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Amazon will start collecting taxes from Texas Residents


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Showing 1-25 of 124 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Oct 1, 2014 10:42:45 PM PDT
sure, I live in Oregon. :D

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2014 11:30:24 AM PDT
It's not apples and oranges.

You owe tax. You have to pay that tax. You don't get to say, "I pay too much, so I'm not paying it this time." You don't get a choice unless you want to break the law.

Your "'legal' write-off's" (sic) reduce the tax you owe, but you still owe it. Not paying what you owe is illegal even if you don't like it, and think you've already paid enough.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2014 10:45:37 AM PDT
Ballistica50 says:
Apples and Oranges try that method.....
We would all love to see your tax form and what "legal" write-off's you use.... Lol

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2014 10:34:36 AM PDT
Use that argument the next time you go to a store, and decide not to pay the sales tax you owe. See how the cashier, the store manager, and ultimately the police take to your argument.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2014 9:20:37 AM PDT
Ballistica50 says:
This is Humorous at it's best but here I go since Politics have been misplaced here: Tax Dodger's, TAX DODGER'S??? We are taxed to the gills and its probably going to double by the end of 2015 and Has doubled when you originally posted this. I can't believe that you even brought up Pretty Boy Perry and I say this as a life long TX Republican, Perry has blown more of Our Tax Dollars on his "Personal" gains than he has used them properly!!! I'm 62 and have worked Hard Labor all of my working life (54 yrs) and have paid every tax imposed on me Especially on my OT and I'm totally Sick and Exhausted of being Over Taxed and seeing very little gain from it for our state and COUNTRY. I'm one that will hunt for the best deals I possibly can and if it's not paying taxes for merchandise that's not being charged then By God that's what it's going to be! I feel No remorse Nor Guilt for getting the best bang for My Buck! Please refrain from using Rick Perry as any kind of do gooder as it looks very bad on TEXAS!!!!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2014 10:09:52 AM PDT
King Al says:
I'm not a lawyer, but sales taxes clearly are not restraint of trade.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2014 9:48:07 AM PDT
Gyro says:
You speak as if you're a lawyer. If you're not, please qualify your remarks. Thank you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2014 9:44:04 AM PDT
Gyro says:
There's a higher principle involved here. It goes "the power to tax is the power to destroy". Maybe we all ought to flood gov. Scott's office with our protests since it was his idea to induce Amazon to locate their distribution center in FL so he could crow that HE brought jobs to FL at election time. This stinks for people on fixed incomes, where the Fed and the banks are already killing us with inflation.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2014 9:30:57 AM PDT
King Al says:
Because it would be thrown out as a frivolous lawsuit.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2014 9:29:40 AM PDT
Gyro says:
How come no one has sued the states for "restraint of trade"? This is exactly what's happening every time the state dimwits come up with a new tax or a tax increase - people just spend less when they have to stretch dollars. Here's another good example: real estate taxes. Check yours. I bet it's at least doubled in the last 15 years. If you've gone onto Social Security in 2000, you'll know how much you've had to cut back other spending to make up for this tax increase alone.

Posted on Dec 25, 2013 8:31:17 PM PST
mario says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Apr 3, 2013 6:20:32 PM PDT
A good company protects its income not support 3rd party's with absolutely nothing in the making shipping delivery of the goods and services . And yes customer service after product or service delivered. You must be associated with 3party blood suckers that produce nothing in the transaction

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 2, 2013 6:04:11 PM PDT
>>>>
but now you play the game to go to checkout and wait to see which items have sales tax and delete and go back and forth
<<<<

If it's taxable from one seller, it's taxable from any seller.

The only difference is how the state collects it: Do they have the seller collect it for them, or do they expect you to (in Texas) file form 156, and pay it that way.

If you're complaining about how it's no longer easy to evade paying the taxes you owe, well, boo-hoo. Pay what you owe, and you won't have to find ways to evade.

>>>>
it's sad to see a good company lose sight of what made it a goodcompany
<<<<

A good company follows the law. A good customer follows the law, too.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 2, 2013 4:42:09 PM PDT
I'm with you it's sad to see a good company lose sight of what made it a goodcompany

Posted on Apr 2, 2013 4:04:40 PM PDT
M. kelley says:
I hate to say it, but I am cancelling my Prime as well. This is just wrong....Amazon use to be my 'go to' for everything...even when I traveled I could use the Amazon.uk and Amazon.de with confidence. Now it has gotten to the point with the US Amazon that you have to pick and choose your items to see if they 'even' qualify for Prime, but now you play the game to go to checkout and wait to see which items have sales tax and delete and go back and forth. None of it is worth my time any longer. I am not giving Amazon another $79 + sales tax. I work hard for my money.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2013 1:26:36 PM PDT
Thank you Warren, for taking the time to compose such an informative post. Let's hope that information does help to diffuse some of the "rage, denial, and defiance", and people will train themselves to make the necessary compensations.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 16, 2013 2:06:04 PM PDT
Use taxes go back to long before the Internet was even conceived. They're nothing new, nor do they apply specifically to the Internet.

They are based on legal concepts that date back to the Magna Carta, and 17th Century common law, as adopted into our Constitution, and our legal system. The issue comes down to *where* does a sale take place.

The sale takes place where the sale concludes. And that essentially is where the goods or services are delivered.

Amazon delivers goods to the address that they're shipped to. The sale concludes when the goods are delivered, and it concludes at the point of delivery. So even if Amazon doesn't have a nexus in a particular state, if the goods are delivered in that state, then that's where the sale takes place.

Whether or not Amazon has a nexus in the state in which the goods are delivered determines whether that state can compel Amazon to collect the tax in the form of a sales tax, or if the state can compel the buyer to pay them directly in the form of a use tax. Either way, the tax is on the buyer, regardless of the collection method.

Irrelevant factors include:
-Where seller's corporate headquarters is,
-Where the warehouse the goods are shipped from is, and
-How the order was placed.

Have you ever seen something for sale that says "FOB our dock", or "FOB some other location"? That means the sale takes place at that specified location, and the buyer, not the seller, is responsible for transportation away from that site. So if you buy, let's say, a sofa FOB at the factory's dock, either you have to go to the dock to pick it up, or you contract for a freight company to pick it up, and deliver it to you. In that case, the sale takes place at the dock. If that dock is in another state, you may have to pay sales tax to the state in which it was delivered in, and what happens when *you* import it to your state follows a whole different set of dynamics.

But if you buy that same sofa FOB your front porch, then the seller has to arrange for shipment into your state, and the sale takes place in your state, and the sale is subject to your state's taxation.

Another factor that can change things is whether you are buying something for resale. If you are buying something for resale, and those goods cross state lines, neither state has jurisdiction over the sale for sales tax purposes, regardless where the FOB, or point of sale took place. That's what interstate commerce is, and the Feds have jurisdiction over that. That's an entirely different situation than a consumer buying something from a seller who may or may not have a nexus in the buyer's state.

The Internet comes into play only as an ordering medium. You can place an order over the Internet, by phone, by fax, by mailed letter, by personally delivered message, or by talking over the counter in a store. The medium used to place the order is irrelevant to the issue of where the sale takes place.

(The Internet only becomes an issue when the goods are delivered via the Internet, for example a digital download. But generally, the rules going back the the Magna Carta apply here, too. Where is the person downloading is located is the key, although more difficult to determine.)

Essentially states shouldn't be surprised that so many people evade sales and use taxes when they're not collected by the seller. States have done little to nothing to educate people. This kind of thing isn't taught in school, and parents don't teach it to their kids because they don't know, either.

Before the Internet, the amount of tax revenue lost wasn't even worth the effort to do any education. You could have called this all some quirk in the law because the scale of the issue was practically nothing. The Internet, however, turned that insignificant amount of lost revenue into a huge amount of lost revenue. And attempts at education are likely to be met with anger, rage, denial, and defiance, as seen over and over again just in this thread.

So most states are just focusing on cracking-down on sellers who may be setting-up a new nexus in their state. Looking closer at what constitutes a nexus is involved, too. A nexus is more than just a retail store or warehouse. Employees, even if they aren't involved in sales, and company divisions separate from the selling unit can be a nexus, too. So when the state cracks down on the company, and they start collecting the sales taxes, it may *look* like a new tax to most people, but it really isn't because all that's changed is the way it can be collected (using the seller to collect it, rather than depending on the buyer to pay it to the state directly).

Now here's the new issue: Should states start to educate people so they can collect those taxes that are still missing? Or should they just lie back and wait for the big dogs, like Amazon, to establish a nexus so they can go after the sellers?

If we want government to act more like a business, then shouldn't we be upset if the government doesn't make an effort to collect debts owed to it? Would the stockholders of a company be okay with the company not attempting to collect outstanding accounts receivable? In most companies, if it was discovered that employees did nothing to collect unpaid receivables, they would be fired, and someone who will try to collect the receivables would be hired. Seems to me we should expect the same from our state governments -- even if we might be one of those uncollected receivables?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 16, 2013 9:55:14 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 16, 2013 9:57:11 AM PDT
Warren says
>>People voluntarily file their income taxes each year, and the overwhelming majority of them are honest in what they voluntarily report.
>>Implying that people who don't pay their state sales tax because it's okay to not voluntarily do so are somehow righteous shows a lack of character.

J.H.--Or it shows a character who recognizes that tariff wars have stifled free trade historically, because when a state invents a tax reaching to commerce beyond it's borders, the states whose commerce is negatively impacted by that tariff have a history of retaliating with their own interstate commerce tariff hikes. If your merchants in-state are responsible for collecting the regular sales tax then your "use" tax is an interstate tariff, and Amazon's decision to collect it becomes an arbitrary gesture to avoid being penalized by the states where they also do business, whose citizens and merchants would otherwise be negatively impacted by your state's escalating tariff.

So if Texas citizens buy from marketplace vendors on line, and don't submit a "use" tax report, I understand why you've labeled them evasive. I do not however believe in stone soup.

[Residing in a state where we're debating how long to leave the economy on life support before calling bankruptcy.]

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 16, 2013 9:24:57 AM PDT
LegoGirl says:
(HELP FORUM PRO)
>>Jonathan: I'm not sure in your post why you mention "my customers," since I'm not a seller here nor do I work for Amazon.

J.H.--My mistake, I perhaps could have phrased that better to read, "your fellow Texas customers."

L-Girl>>I find it bizarre that Texans are doing so much complaining about Amazon collecting our "use tax," since it only simplifies the process we were supposed to be doing anyway (manually reporting and paying). Our Governor pushed for this change precisely because so many people were not following Texas law on this.

>>Other states may be different, but we always clearly owed it in Texas. The link below shows the FAQ from the Comptroller's office, and it's spelled out in point #3 there.

>> http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/sales/faq_use.html

J.H.--Since you specify "manually reporting and paying", I'll take that to mean that your state tax forms include an itemized section for what sounds like a rather complicated and extra tax, above and beyond sales tax. You have my sympathies. Though that link you've provided sounds like it's a category that can be either in lieu of, or in addition to sales taxes collected by businesses. Having friends and cousins who live in your state I was curious.

L-Girl>>Nobody likes taxes, but we need to work on changing the taxation laws, not complaining about the method of collection.

J.H.--I've lived in a somewhat rural part of my state most of my life. And it seems to me that urban flight brings with it a disposition to re-institute all the higher taxes and big government infrastructure that people were fed up with before they abandoned the metropolitan areas. While I'm not an Amazon employee either, I suspect that shoppers won't easily forsake the largest selection of products available from Amazon and international affiliates just because of state taxation. We merely find ourselves budgeting our purchasing habits differently.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2013 4:01:16 PM PDT
>>>>
Regarding the allegations of tax dodging and tax evasion by customers -- virtually no one voluntarily pays state sales or use tax on internet purchases anywhere in the country unless it's collected by the online merchants. Get real, and stop bashing customers, impliedly and directly.
<<<<

People voluntarily file their income taxes each year, and the overwhelming majority of them are honest in what they voluntarily report.

Implying that people who don't pay their state sales tax because it's okay to not voluntarily do so are somehow righteous shows a lack of character. "It's only wrong if they're actively policing," or "it's only wrong if they get caught," just doesn't cut it. It's wrong even if they don't get caught, and it's wrong even if enforcement is lax.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2013 3:41:33 PM PDT
CF says:
I think it's ironic that Republican governors and Republican state legislatures are enforcing and even increasing state sales and use taxes. (Texas, Kansas and Arizona for example). But this is definitely not Amazon's fault. They wanted to keep their competitive advantage over local stores, and have spent millions in lawyers' fees fighting it.

Regarding the allegations of tax dodging and tax evasion by customers -- virtually no one voluntarily pays state sales or use tax on internet purchases anywhere in the country unless it's collected by the online merchants. Get real, and stop bashing customers, impliedly and directly.

One final remark-though my state isn't currently requiring Amazon to remit sales tax on purchases by state residents, I would rather that Amazon just start collecting it than waste more money on attorneys fees fighting it. In the long run the prices will be lower if they don't have to cover the cost of Amazon fighting these losing legal battles.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2013 8:18:53 AM PDT
LegoGirl says:
Jonathan: I'm not sure in your post why you mention "my customers," since I'm not a seller here nor do I work for Amazon.

I find it bizarre that Texans are doing so much complaining about Amazon collecting our "use tax," since it only simplifies the process we were supposed to be doing anyway (manually reporting and paying). Our Governor pushed for this change precisely because so many people were not following Texas law on this.

Other states may be different, but we always clearly owed it in Texas. The link below shows the FAQ from the Comptroller's office, and it's spelled out in point #3 there.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/sales/faq_use.html

Nobody likes taxes, but we need to work on changing the taxation laws, not complaining about the method of collection.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2013 7:43:26 AM PDT
Kristin Ames said:
>>I don't order many items through Amazon anymore due to the combination of the Texas taxes and this ridiculous Add-On Item program. I'm doing most of my ordering on ebay now, and any of my Amazon purchases are through 3rd party out of state sellers.

J.H.--Yeah, the enchantment of super saver shipping is wearing thin, thanks to the newly added state tax collection. It's just the sad fact that our dollar buys less at the online retailer now, like it did at the store on main street. I just can't buy as much as I'd like.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2013 7:39:22 AM PDT
LegoGirl said:
(HELP FORUM PRO)
>>You're a tax dodger if you haven't already been paying the "use tax" we always owed here in Texas prior to the change. Now you know why Rick Perry was so hell-bent on getting Amazon to collect it for him.

J.H.--Living in another state, where "sales" tax is just that, and only collected through and by businesses for remuneration to the state, I'm bemused that Texas has something called "use" tax. Over here business license holders don't even pay sales tax on business supplies, they're exempt from paying until they collect on actual sales.

Your "use" tax sounds like your government in Texas expects you to tally all your purchase receipts and make them out a direct cheque, like an income tax, or a value added tax (where each sales accrues additional tax upon value and taxes already paid.) If that were the case, I suspect Amazon wouldn't be playing the role of tax collector. Their payment to the state of Texas will only be a percentage figure of gross sales within that state.

Your customers aren't evading taxes. The business is only now being made accountable as an in-state business.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2013 7:23:55 AM PDT
We just got hosed over in California as well. The gov. Jerry Brown whined and whined that they couldn't quit handing out all those social services freebies, and coerced the state into accepting prolonged sales tax hikes (about 8%) indefinitely, by threatening to start firing teachers and fire fighters and closing after school activities programs.

Then the state's attorney announced they'd cut a deal with Amazon to begin collecting sales taxes on internet sales. It's the same thing the federal government has tried to sneak into for a couple decades, another excuse to tax the internet usage. So far I haven't seen marketplace orders with additional sales tax, apparently not part of the deal. Independent vendors can already include taxes in their listed price (pre-tallied), something that would make Amazon.com orders a bit more streamlined perhaps, if Amazon scripted an algorithm to adjust product page pricing according to the customer's on file billing address. This would of course require customer log-in to function. So you wouldn't be able to accurately browse pricing without signing in.

I noticed for awhile that Amazon attempted to display the seller price plus shipping as a single total for each vendor on the 'all' selling options page. Because some states do have interstate agreements about cross border tax collection on mail order sales, we're all likely to see more hidden charges popping up.
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