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Leave No Trace: the argument AGAINST it


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Showing 276-300 of 317 posts in this discussion
Posted on May 28, 2012 12:42:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 28, 2012 7:18:04 PM PDT
Well, having lived in parts of Saharan and sub-Saharan Africa, and observed the very large fields which serve as human open air squatting sites, the idea of just leaving your excrement unburied for nature to deal with is not acceptable. During the dust storm seasons, powdered human excrement is an identifiable component of the wind blown dust, and a major vector for illness. Dig a hole, do your business, cover the stuff, and pack out the used TP. Biodegradable TP requires moisture to decompose. In the West and Southwest US where I travel, that moisture is generally not present. The TP is there well after the poop has gone. Bury your personal DNA pile and pack out your used TP. Don't pee in the river or lake; pee well uphill away from the water and let nature filter it on its way back downhill to the water body. Happy camping!!

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 4:25:43 PM PDT
emiluree says:
I agree. I have stepped in those "apples" on the beach and trails near the beach, barefoot. It really is unfare that I am unable to bring my dog even if I pick up after her, but you can ride your horse and not pick it up!

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 5:35:03 PM PDT
Hint: all the animals in the neighborhood aren't coming to just your yard to use the bathroom. Hope this helps!

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 7:14:08 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on May 28, 2012 7:31:16 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 7:34:25 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 4, 2012 3:09:01 PM PDT
Dorkus wrote in part: "Show me an animal other than a fish that purposely urinates in the water, and then I will say it is acceptable."

Uhh - spent much time observing cattle, moose, elk? They will stand in the water and drink at the front end while emptying out at the back end. Ducks, geese, - all waterfowl foul the water. Otters, beaver - do I need to go on?

Posted on May 28, 2012 7:50:09 PM PDT
G. D. Perdue says:
Yes, and we call them "animals"...

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2012 11:40:05 AM PDT
spookiewon says:
How is your poop any different than all the other poop? Everything poops.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2012 11:49:35 AM PDT
spookiewon says:
Urine is sterile. It shouldn't matter where you do it. In or out of the river--same difference.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2012 11:54:05 AM PDT
spookiewon says:
What a marvelously convoluted way to justify being a pig! I'm not too lazy to pack out my trash, I'm potentially saving someone's life!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2012 11:58:47 AM PDT
spookiewon says:
I'm confused as to why people find this adds to the discussion. Eating cheese won't make you not have to poop. It may make pooping difficult or even painful, but waste gotta come out eventually. It's a stupid comment.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2012 12:00:15 PM PDT
spookiewon says:
WTF do you have against Birkenstocks?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2012 12:08:00 PM PDT
spookiewon says:
Omnivores. People and bears are omnivores, not carnivores. Carnivores eat ONLY meat, like herbivores eat only plant material. We, and the bears, are omnivores. We eat pretty much everything not poisonous to us.

Posted on Jun 2, 2012 7:14:03 PM PDT
DisplacedMic says:
this is an extremely interesting thread - thanks for everyone who has contributed.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 4, 2012 7:40:17 AM PDT
I agree with Incredibly Frustrated on the 8th of May. Common sense and common decency. An elk may pee in the water as it poops in the water but I'd really appreciate it if you campers didn't, and I promise you, I won't. So feel safe being downstream of my camp.

Posted on Jun 5, 2012 4:49:35 AM PDT
I usually don't poop when I am hiking. For some reason my body goes into double beast mode and my colon quadruples in size. Nothing like an 8 miles hike with a serious kielbasa in the belly.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 7:23:23 AM PDT
Bill King says:
I think this is because the diet is different.

The best pack food is what you normally eat, as much as possible. Things like dry sphagetti, dry tomato sauce, some spices, and dried meat makes a normal pasta meal for me. On the other hand GORP is strange to the digestive system because I don't eat it at home. Also M&M's and peanuts, which I don't eat except on the trail.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 10:10:56 AM PDT
Roxann Souci says:
Biodegradable TP can take a very long time to break down. I recommend single-ply RV toilet paper. That being said, in certain climates, and depending on the number of people involved, leaving NO trace may be the best practice in order to keep from negativity impacting the environment. At Burning Man, a large annual arts event, we have 54,000 people in a 1 week long temporary "city" in BLM in the desert. Each camp group is graded on our Leave No Trace actions, right down to the point of no lint on the ground. If you don't pass, you can't return. All grey water is evaporated. Leaving No Trace just takes some forethought and a modest effort. It's not that big a deal.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 18, 2012 10:04:12 AM PDT
Grand Poobah says:
I just came upon this thread, and thought to make a few comments.

First off, having traveled extensively in the far east, deep into the jungles and lived amongst the peoples there, I noticed a number of issues of relevance. Now granted, this was 40 years ago, but sanitation there was primitive or absent. People who lived in villages, some in longhouses like the Montangnard, simply crapped through the slats of their huts, and let the pigs and chickenes feast upon the waste. The natives went into the jungle when on patrol, and squatted and left it. The monsoons were frequent, and left little remains, and this was all natural, I suspect for thousands of years of Asian culture. It is primitive, it is natural and they didn't compost nor carry it out. Big woof. We are so sanitized in our "society" that we forget what was most typical. The Indians (or Natives) if you wish, had much the same lifestyle, and used leaves or grasses to wipe themselves, and rivers and lakes for the "occasional" or rare body wash. So let's dispense with some obscure ideas of what was most natural.

The problem in our society, is that we inundate the woods, the treelines and the parks with people. The density of those in the jungle wasn't overburdening on the environment. That's not true in our state and federal lands, and most people hang around the roadways, the campsites and the trails, and for fear of getting lost or encountering wild animals, they don't venture far off the beaten paths. Thus, they crap up the environment. To deal with that, one should carry the special toilet papers that rapidly degrade, use a small military-style entrenching tool, and dig a slit trench and depost your waste there. But try to get deeper into the woods to relieve yourself, and bury it at least 6 inches beneath soil. That way the odor would be eliminated, and someone would not likely kick off the overburden of soil. Use your head. All plastics, cans and non-compostables should be taken back, or don't use them at all. Pack in reuseables containers, and take the latter with you back to your 4 bedroom, 3 bath home.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 18, 2012 10:14:28 AM PDT
Grand Poobah says:
In most areas of the underdeveloped world, the indigenous populations carry numerous parasites, are often sick with intestinal flora from absent sanitation, and have a much hardier immune system than we 'westernized' folks. However, giardia and other parasites are typical, as is polio and the mosquito and fly-borne diseases. Malaria kills millions around the globe, and between amoebic dynsentery and other forms of dysentery (which kills 12 million around the world), there is much to be said for sanitation. In our society, we should bury our waste, which is mostly water anyway, and it decomposes fairly rapidly through normal dessication and then insect and bacterial actions. I sawy launch and leave it; but bury it when you can, and stay off the trail and go 100 yard minimum into the woodline. And wash your hands, ya' creepy bastard.

Posted on Jun 19, 2012 1:05:04 AM PDT
The fact that there are so many comments proves that there are a lot of people with serious mental deficiencies. Seriously. Especially since ALL of you are saying EXACTLY the same thing with one exception, and then on that one item you ALL fall into one of two camps: poop in a hole or poop in a bag.

until only a few hundred years ago most humans were still pooping in the wild, or throwing it out the window, If some retard thinks that suddenly human feces is excessively toxic and will destroy the planet, then he may haul his poop anywhere he wants, as a matter of fact he can haul mine too. He can find it buried eight to twelve inches down with a rock placed over that spot and always at least twenty meters off of any animal trails, fifty meters off any human trails and a hundred meters from any known water source. Happy hunting to you, pal.

That was five minutes I'll never get back and about thirty seconds you'll never get back. Is this discussion worth it? I think not.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 1:54:29 AM PDT
Bill King says:
Sorry to see you go, bye!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 19, 2012 6:18:06 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 19, 2012 6:18:42 AM PDT
N. A. Noll says:
The ideal is an aesthetic of common decency; leave the place so that the next guy that shows up there has no idea someone else was there first. That runs from the should-be obvious, say don't carve your name into the side of a tree; to the nuanced, say considering wildlife and climate in the treatment of food scraps in a place frequented by humans versus a remote off-trail location...

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 21, 2012 1:57:30 PM PDT
DisplacedMic says:
I for one have enjoyed reading this thread...

Posted on Jun 24, 2012 10:19:52 AM PDT
S. Jones says:
Posted on Jun 5, 2012 4:49:35 AM PDT
mark says:
"I usually don't poop when I am hiking. For some reason my body goes into double beast mode and my colon quadruples in size. Nothing like an 8 miles hike with a serious kielbasa in the belly."

ahahaha! had me lmao, but i know that feeling as well. i think Bill is right, it must be the different diet...

Posted on Jun 25, 2012 12:07:03 PM PDT
Ms. Picky says:
Natural foods lead to natural waste. Deer who consume contaminated food sources produce contaminated (and thus unnatural) waste. Humans who consume processed or otherwise toxic foods, antibiotics, hormone-affecting medicines, etc., produce contaminated waste. I think this is where the so-called stink is (or should be) all about : )
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Initial post:  Jul 7, 2010
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