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The return of "Noah's Flood". Newer geological evidence supports the occurrence of a global flood.


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Initial post: Sep 24, 2012 5:57:40 AM PDT
W. ANDERSON says:
The Pleistocene Extinction Event Explained

While the causes of some of the earlier extinction events have been identified and explained, the most recent one; the Pleistocene, has remained a controversial event without a clear cut answer. That is no longer the case, as there is a clear answer supported by the evidence that reveals exactly what happened to wipe out so many animal species over the entire globe. While a gradual extinction taking place over thousands of years has been the favored theory since it is a better fit for the current two popular extinction theories; climate change and/or over hunting, the evidence is actually more supportive of a sudden extinction event that occurred Earth wide at the same time.

"The extinction chronology of North American Pleistocene mammals therefore can be characterized as a synchronous event that took place 12,000-10,000 radiocarbon years B.P. Results favor an extinction mechanism that is capable of wiping out up to 35 genera across a continent in a geologic instant."
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/49/20641.full

What occurred in North American, would logically have occurred Earth wide, since the Pleistocene was a global event and was not limited to North America.

A sudden global extinction event is of course in complete conflict with both the Climate change theory and the Over Hunting theory, neither of these theories can account for such an event. The timing of this sudden extinction has also always been linked to the end of the Pleistocene and the beginning of the Holocene since it is the extinction event itself that is the dividing marker that separates the two periods of geological time and marks the end of the last Ice Age. The lost of the Ice Age ice sheets is tied to the extinction event, and this connection is not coincidental.

Sudden events require a sudden trigger event that sets them off. Increasing evidence has been mounting in the last few years, that tie a comet impact to the Pleistocene extinction event and the end of the Ice Age. Evidence has come to light that indicates that a comet impact occurred on the Canadian Ice Sheet during the last stage of the Ice Age, the Younger Dryas, which was approximately 1,500 years long. (see link section on original page) Currently it is theorized that the comet impact occurred at the beginning of the Younger Dryas cooling period and caused the down turn in temperature and caused at least some of the extinctions by climate change rather than just by direct impact destructive events. As the evidence is considered, it is clear that the impact event occurred not at the beginning of the Younger Dryas, but at the end of it, which puts the Pleistocene Extinction event squarely where it has always been believed to have occurred. One of the key reasons for this, is the association of Mega or Super floods which occurred at the end of the Younger Dryas as the Ice Age ended, with the expected results of a series of comet impacts on an Ice Sheet. Those huge erosive drainage events are what sets the end of the last Ice age advance apart from other stages of the Ice Age, for those huge releases of water created landforms that were not created by earlier retreats of the Ice Sheets. These huge and unique landforms are seen in the vastly oversized river valleys that drain from areas once covered by the last advance of the Ice Sheets like the Mississippi river valley, and in streamlined land forms which were subjected to sheet flooding and glacial drainage valleys which today remain like isolated canyons with no rivers that flow through them.

What happen is the Ice Sheet impacts caused a very large and sudden release of glacial melt water which flooded out across the surrounding landscape and flowed into the seas. The largest out pouring occurred in the Hudson Bay area where the impact triggered the release of ice that had been backed up and trapped in the bay. This sudden emptying of the bay is seen in ocean floor sediments across the floor of the Atlantic Ocean which contains a layer of small stones dropped from icebergs as they melted and dropped the stones which had been carried in the ice. This huge release of ice from Hudson Bay affected global sea levels and trigged a massive surge event into the empting bay. Combined with the very large releases of glacial melt water from other parts of the Ice Sheet, enough water poured into the oceans to noticeably raise global sea levels. This rise in sea level flooded the edges of Ice sheets and glaciers in other parts of the world, which at the end of the Ice Age, were already prone to surging, to surge en masse in a global event. Like a row of giant dominos, huge sections of the former Ice Sheets surged into the rising seas, creating a run away chain reaction of flooding and surging.

As the seas rose, the water began to back up the rivers causing them to over flow their newly created banks and flood the surrounding land, as shown by glacial drop stones being found on these banks, showing that the rivers backed up while carrying rock bearing glacial ice. Further evidence for this flooding is seen in the discovery of whale bones in the state of Michigan and in other recent marine fossils which are sometimes found far from the sea in places where they could not have reached in any other way. Another proof of the occurrence of the extent of this late glacial flooding event is the presence of marine diatoms found in the upper Midwest. Marine diatoms are used as a marker to identify past marine flooding events, and the evidence shows that the sea water rose high enough to reach the edges of the retreating Ice Sheets, effectively flooding the world for a brief period of time until the Earth's crust shifted and land areas rebounded and the sea floors where depressed back down to their pre-Ice Age positions.

The evidence indicates that the Pleistocene Extinction event was caused by a global impact triggered Ice Age out burst flood event, which is why it was global, sudden and small animals survived more than large animals. This explains why the Clovius culture disappeared, what happened to the Ice Age hunting groups and how they were replaced by the later farmers. The Pleistocene was flushed away and replaced by the Holocene as the water drained and the survivors inherited a largely emptied landscape. It was a restart, and why we see a major break in the geological record at the Pleistocene/Holocene boundary.

More evidence and supporting references are found at; http://www.squidoo.com/solving-the-mystery-of-the-biblical-flood

Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 24, 2012 6:13:48 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 24, 2012 7:07:12 AM PDT
I'm skeptical. Such a flood would presumably leave the same kinds of geological formations as are seen in the Scablands of eastern Washington. There is no evidence that such formations are found worldwide in the geologic record corresponding to the time to which you are referring, or indeed at any time in earth's past.

Posted on Sep 24, 2012 6:30:19 AM PDT
There were a number of *localized* floods during the Pleistocene: http://www.geo.arizona.edu/palynology/geos462/04floods.html

This includes the flooding of the region now called the Black Sea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outburst_flood#The_Black_Sea_.28around_7.2C600_years_ago.29

which lead to the "Black Sea Deluge Hypothesis": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

But a *global* flood which parallels the Noah myth? Yeah, not so much... This strikes me as being much like those "Noah's Ark has been found!" stories that pops up every so often.

Posted on Sep 24, 2012 6:57:36 AM PDT
Brian Curtis says:
The original PNAS article makes no mention of a flood being associated with the Pleistocene extinction event; that's purely a made-up story the Squidoo author attached to the coattails of a legitimate scientific study to lend credence to a myth that has no supporting scientific evidence.

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/49/20641.full

Posted on Sep 24, 2012 7:41:41 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 24, 2012 7:43:03 AM PDT
THere has always been localized flooding and over vast periods of time and the continual action of plate tectonics has caused massive changes in the position and formation of continents. What Wm Scott Anderson is doing is taking a giant "leap of faith" trying, unsuccessfully, to link a scientific article with an unsupported religious contention. As Brian Curtis, rightfully, points out the PNAS article doesn't support the silly Squidoo story about "global flooding". Michael is also correct in saying this post is very similar to the bogus "Noah's Ark has been found" junk all over the internet.
However sincere he might have been in posting it, W. Scott Anderson's "new evidence" forum turns out to be another pathetic attempt to legitimize ancient myths with fabricated evidence.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 24, 2012 11:28:18 AM PDT
The Weasel says:
Even if we assume the occurence of Noah's flod, either gloabal or local; what would that prove in your opinion? Would Noah's Ark be more likely now? Or are you postulating that there is a God, but that the Bible is NOT to be literally interpreted?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 24, 2012 4:08:40 PM PDT
W. ANDERSON says:
Dear arpard fazakas;

You stated; "Such a flood would presumably leave the same kinds of geological formations as are seen in the Scablands of eastern Washington. There is no evidence that such formations are found worldwide in the geologic record corresponding to the time to which you are referring, or indeed at any time in earth's past."

As another posted pointed out, the Black Sea flooded suddenly, and we only find the flood caused erosion in limited areas where the flow was funneled by the topography. We do not find that the entire area flooded area has any resemblance to the Scablands, and yet the area was indeed flood, and is still under water today. A global flood would only produce Scaland like erosion in areas where the water flow was channeled.

Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 24, 2012 4:17:52 PM PDT
W. ANDERSON says:
Dear The Weasel;
You asked; "Even if we assume the occurence of Noah's flod, either gloabal or local; what would that prove in your opinion? Would Noah's Ark be more likely now? Or are you postulating that there is a God, but that the Bible is NOT to be literally interpreted?"

An assumption of a global flood or of anything else, would of course proven nothing, since nothing is proved by making an assumption.
Proving that a global flood has occurred, would certainly make the postulation of Noah's Ark more believable, since an ark without a flood would be less believable.

Yes of course there is a God, but that is another topic, outside the range of this discussion.

I find that those who interpret the Bible literally, tend to be overly literally to the point of irrationality.

Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 24, 2012 7:41:56 PM PDT
"Proving that a global flood has occurred, would certainly make the postulation of Noah's Ark more believable, since an ark without a flood would be less believable..."

Well, Noah could have put wheels on the Ark. But I don't think too many things are "less believable" than a bunch of looney "researchers" suggesting a global flood and then postulating "Hey, you know, if there really was a global flood, someone might have built an ark! And if they did, that someone might have been named Noah!! And he might have..."

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 25, 2012 5:46:45 AM PDT
If we accept your argument, one would still expect that if there was truly a global flood there would be many areas where the flow would be channeled, producing many areas around the world which look like the Scablands, all at the same time in the geological record. This is not the case.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 25, 2012 12:36:55 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 25, 2012 6:28:47 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 25, 2012 6:30:35 PM PDT
W. ANDERSON says:
Dear arpard fazakas;

You posted; "If we accept your argument, one would still expect that if there was truly a global flood there would be many areas where the flow would be channeled, producing many areas around the world which look like the Scablands, all at the same time in the geological record. This is not the case."

So you never heard of the late glacial super flooding that occurred at the end of the last ice age? We have many examples of very large releases of water from the late ice age glaciers and ice sheets. The evidence is vast enough that it can be observed while flying cross country by commercial jet in the USA. Specific examples would include the oversized river valleys seen in nearly all rivers that drain formerly glaciated areas. Such as the Mississippi, which on the west side of Wisconsin, looks like a brook in the huge valley it sits in. Other examples include glacial outwash areas where numerous currently dry channels where cut, like here in the Kettle moraine area in Wisconsin. Then there are the scabland like erosional effects in choke points where the water from vast super floods from the then existing ice sheets was funneled, and these features are found in a number of locations around the world and they all date to the end of the ice age.

"Recognition of the Missoula flood helped other geologists identify similar landforms in Asia, Europe, Alaska, and the American Midwest, as well as on Mars. There is now compelling evidence for many gigantic ancient floods where glacial ice dams failed time and again: At the end of the last glaciation, some 10,000 years ago, giant ice-dammed lakes in Eurasia and North America repeatedly produced huge floods. In Siberia, rivers spilled over drainage divides and changed their courses. England's fate as an island was sealed by erosion from glacial floods that carved the English Channel. These were not global deluges as described in the Genesis story of Noah, but were more focused catastrophic floods taking place throughout the world. "http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jul-aug/06-biblical-type-floods-real-absolutely-enormous

If these events had a common trigger, you have the source of the water enough for a global flood.

Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Posted on Sep 25, 2012 7:40:01 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 25, 2012 8:38:52 PM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
W. Anderson,

Do you plan on doing a thread on the return of Christ and the setting up of his headquarters in Brooklyn?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 5:43:29 AM PDT
Oh please. You don't know any more about geology than you do about any other branch of science, which is zero, so why do you make these kinds of comments? Shouldn't Christians have a little humility?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 5:44:51 AM PDT
What you describe is not a global distribution. It's a distribution in the areas where the ice sheets were retreating.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 5:50:08 AM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Hey, BoMan, you must know what religion Anderson is.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 4:27:47 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 4:28:34 PM PDT
W. ANDERSON says:
Dear arpard fazakas;

You posted; "What you describe is not a global distribution. It's a distribution in the areas where the ice sheets were retreating."

And that was the source of the water that flooded the world.

IF, all these glacial caused super floods occurred simultaneously, the combined influx of water into the seas, would have raised the sea level for a time until the earth's crust adjusted to the shift in weight. It all comes down to the question of timing. If a common trigger released a set of these floods together, the resulting rise in sea level would have been great enough to trigger massive surging events of glaciers that reached to the sea as the rising sea level flooded and lifted the edge of the Ice Sheet reducing the resistance that held it in place. The surging would have in turn raised the sea level higher yet, which of course would have trigger more glacial surging as the sea level rose higher and lifted more of the ice sheet edges free of the surface beneath them. With conditions at the end of the last Ice Age, they were such that a global flood was a possibility if a chain reaction in glacial surging and sea level rise was started by a massive super flooding event. If you check my webpage in the first post, there is evidence of a comet impact event towards the end of the last ice age, that may very well have triggered super flooding releases from one or more ice sheets. We also have evidence that there was a global flood at that time, with the sea level rising high enough to reach the edges of the remaining Ice sheets and glaciers, in effect covering the world in water, liquid or frozen, for a time.

Even today, it is feared that rising temperatures could cause an increase in sea level due to increased melt water from the world's remaining glaciers and ice sheets, which in turn could trigger glacial surging as the rising sea level lifts the ice on the edge of the glacier, allowing the glacier to slide into the sea. The estimates for such a global flood today range from 240 feet to more than 400 feet. Such a flood would be small compared to the massive global flood that the late lce Age glaciers could have produced.

Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 4:35:15 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
arpard fazakas,
Yes Christians should have humility and I need to work on that. Nevertheless why would you say that the scablands were the result of a massive flood and not the Grand Canyon?
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 4:43:59 PM PDT
Joe W says:
A flood carves a lot of shallow wide channels. It does not carve a single narrow deep canyon. You know...flood == wide area

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 4:45:00 PM PDT
Rev. Otter says:
<<why would you say that the scablands were the result of a massive flood and not the Grand Canyon?>>

probably because they're very different. one has features consistent with a rapid draining event (and inconsistent with gradual erosion), and the other has features consistent with gradual erosion (and inconsistent with rapid draining). :)

Posted on Sep 27, 2012 12:42:29 AM PDT
brunumb says:
If trying to find evidence for a naturally occurring global flood is in order to validate the Noah story, then I can't see the point. The biblical flood was supposed to be a 'God-did-it' miraculous event and not a natural one.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2012 2:12:29 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
B. Josephson says "Hey BoMan, you must know what religion Anderson is".

Well, some people still have the courage to post their profiles. I commend Anderson for THAT. However I couldn't resist poking a little fun when he claims to be a truth seeker.

How anyone can know the history of the Jehovahs Witnesses and claim to be a critical thinker is beyond me.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2012 2:19:56 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 27, 2012 2:25:15 AM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Actually there is one JW who makes some really thoughtful posts, Michael, but Anderson is a different story. So I would not say all lack critical skills.

Michael and I actually agree on a number of things, though I am too onery to agree with anyone all of the time.

I should add that since I have defended JWs on some threads, some have assumed I am one.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2012 2:48:48 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
B. Josephson,

Personally, to me, they are ALL myths, be it Jw's, Fundes, Mormons, or whatever.

However, the problem I have with the JW's is that they claim to be the voice of God on earth, yet seem to always misread God when it comes to His sons return.

I thought the mark of a prophet is 100% accuracy?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2012 2:55:54 AM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Bo Man I suggest you read this book, When Prophecy Fails.

I have to say that I purposely rarely have quoted from the Apocalypse of John on Amazon because it is so symbolic that people have interpreted it in what looks to me as incredibly wild ways.

My bet is that this is where JWs got their ideas of when Jesus would come back from (or the book of Daniel which is the second favorite for different interpretations of the future).

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat
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