pronouncing the Gods names?

Thanks a lot for posting this!

Well, the most interesting mispronunciation I've ever heard was from a young woman who told me she was very interested in "cider". Further inquiry revealed that what she meant to say was "seiđr" (pronounced like "sayth", roughly). . .

I also talked with someone once who worshipped "Nidge-Order." (He meant Njörđr, which most Americans pronounce as Nyord or Nyorth, although that umlaut over the o means that the most correct pronunciation comes out a little like Nyerth.)

One reason for the confusion is that English writers often adapt Icelandic spelling to make it more pronounceable -- but they're not consistent. I've seen everything from Njörđr to Njördr to Njörd to Njord to Niord to Njorth to Njörth. . .

Fortunately, I think the Gods are pretty patient with us as far as pronunciation goes. Fortunately for us!

Here I have typed up a pronunciation guide on Old Norse. There is also Primitive Norse and Anglo-Saxon if anyone wants or needs it. This is pronunciation according to Kveldulf Gundarsson.

đ - soft th, as in the; also spelled dh
ţ - hard th, as in thorn
g - give as in give, except before e or i, where it becomes a y-sound: Geri= yey-ree
hr - aspirated, sounds almost like kr-
k - always hard, as in cat
kn - knífr = cuhneefr
j - as y: Jörmungandr = Yer-mun-gahndr
r - trilled r
final r - in modern Icelandic, spelled and pronounced 'ur'. In Old Norse, the vowel should ideally, but need not, be shortened to as near nonexistent as your mind and mouth can manage.
ll - this is really difficult. You touch the tip of your tongue to the root of your foremost two upper teeth, flatten the rest of the tongue about halfway up the mouth, and breathe out explosively, so that it sounds somewhere between 'hl' and a click. (A modern Icelandic language tape can help for this one.)
nn - kind of press extra hard and push off with the tip of your tongue as you say 'n'.

Vowels:
a - ah, as in art (Skađi = Skah-dhih, with a soft th)
á - ow (Ásatrú = Ow-suh-true)
ć - as in German ä; raised kind of halfway between an a and an e.
e - eh, as in then
é - ay, as in bay
i - ih, as in tin
í - eee, as in see
o - as in oh
ó - longer o. Óđinn = Ohh-thinn (with a soft the and that odd double n).
ö (or hooked o) - as in German ö, kind of like the e in er
ć - as u in burr
u - as in put
ú - oo, as in tool
y - as German ü in Hütte, ue
ý - as German ü in Tür, long ue
au - ow, as in bough
ei/ey - ay, as in day.

So, some of this makes pronouncing names kind of hard. (I don't think I'll be pronouncing Ullr correctly any time soon.) But some of it just takes practice. (I just got used to saying 'Skathee' when I learned it was 'Skathih'.)

I'm still interested in the many ways people pronounce the names however, regardless of historical accuracy.

Ben,

True that French is more consistent in its oddities than English. Even in dialects of French, the pronunciation differences are still consistent. Nasals vowels in French are a good example. In some Southern regions in France, the consonant following the nasal vowel is actually pronounced after the nasal sound. But that's another thread.

I know nothing about Welsh, but as always, I'm into learning about new languages. That's my forte. :0)

Well, neither is English -- look at sentences like "The tough coughs as he ploughs through the dough" and you'll see why English give foreigners conniptions. French is actually much more consistent in its rules -- it's not phonetically spelled, but the pronunciation is much more predictable from the spelling, if not always the other way around. Once you know the rules, you can read French aloud correctly virtually all the time. English. . . not so much.

English, French and Irish all have the problem that the language's spelling reflects the way words *were* pronounced centuries ago. "Knight" isn't spelled phonetically, but comes from the Old English "cniht", which was pronounced as spelled, more or less like "k-nikht". (In _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_, when the French knight taunts Arthur and his band with being a bunch of silly "k-niggits", he's just pronouncing "knights" the way the word was pronounced 1200 years ago.) Silent "E" used to be pronounced; so did the "gh" in "bright" and "light" and "night", and the "w" in "wrap" and "wring".

And by the way, that "W" in Welsh is easy; when it's used as a vowel, it's just a short "oo" sound. (If memory serves, it actually varies between "oo" as in "mood" and "oo" as in "book", depending on dialect and word position. . . but if you're not trying to learn the language, just pronounce a few words, just use a generic "oo" -- the name of the legendary figure Culhwch can be pronounced "Cool-hookh", for example.

Crom,

I guess the powers-that-be think it's funny to spell words differently than they are pronounced. Look at the French language! Not very phonetic at all. haha.

This might be a stupid question but when people are writing in English and in English "j" doesn't sound like "Y".. why don't they just put "Y" ? Wouldn't "Y" be the proper English spelling of the word? Whats wrong with making things a little more phonetic? I usually don't have trouble pronouncing the Germanic god names (I took German in high school and English and German are fairly close) but when it comes to some of the Celtic gods I find myself looking at the pronunciation guides over and over (and almost everyone is different! ). all those letters that are there that you don't really pronounce and such.. especially when it comes to Welsh.. whats up with all the "W" 's ?

Voodoo says: " Well, you never know....some people get their panties in a wad about the smallest details. hahah "

That's true. LOL!

Take Care. :)

Manisson says: LOL! I dont' think anyone would beat me down for pronouncing the gods names wrong. I just figured I should try and learn how to pronounce the names right.

Voodoo says: Well, you never know....some people get their panties in a wad about the smallest details. hahah

Thanks everyone for you help.

LOL! I dont' think anyone would beat me down for pronouncing the gods names wrong. I just figured I should try and learn how to pronounce the names right.

"Linguists think that in historical Old Norse, y was actually pronounced like German u-with-an-umlaut (ü) -- like trying to say "eee" but rounding your lips. This is hard to transcribe in English, but Tyr would have sounded something like "Tür" or "Tuer", and Freyr and Freyja would have been something like "Freuwr" and "Freuwya"."

I understand what your trying to describe with the ü. It's been awhile but I think it's pronounced the same way in Icelandic. Which I learned a very little bit of. LOL!

I'll listen to some Ravencasts and try Youtube like Admiralissimo Voodoo suggested.

Thanks again and Take Care. :)

Ben said "Linguists think that in historical Old Norse, y was actually pronounced like German u-with-an-umlaut (ü)."

I'd have to agree with the linguists. If you look at Swedish, you'll see that the "y" is pronounced like the German "ü". ü is pronounced by shaping your mouth as if you are about to "O", but saying "e" (as in free) instead. :) French has this same sound as well. When I'm not sure how to pronounce a word while reading something about Heathenry, I simply refer to my trusty Swedish grammar books. hehe. I know it may not be exact, but I think Scandinavian languages are probably the closest things we have to Old Norse.

Manisson, you may also find youtube useful in this case. There are some recordings of Icelandic Asatru gatherings on there where you can hear them pronounce some of the names of the gods.

OK. . . in the usual American English pronunciation of god names, Tyr sounds like "tier", and Frey and Freya sound like "fray" and "fray ya". This is what you'll hear at typical heathen gatherings just about anywhere you go. This is also the way it sounds in modern Icelandic.

"J" in Old Norse is always pronounced like English "y" -- as in "yes" and "you". It's never prounounced as in English "jar", "jam", etc. Sometimes it gets left out of Americanized names -- Freya is written in Old Norse as Freyja. But Freyja still sounds like "fray ya", never like "Fredgia" or anything like that.

Linguists think that in historical Old Norse, y was actually pronounced like German u-with-an-umlaut (ü) -- like trying to say "eee" but rounding your lips. This is hard to transcribe in English, but Tyr would have sounded something like "Tür" or "Tuer", and Freyr and Freyja would have been something like "Freuwr" and "Freuwya". But I don't actually know anyone today who tries to pronounce names that way. The Gods do respond to the Anglicized versions of their names; I've never known anyone who got beaten down by Tyr for saying "Tier" and not "Tüer".

Ravencast should give you a good idea of how we pronounce the names today. I'll be glad to take a crack at any other questions you might have.

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Ben

Thanks for the explination Ben.

I'd say I'm a medium level stickler for strict historical reconstruction on somethings. LOL! That did help some. I just have trouble reconising when to translate stuff differently. For instant the letter J in English it's just J pronounced like an English J but in German it's J but pronounced like an English Y. Like in the word "ja" it's actually pronounced with a y sound, right? Which I might be incorrectly assuming. That if the German J is a y sound. Then the German Y is a j sound? So when I see Frey and Freya I get confused about wiether the y is an English y or a German Y. I guess a better example that I could give is the god Týr. I've been pronouncing it as Tar. Which someone recently told me it's pronounced Tier. LOL!

Maybe I should listen to something like the Ravencasts? Listen to how they pronounce the names?

I don't mean to be long winded but sometimes I don't explain things well. LOL!

Thanks again and Take care. :)

I tried to write a response to this, and for some reason Amazon decided not to post it -- guess it thought it was offensive or something, who knows why. Let me see if I can sum up. . . Basically, the pronunciations and spellings that English speakers use aren't necessarily the same as the probable pronunciations in Old Norse. The goddess who tends the golden apples is usually called "ih-DOO-na" by English speakers, including most of the Heathens I've met -- but the Vikings probably said something like "EE-thoon". So the answer to your question depends on how much a stickler you are for strict historical reconstruction. . .

Now let's see if Amazon will let me post this. . .

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Ben

This is something that I haven't learned yet and something that I should know.

I was wondering if anyone knew were I could learn to pronounce the Gods names properly?

Any help would be appriciated.

Take Care. :)