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Customer Discussions > Christianity forum

Sola Scriptura, Anyone?


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Showing 1-25 of 56 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Feb 24, 2012 1:22:42 PM PST
ABOTA says:
A quote from 2 Tim 3:14 - 17 (www.catholic.org):

14 You must keep to what you have been taught and know to be true; remember who your teachers were,

15 and how, ever since you were a child, you have known the holy scriptures -from these you can learn the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is inspired by God and useful for refuting error, for guiding people's lives and teaching them to be upright.

17 This is how someone who is dedicated to God becomes fully equipped and ready for any good work.

====

Now isn't it curious that the "holy scriptures" (can't refer to the New Testament, as it hadn't been written when Timothy was a child) is a source of "wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

Furthermore, by these "holy scriptures" Timothy "becomes fully equipped and ready for any good work."

That's "fully equipped" and "ready." Good things to be.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 24, 2012 2:30:46 PM PST
emac says:
This passage only makes sense if you understand it was not written by Paul, but by someone in the first 1/2 of second century, probably by a nascent Catholic.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 24, 2012 3:04:45 PM PST
ABOTA says:
Even if you read the passage as pseudo-Pauline, what is the writer asserting?

Posted on Feb 25, 2012 10:11:30 AM PST
im looking for the verse in scripture where the words "Rock of Ages" is used, does anyone know where it is?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 10:16:36 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 25, 2012 10:29:03 AM PST
M. Simonson says:
You may consider that Google and other search engines are more powerful than you may have thought. A Google search "Rock of Ages Passage" reveals ...

http://thedailybibleverse.blogspot.com/2008/08/isaiah-263-4-rock-of-ages.html

A Hebrew interlinear seems to confirm this ...

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa26.pdf

Isiah 26 vs 4 "Rock-of (the) eons"

(edit) Also from Young's Literal ...

4 - Trust ye in Jehovah for ever, For in Jah Jehovah [is] a rock of ages

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 10:20:42 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 25, 2012 10:42:24 AM PST
Kevin Bold says:
But where's the part about "ONLY Scripture"?

The man who wrote 2 Tim 3:15 also endorsed Sacred Tradition (1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Thess. 2:15 & 3:6) and called the Church, rather than Scripture, the "pillar and bulwark of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 11:26:20 AM PST
Tammy says:
:-) I can't stop smiling!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 12:03:59 PM PST
ABOTA says:
Well said. I've heard it argued that Jesus was a Karaite, but I believe he was only down on tradition when it nullified the Word of God.

The sufficiency of the Hebrew Scriptures to render us "fully equipped" does not invalidate the use of tradition. It just that Jesus judged the latter in light of the former.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 12:59:07 PM PST
thats what i did first, i went to isaiah 26...but it didnt literally say rock of ages, and i remember reading somewhere else in the bible where it said it, i just forgot where it was at

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 12:59:45 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 25, 2012 1:00:34 PM PST
Ambulocetus says:
ABOTA

How handy that your belief in the Sola Scriptura doctrine is found--in Scripture!

I have a few questions:
1) is there anything OTHER than the Bible which provides evidence for the Sola Scriptura view, or is this view just something which you have dogmatically assumed from the get-go?

2) Given the verses cited by later posters which suggest a role for extra-scriptural ways of finding God's will, doesn't even the Bible ITSELF contradict the Sola Scriptura view?

3) Given that most people lack even the most rudimentary knowledge needed to make sense of difficult Bible passages, isn't it necessary for such people to have texts and experts more knowledgeable than themselves to help them make sense of the Bible? And don't such people need all the more help to the extent that their lack of wisdom leads them into error? (Hebrews 5:11-14).

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 1:35:16 PM PST
ABOTA says:
@ Daniel

From whence do you derive your opinion of my "belief in the Sola Scriptura" doctrine? Certainly not from my posts.

Go back and read them, please. Quote a dogmatic assumption (your words, not mine) and refute it.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 1:41:36 PM PST
M. Simonson says:
"went to isaiah 26...but it didnt literally say rock of ages,"

The song is very old, perhaps written a bit before Young's Literal was penned. Many of the older English Bibles, no longer in print or available tend to read more like Young's Literal.
Translators thought that phrases like "Everlasting Strength" would be better to tell the reader what was in scripture. But words like "rock" are used with idiomatic consistency in the Bible (as long as one is careful).

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 1:59:52 PM PST
M. Simonson says:
As to the OP. When the NT was being written was a very interesting time. The NT is being written as Christianity it's self is developing. In Jewish circles of course they would have had the Torah in the old language.
But also the Septuagint was widely available. In the old world Greek back then had been the command language of the old Greek empires that spun off from Alexander. Anybody educated, and anyone involved in commerce or government would have known the Greek.

At first the Churches would have had oral teachings along with a few letters and the Septuagint(or Torah). Then more and more letters from Paul, James etc became available. In some of his letters Paul tells the churches addressed to pass a copy on the other churches.

Also don't be so certain that they didn't have copies of the Gospel earlier than previously thought. The historians and academics are correct when they say they don't see one of the Gospels earlier than 95 AD or whatever. They are doing their job, these things can only be traced back so far. But some ancient scraps of paper that can only be from Gospels like Mark and Luke have been dated back as early as 55AD. Chuck Missler talks about this in some of his lectures. But it can't be too early or everywhere because then we would expect Paul to mention them in his letters.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 2:02:31 PM PST
ABOTA says:
My understanding is that the Gospels would have started as oral histories, so, in fact, Q (if it exists) may not even be a document per se.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 2:22:05 PM PST
Kevin Bold says:
Jesus was no Karaite.

He cited Tradition when he referred to the Pharisees sitting on the Seat of Moses, which he did just a few verses after admonishing the Pharisees for using a *man-made* tradition, as opposed to a Sacred Tradition, to get around the commandment to honor one's parents.

Likewise, Paul cited Sacred Tradition when he spoke of Jesus being the rock that followed the Israelites through the desert (the OT doesn't tell us that part about the rock).

Jude did the same when he mentioned Michael and Satan fighting over Moses' corpse. The OT doesn't mention that, either.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 2:28:15 PM PST
ABOTA says:
"Jesus was no Karaite."

Agreed. As I already said, the 2 Tim passage states that Timothy was "fully equipped" by the "holy scriptures." That doesn't invalidate the use of tradition. As an example, Jesus prayed before meals, whereas the Torah states to pray after meals. Praying before meals is an add-on. (Doesn't mean he didn't pray after meals. Many people do both.) My point isn't about praying before meals, it's about the use of tradition when it doesn't contradict the word of God.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 2:43:58 PM PST
Lew Archer says:
Kevin Bold,

When I saw the title, I thought this was your baby!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 3:40:51 PM PST
Tammy says:
ABOTA has started some of the most interesting threads in this forum lately. Interesting in a way that is different. I still haven't been able to "pin down" exactly what he or she believes, but the arguments always make a LOT of sense and are not at all predictable!

Posted on Feb 25, 2012 3:46:04 PM PST
Tammy says:
...not to mention "smelly cow on a mountain" makes me laugh!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 3:55:53 PM PST
Lew Archer says:
Tammy,

Then what say ye we ask?

ABOTA, are you a Christian?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 4:04:24 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 25, 2012 4:05:05 PM PST
Tammy says:
I'm guessing not. Not "typical" anyway. I'm thinking maaaayyyybeee Hebraic Christian. I'm leaning more toward Jewish...ish.

I vaguely remember he/she mentioning something on another thread about not sharing my beliefs, but mine so don't fit any mold that it doesn't really reveal very much.

I would also like to know which end of the "he/she" I can drop off!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 4:11:21 PM PST
ABOTA says:
maaaayyyybeee

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 4:42:24 PM PST
Tammy says:
Very funny!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 4:51:19 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Isaiah 26:4 just says the "lord" is an "everlasting rock". That's the only place I can find in the entire Bible that says anything like it. "Rock of Ages" is undoubtedly a poetic rendering of that idea.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 25, 2012 4:52:11 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Sola Scriptura was a tenet of Martin Luther's, and was created by him specifically to reject the concept of tradition being equal with the Bible.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  14
Total posts:  56
Initial post:  Feb 24, 2012
Latest post:  May 26, 2014

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