Can more experienced gamers create their own video games with it?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2010 3:13:06 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 20, 2010 3:14:44 PM PDT
Ronald Craig says:
Research, various simulations, science education ... all would be important possible applications of such models.

But it's interesting that you first think only of games. :)

(And you still haven't answered the questions above. Like you yourself, they don't just go away if you ignore them.)

Posted on Oct 20, 2010 3:51:47 PM PDT
MH...never read "The Call of Cthulhu" - so many books, so little time!

Posted on Oct 20, 2010 3:55:26 PM PDT
Marilyn,

Some of the things you can do after you've designed a 3D model:
- Print out the parts list and costs,
- print out blueprints,
- simulate various incidents (ex. a blowout in a section of the habitat, stress from a moon quake, etc.)
- Directly from the computer have the manufacturing robots build pieces and parts

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2010 11:06:07 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 21, 2010 8:27:53 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Bob,

"never read "The Call of Cthulhu" - so many books, so little time!"

There are indications that convicted fraudster von Daniken lifted some of his ideas from Lovecraft's fiction, especially 'At the Mountains of Madness' and 'The Shadow Out of Time'...

The 'Call of Cthulhu' is a short story; and dealing with an alien priest of alien gods entombed in a sunken city in the Pacific for millions of years until 'The Stars are Right' ought to be of interest....

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2010 11:12:18 PM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
Bob,

Most 3D models that utlize the many pieces of imagery you can buy are used to create pictures or short animations. Apparently Poser Pro 2010 is used by the Porn industry, and more legitimately, it and other images are used by architects, movie set designers etc. There's a whole mass of hobbyists using these things to create pictures etc. And of course there are the people who use them to fabricate *fake* pictures...

Posted on Oct 21, 2010 3:26:41 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 21, 2010 3:26:57 AM PDT
Bob -

Thanks for the explanations, of what one can do with a 3d model. 3d is a rather useless adjective for actual plastic models (like the SCI FI PRISON) you can put together.

But I meant a computer 3d model of a specific location, like the SCIENCE FICTION HANGAR. It looks great - but empty. So, besides being an expensive Screen Saver, why would someone buy such a computer-model for their computer? Is adding elements or simulating crises events that difficult? Is this more of a highly personalized game framework?

Posted on Oct 21, 2010 6:20:24 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Sep 10, 2011 8:10:21 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 21, 2010 8:19:49 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"Despite Darwin's claim that soft-tissue can't fossilize, there are numerous squid fossils dated at 150 million years ago (Jurrasic Period)."

At the time of writing, Darwin had no access to the soft-tissue fossils that have been subsequently unearthed. He only had access to the knowledge of his time, and several details of some of his conjectures have subsequently been found to be in error.

"The word "ink" comes from mainly Greek variations on enkauston (purple ink)and enkaustos (burnt in). Medieval "ink" started out as "inke" or "enke"."

Enkaustos is derived from the stem enkaiein 'to burn in' from en- 'in' and kaiein 'to burn'.

"We've recently discovered that the moon contains vast amounts of water under the surface."

No, we've discovered that there are quantities of water mixed *in* with the lunar regolith (etymology 'blanket' + 'rock') of the lunar surface. Whilst there may be water ice at locations at the Moon's poles where it is in constant shadow, there is no evidence of any other free water on the Moon - liquid water would instantly become vapor and be lost to space.

"Is it possible the Sumerian god, ENKI - God of Water - was a hidden reference to "squid" thru the terms for INK/ENKE/ENKI?"

No:
* Enki translated probably means Lord Earth. The 'ki' may instead be derived from 'kig' - meaning unknown - or 'kur' meaning 'mound'. Whilst Enki, among his many other roles was associated with various forms of water, he wasn't associated with the Moon or squids; the Sumerian Moon god was Sin/Nanna.

* As can be seen from the origin of the English work 'ink' from Old French 'enque' from Roman 'encaustum' from Greek 'enkauston' from enkaiein 'to burn in' from en 'in' and kaiein 'to burn' there is no etymological relationship with the name of a Sumerian god.

[The Maasai god Enkai, En-kai, Engai, Eng-ai, Mweai, Mwiai is usually given the form 'Ngai'. It is unlikely there is any association with the Sumerian god Enki given the thousands of years of intervening time.]

"Squid are hunted by Mexican fisherman, for export to the Orient. This forum is discussing the best, usually nocturnal times for good "squidding". The original poster states that good "squidding" is affected more by the light from the moon, rather than any specific moon phase. Few details are offered, but there are other links provided. (If squid did indeed originate on the moon, "moon phases" as experienced from Earth would have little or no effect on them.)"

The Moon affects squid in two ways: tides and moonlight - which varies according to the phase of the Moon. Squid did not originate on the Moon and are related to other terrestrial cephalopods and molluscs.
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