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UV Digital Copy Hate


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Posted on Dec 31, 2011 7:42:56 PM PST
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Posted on Dec 31, 2011 7:49:28 PM PST
Jakeb says:
You can still watch your downloaded file after 1-3 years, but if you want to stream it or download it again you will have to pay for it again. Flixster has its problems now, and they have been discussed in great length elsewhere, but if they get their act together I could see it becoming a decent alternative.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2012 12:53:39 AM PST
Yes, it does matter that it doesn't work on I-Tunes. Packaging assures purchasers, that you can put a copy on your computer. It's an ambiguous promise. Yes, you can. But it only works through this crap of accessing some site they control.

And yes, they are trying to control the content from my perspective. In the first place, I haven't had a problem with any other company, and even Warner Brothers sent me an access code to make it accessible to me via I-Tunes. They promised to do the same with my last purchase, but it's been over seven days, and that is just another vacant dream of getting something they will not provide.

I, like many others who bought something through this studio, set up an account, and then we couldn't access it--either by logging in or resetting the password/user name. To make things more frustrating, getting help from the "tech center" is like the search for the Holy Grail.

I will not make another purchase with this studio. All future options will be through I-Tunes if I want a digital copy.

So I want to say this, if they can't make this a better multi-package product, they should only sell the Blu-Ray alone. I don't need the DVD, and the Blu-Ray is all I want.

As far as I'm concerned, that technology is about to become obsolete. Digital copies are the way of the future. You store it on your computer, and you run it through your TV.

The other issue I have with sites like the Ultraviolet digital format is the idea that some studio will think you are willing to place your entire film library on their site, and that they intern will be able to charge you for it. That was something I encountered with my last purchase of a MP3.

Posted on Jan 1, 2012 8:35:17 PM PST
B. Hamill says:
It just bothers me to no end. The process worked before... digital copies were available in either iTunes or Windows media. those two formats worked for everyone (cant speak of macs, but I think a format was made available to them). That didnt offer others enough control and enough ways to profit off of a purchase you already made! It's ridiculous. I dont know if digital is the way of the future or not. I hope not, because I like having a physical copy in my hands (tho, I got over that quickly with music). I also think that excludes many from buying movies that dont have the savvy/equipment to use digital as their primary form (not to mention people who like to collect). I'm sick of hearing about storage on the cloud, and how you can stream instantly. that doesnt help when you dont have wifi available. I just hate the idea of buying something and leaving control with someone else. It's like buying a car but having to leave it at the dealer.

Posted on Jan 2, 2012 10:53:54 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2012 12:11:07 AM PST
A M says:
@The Pedro Kid

Your post is filled with so many inaccuracies, I don't know where to begin:

"Warner, on the other hand, acquired a company a long time ago called Flixster that they have been unable to monetize so, in an effort to make it profitable"

Wrong. Warner Bros. only purchased Flixster about 7 months ago. That is not a long time. UltraViolet was in development longer than 7 months. It began beta testing back in 2010. They bought Flixster for the purpose of being able to get UV digital copies out there on all devices. Flixster already had iPhone, Android, and Google TV apps as well as a popular website for movie buffs. So it was an easy way to get UV available to an already large install base. Where is your proof that they could not monetize the flixster website? That is just conjecture on your part.

"You MUST give Flixster access to your entire computer. This is not a choice. The application gathers data on ALL of your media whether it is in Flixster or not (it's all right there in the terms of use folks). By installing Flixster you also give it the right to _remove YOUR media_ from your computer... Not only media you registered with Flixster but ANY media that is deemed to not have proper rights for use. Finally, it is not so much a 'choice' whether you give Flixster access to Netflix or Facebook but more of a 'when'. You see, you don't get a choice. If you have Flixster open on your computer when you open Netflix or Facebook you _automatically_ grant Flixster the right to access your accounts on those services (read the terms folks)."

I don't know if you read the same privacy terms I read - but your ideas are completely screwed up. You seem to think that when you accept their terms, that they're "access" to your computer allows them to remotely watch everything you are doing. That is akin to hacking. That would mean that if I have the flixster website open and on a separate tab log into my bank to pay a bill online - that they have access to that too. Or my email password. It doesn't work like that. That is illegal on so many levels. If they secretly did stuff like that, it wouldn't be long before the FTC and FCC and the ACLU would crack down on them. Movie studios are EXTREMELY risk averse when it comes to potential lawsuits.

In the terms I read it kept saying "if" you log into facebook or netflix. So I don't know what kind of conspiracy theories you have going on in your little brain of yours, but the wording did not seem to be one of them automatically taking control of all my information from those sites as you hypothesize. Privacy has become a huge concern in the wake of the rise of Facebook and Google. And most websites are getting savvy to the fact that they have to be careful about what information they gather and to only use it internally. I know that there was a problem with Flixster using aggressive spamming techniques to sign up new members. But that was when they were independent. And - even that - granting it access to your contacts was something you had the option of opting out of - but the way it was presented on the website did not make it clear to a moron who doesn't take a moment to look at all the options (like looking at the small links below) - and just presses the big "continue' button.

"YOU NEED YET ANOTHER APPLICATION IF YOU WANT TO VIEW YOUR CONTENT FROM SONY!!! Sony is REQUIRING an install of the Silverlight Client in order to use your digital copy!"

I got news for you. Silverlight is not an application. It is a system resource like Adobe Flash and it is made by Microsoft. And if you use Netflix streaming (like most of the civilized world) - it is ALREADY installed on your computer! You can complain about how you have to use a different app to watch your content - but you can also complain about how you have to watch different channels on your TV to get all of your shows! I already had silverilght on my computer and the flixster app. Because I used them for other things. So UV/WB piggybacking their product onto these already established services and sites is a smart idea.

Also, in terms of the "time" limit on digital copies - as I said in earlier posts, if you look at the iTunes digital copies with DVDs/Blu Rays - they have an expiration date on them as well. It says that if you don't download it be a certain date, it may no longer be available. Now, I know in my case, I had a hard drive crash and went to re-download a couple of movies after the expiration date and it worked. There were some hoops to jump through because the version of iTunes had been update in the interim (something UV haters never bring up about iTunes digital copies). Now I don't know if it allowed me to download them because I had already downloaded the file once prior to the expiration date. But I have a feeling (and this is just conjecture on my part) that the expiration dates on iTunes and UV copies are not being enforced. It is a way to hedge their bets in case the platform fails and they need to bail out of it.

You assume that after the time limit is up that your content will automatically expire and "poof" disappear from your hard drive or suddenly be locked and must be paid for again. The Ultra Violet slogan is "buy once, play anywhere." So somehow I doubt that will happen.

But the reality is that digital copies are not something everyone wants. Music is something we listen to over and over again. Most people watch a movie once and then not again. (Except kids and cinephiles). Digital copies to own are really a way of weening the public onto digital copies as a whole - so they will start to rent them that way. Stream or download rentals through iTunes or Xbox Live, Amazon On Demand. The profit margins are much higher for the studios on digital rentals over physical DVD rentals from a local video store.

If you don't want to use Flixster or stream content - fine. And Ultra violet is not perfect. Warner Bros. admitted to launching it before it was fully baked. But your post if filled with conjecture presented as fact.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 2, 2012 2:33:43 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 2, 2012 2:36:01 PM PST
Wayne Klein says:
J. Hamill,

WB wasn't beyond HD-DVD--they released titles on BOTH formats while Universal was the last studio to move to BD because they were owned by the same company.

As far as Ultraviolet WHY boycott buying it on Blu-ray? I buy the Blu-ray to watch the Blu-ray version. If I wanted to watch it as a download, I'd order it elsewhere. Granted, if they are going to offer the digital version they should give us the option of Ultraviolet or just a digital download.

If Ultraviolet is that much of an issue for you just download it from Apple.

I personally dislike Ultraviolet but I'm not going to stop buying a Blu-ray for that reason.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 11, 2012 3:55:22 PM PST
Outrun says:
You can re-download previous "purchases" (media that was bought or redeemed) in iTunes. However, if you did not redeem and download by the deadline, you won't be able to (depending on the studio). I lucked out on a bunch of DVDs that had digital downloads. At the time I didn't have my iPod Classic so I gave no thought to the digital download option. Some studios don't have deadlines, or may not enforce them as I was able to download some digital copies more than a year after I bought the DVD.

Posted on Jan 13, 2012 7:46:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 13, 2012 7:50:21 PM PST
Torey Deike says:
From reading all these posts it seems like People are mostly frustrated by having to contact the company to get the itunes code so they can watch it on their Iphones, Ipads, etc... So the simple fix to this would be just put a code for UV n a code for Itunes/windows in the packaging so people can use whichever program they use. (Which I dont see why thats so hard for the Movie Studios to do)

Where i have had a problem recently is where they are making me eat a DVD copy of a movie when i want the blu ray copy and Digital Copy for Itunes thats it no DVD no 3D copy n all that other BS that i have to pay extra for... Which recently if i want a Digital Copy i gotta buy the 3D version which i dont want.

Posted on Jan 13, 2012 9:30:48 PM PST
P. M. Taylor says:
I think the ultraviolet digital copy is a excellent idea but the only products that have the battery life to actually stream a movie are Apple products, so it kind of defeats the purpose. I have an ipod touch and an Evo. I can play music all day and then go to my second job and watch two movies without ever attaching the power cord or connecting to the wifi. The Evo does not have enough space to save music and movies or no where near the power to even run these items from the device. You add streaming to the Evo, you better have it connected to a power source or you won't be having a phone for the day. It is just not feasible at this time.

I do buy my movies for the itunes diigitial copy and it has affected my purchasing. I wonder how WB would feel if we just started buying the itunes hd download (which can be viewed on the tv and ipod) instead of the dvd or blue ray? WB has strong armed their customers into using ultraviolet. I say don't bite the hand that feeds you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2012 10:23:24 PM PST
A M says:
"The Evo does not have enough space to save music and movies or no where near the power to even run these items from the device."

That's the fault of your specific device. 4G eats up battery life like crazy on just about all cellphones. And when the EVO first came out all the reviews blasted it for it's horrible battery life. David Pogue in the New York Times said how it is basically impossible to make it a full day on a battery charge.

I have an android phone and tablet and I have been able to stream movies on each without completely draining the battery.

Posted on Jan 15, 2012 5:28:59 PM PST
A big issue is that iTunes was doing fine with the digital copy market. Now, the entertainment industry feels as though they need to take back what is theirs. So, now you have to worry about the new rules and regulations they imply on the copies. Also, it isn't finished tech. The tech is still changing and so are the rules whereas iTunes has been set into place for years. In fact, you could wake up tomorrow and new DRM may be put in place with the UV digital copies. They should have at least finished their rules and obligations first before trying to take digital copies into their own hands. Actually, better yet, they shouldn't have even gotten involved and just left it to iTunes.

Another thing that is bothersome is that you now have to have two different applications with two different lists of movies. Kind of annoying if you ask me. What if a third group decides they want their own format? Will we have to have yet ANOTHER application?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 16, 2012 7:54:46 AM PST
A M says:
@ G.W. Wampler

"Now, the entertainment industry feels as though they need to take back what is theirs."

This statement makes no sense. The studio still makes money off of iTunes digital copies. No one studio owns the Ultra Violet format. They do not stand to make more money off of them than they do off of iTunes.

"Actually, better yet, they shouldn't have even gotten involved and just left it to iTunes."

That's fine if you own an iPod. But iTunes digital copies do not work on Android phones and they are turning into a larger share of smart phones. New Android tablets come out every month and Windows is committed to making a big push in cellular phones. A Windows/Nokia phone just won the best smart phone award at CES.

That's the whole point of creating a new kind of digital copy. One that can work on more than just Apple devices. Or do you think that they should just leave the majority of people in the dust and unable to utilize their product (and therefore opt to not buy it) just so you can have the convenience of listing all your movies in one place?

Also, on an unrelated note:

"In fact, you could wake up tomorrow and new DRM may be put in place with the UV digital copies."

This has happened with iTunes several times over the last eight years. They had a deal with the recording studios that if their DRM was broken that they had a limited amount of time to fix it. And the iTunes DRM has been cracked several times and then changed with an iTunes update. Also, at first you could only authorize three computers, it was changed to five. So there have been several times where you have woken up and new DRM was put in place on your digital content from iTunes. But they were good at writing the code, so you did not notice it.

Posted on Jan 16, 2012 1:24:28 PM PST
B. Hamill says:
@ A M
"This statement makes no sense. The studio still makes money off of iTunes digital copies. No one studio owns the Ultra Violet format. They do not stand to make more money off of them than they do off of iTunes."

Seriously? iTunes keeps a cut. If they can "take back what is there's", then they don't have to pay iTunes.

"that's fine if you own an iPod". and "That's the whole point of creating a new kind of digital copy. One that can work on more than just Apple devices. Or do you think that they should just leave the majority of people in the dust and unable to utilize their product (and therefore opt to not buy it) just so you can have the convenience of listing all your movies in one place?"

Did you never redeem one of those "free digital downloads" before UV??? You ALWAYS got a choice of either iTunes or Windows format. How is that leaving the rest of the world in the dust? You did NOT need an iTunes account to enjoy digital copies before. Now, with UV/Flixter, you have to have their app. They've removed the choice they used to offer. They've REDUCED your options to only allow UV/Flixter.

The whole point of creating a new kind of digital copy is absolutely about bringing the digital market back into the studios control. That means they can keep more of the profit.

Frankly, I don't give a hoot who wants to profit off of the digital copy. If you promise me a digital copy, then provide me with one without having to install some new app. Give me the choice of downloading either a windows version or an iTunes version, and I'll be happy.

I have no interest in "the cloud" or streaming. Streaming only helps when I'm sitting in my home or I'm connecting to wifi. That limits my movie watching opportunities. I want my copy actually on my device (or on my computer, so I can add it to my device when I want it there).

Posted on Jan 16, 2012 7:51:58 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Jan 16, 2012 7:59:31 PM PST]

Posted on Jan 16, 2012 8:02:07 PM PST
A M says:
@ B. Hamill

"Seriously? iTunes keeps a cut. If they can "take back what is there's", then they don't have to pay iTunes."

Here is something most people don't seem to understand. Apple doesn't make a profit off of iTunes or the store. It is a loss leader. The cut they take on music and movies is so small that it is almost infintesimal to the studios and to Apple. They make their money off of selling the hardware. Computers, iPhones, iPods, iPads, etc.

"You ALWAYS got a choice of either iTunes or Windows format. How is that leaving the rest of the world in the dust? You did NOT need an iTunes account to enjoy digital copies before."

It left me in the dust. I own an apple laptop and an android phone and tablet and a Sony Blu Ray/media player. I could redeem the iTunes digital copy, but it only worked on my computer. Nothing else. The Windows WMV copy could only be accessed on a Windows computer and worked on certain microsoft "plays for sure" devices like a Zune. (Have you ever met anyone who owned a Zune? I never have). So you are right, they took away the choice. But it was not about making more profit. The difference in profit on any of the digital copies is negligible. Pocket Blu tried to create a universal system that works on apple and android, but their digital copies do not work at all on any device. Getting digital copies into the hands of android users (the majority of smart phones are android) is a need that must be filled and so far - even though they released it early before it was fully baked, it has so far worked for me. But I will agree that part of the reason they are no longer offering iTunes copies as an additional option is threefold - 1. It means producing an extra disc which is extra manufacturing costs. 2. They don't see it as necessary since apple users can still use the UV digital copy. 3. It limits Apples power and monopoly of the market.

But you are also wrong. You do need an iTunes account to redeem a digital copy. Because it encodes the DRM to your account as it extracts if off the disc. Try logging out of iTunes next time you redeem an iTunes digital copy. It will ask you to log in before it completes.

"I have no interest in "the cloud" or streaming. Streaming only helps when I'm sitting in my home or I'm connecting to wifi. That limits my movie watching opportunities. I want my copy actually on my device (or on my computer, so I can add it to my device when I want it there)."

The UV copies can be downloaded to your device. I met with someone who works for the UV department of Sony. I complained about this. But then I tried to show her how it wouldn't work even though the device was downloaded to my phone. I put my phone into airplane mode and it played. No internet connection at all.

"If you promise me a digital copy, then provide me with one without having to install some new app."

That is like complaining that you have to use different channels to watch everything you want on TV. Or that you have to go to different movie theaters at their specific times to be able to watch any movie that is playing in the theater.

In my case it is no skin off my back. I already had the flixster app on my phone and tablet. I use it to check showtimes for seeing movies in a theater (they way they were meant to be seen in the first place).

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 17, 2012 10:54:28 AM PST
J. Epstein says:
For someone with no experience regarding the format, all you do is take the original post, agree to it and insult people. Is this what you do in your free time. Most people, myself included would just like a copy of the movie to watch via itunes or WMP, and dont need additional apps and logins to worry about.

Josh

Posted on Jan 17, 2012 11:09:13 AM PST
KalElin2013 says:
@ A M

I don't think you understand the expiration date on previous digital copies; the expiration date is to REDEEM the copy. When you re-downloaded a copy after the expiration date, that was simply because it was recognized that you already downloaded the copy by the expiration date, so you were allowed to download it again.

With UV, if you read in the fine print, the copy you have to either stream or download on your computer will EXPIRE after 3 years regardless if you downloaded it or not. You will have to pay to access the copy again after the 3 year window.

To assume because you were able to RE-download a movie that this will not hold true is a little brash. UV has it spelled out pretty clearly that you only are able to access this movie for 3 years.

Like an earlier poster said, Universal has hit the nail on the head when it comes to UV. They give you an option to download on iTunes, Windows Media, Amazon or whatever format you'd like. THAT is how you make UV successful, NOT how WB is doing it with Flixster.

Posted on Jan 21, 2012 4:28:59 PM PST
"Like an earlier poster said, Universal has hit the nail on the head when it comes to UV. They give you an option to download on iTunes, Windows Media, Amazon or whatever format you'd like. THAT is how you make UV successful, NOT how WB is doing it with Flixster. "

This right here. THIS is the most important point myself and others have been trying to get across.

UV is simply too complex and ridiculous in Warner and Sony applications of the tech. I do not see UV as the problem, but rather Flixster and Warner/Sony application of it all. It is clear that the consumer was not a part of the discussion when they made their plans. At Universal, the consumer WAS. That is the key difference. Cowboys and Aliens was EXACTLY how UV should be implemented. You get all the benefits of UV and you can download the film in your format of choice... No app restrictions and multi-login management.

On a final note, @ A M, you DO NOT need a disc for iTunes digital copy. All you need is a code. The disc is simply a convenience to speed up the process of downloading; however, many people do not realize you can actually stream your movie while it downloads if you want to begin watching immediately. You don't need a disc in iTunes. You never have. In fact, I prefer not having one myself.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2012 8:55:39 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 27, 2012 10:45:11 AM PST
A M says:
@ KalElin2013

Well, as I said earlier... UV's motto is "Buy once. Play anywhere." So if your rights expire after three years, they are breaking their very motto. I don't recall exactly what I read when I downloaded Harry Potter (and must admit I didn't really care since I got the DVD for free and haven't seen all the previous films). But I disagree with your interpretation of what you read.

A quick look at the Ultraviolet FAQ says that rights never expire:

http://www.uvvu.com/faqs.php#question-22

I also found this other UV FAQ saying that goes into further details of Warner's policy. Basically, you MAY have to pay after three years to continue to stream the movie. But if you downloaded it before the three years - it is yours forever and can be copied and transferred and played again and again. I downloaded Austin Powers on my tablet and manually moved the file to my phone - and it worked. (However, the copy I downloaded on my computer did not work when manually transferred).

http://uvdemystified.com/uvfaq.html#1.6.1

@ Pedro The Kid

Your earlier post did not say that you did not need a DISC to redeem an iTunes Digital Copy. It said you do not need an iTunes account. That is what I refuted.

But you also do need the disc. I clicked redeem at the bottom of the Star Trek page and entered the code for Star Trek and it told me I must insert the disc to get the digital copy.

----------

But I do agree with all of you that giving the consumer the choice of using UV, iTunes, WMV, or PocketBlu is the best way to go. But I also wish that Dunkin' Donuts was available in California. I wish that Circuit City hadn't gone out of business. I wish that Gore had become president in 2001.

So long as it works, I am happy. If this thread were about PocketBlu I would be complaining. But so far UV has worked for me with only minimal hiccups. And having to use a different app to watch movies is not an inconvenience. It's just like my computer. I watch some things in Quicktime player, some things in iTunes, some things on You Tube in my web browser. Other things off a disc in DVD Player. And now some things in the Flixster Collections app. Big deal!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2012 6:27:52 PM PST
Ryan Fettig says:
How did you download it your iPad which I've tried and was unsuccessful but maybe I'm just an idiot and couldn't figure it out..

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2012 11:37:34 PM PST
A M says:
@ Ryan

You redeem the code on your computer on the flixster website (it should have the URL on the insert with the code). Then you go to the flixster app on your iPad and log in to your account. The movie will be in the "My Collections" section. There will be buttons to stream or download it.

Posted on Jan 26, 2012 9:05:12 AM PST
W. Ormond says:
The biggest issue I have with UV is that they are WAY too late to the party. I detest iTunes but since that was how the studios decided 3+ years ago to start distributing their DCs this way I made the concession and started utilizing it. I then purchased devices that would allow me to stream said iTunes digital copies throughout my house (read AppleTV units). Now they want to switch up and give me yet another format to deal with that doesn't work with the devices that I purchased due to THEIR decision to utilize the iTunes model. AFAIK there are currently ZERO devices that will allow me to stream downloaded copies of UV DCs across my network (not from Flixster or whatever) to multiple points in my home. I own ~3500 movies and ALL of them have been converted to digital for streaming throughout my house to any TV in my house. I can still do it with any new disc purchased the iTunes DCs just made it MUCH simpler than doing it manually. For those of us with large media collections and/or small children DCs are a huge timesaver.

BTW the disc is NOT a requirement for iTunes DCs, I would suspect that they are a cost savings to the studios not having to pay Apple for the bandwidth used in downloading them via "code only" transactions. 99% of the new Universal DCs are discless (and can be used on iTunes/WMV/Amazon/UV) thus giving the end user TRUE "choice". You can only use the code once so whatever you choose (or have the device to playback with) becomes the only option for that specific DC code. As I see it UV just came to the party too late. What they are trying to do now is change format "midstream" and for those of us that actually utilize the DCs to a large degree this has become a hassle that we just don't want. I give HUGE kudos to Universal for realizing this and staying "status quo" with what is currently being offered.
And while it is true that Warner will "maybe" give you a iTunes compatible DC (I have had luck with 5 so far) Sony will just tell you "Sorry that is what we are using and we are Sony kings of the format switch that we will abandon" so get with what we offer or just don't use it. I have choosen to just not use it. Sony and Warner both with this have drastically reduced my purcasing their product simply because of this so I for one am voting with my Wallet. Redbox will let me rent their movie just fine or Netflix will let me stream it later on. Either way the studio loses out on a purchase that I would have gladly made if they still provided a product that worked for MY needs. As they chose not to do so it is their loss not mine. I have plenty to watch from other sources without having to give them money.

Posted on Jan 26, 2012 11:50:17 AM PST
John Lemon says:
Why do people like to lie and make things up. Right from the UV site I put below what it says. If you aren't to stupid to read you are flat out lying, because you are an annoying apple cult member.

Will my UltraViolet Rights expire?
Your rights to the movie or TV show you purchase do not expire. For a more detailed description of the UltraViolet Rights, click here.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 26, 2012 11:55:37 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 26, 2012 1:31:33 PM PST
John Lemon says:
J. Epstein, I'm curious how you do this with iTunes without downloading iTunes. Also how do you use iTunes without creating an iTunes account. So you don't want to have to download extra software then don't use iTunes.

Now you are going to say but I already have iTunes. Well then you know that iTunes requires you to download it again like every 2 weeks.

You are just an apple cult member and all they do is whine and cry.

Posted on Jan 26, 2012 1:56:18 PM PST
Zero of One says:
I have a question. Does anyone know if Flixster has any additional functionality that iTunes doesn't? i.e. slow motion, frame by frame, time stamps, adjustable zoom, etc.
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