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Mary was sinless (Part VI)

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Initial post: Sep 26, 2012 6:40:05 AM PDT
Kevin Bold says:
No end in sight for Catholics telling the truth...

Posted on Sep 26, 2012 6:54:53 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 6:55:18 AM PDT
down2erth says:
Ah the mystery is solved; now I know why I couldn't post to the previous thread . . .

Patricia asks:
1. The Catholic Church teaches that the Passover is typology.
2. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus' body was sacrificed at his death, not the Last Supper.
3. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus' sacrifice was completed on the cross. He even said "it is finished."

Where is the conflict between what you believe and what the Catholic Church teaches?

d2e: No conflict in 1, 2 or 3; I just don't equate that with transubstantiation, so I guess that's where the conflict begins. Again, a case of differing viewpoints.

Posted on Sep 26, 2012 7:33:09 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
The Catechism rocks the lie.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:02:58 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 8:39:14 AM PDT
I.L. Walker,

RE: "The Catechism rocks the lie."

That may well be the most stunningly truthful admission you have ever posted! Must have been painful to post.

You are aware of the meaning of the word "rocks" as you used it, here. Right?

Hint: It does not equate to "disproves"...

It would be like saying, "Boy! Kevin sure 'rocked' the house at 'Open Mike Comedy Night' at the Ramada Inn, last Friday! The other three people there all thought his new riff was hilarious."

Grace and Peace,

S.D.G.

Posted on Sep 26, 2012 8:08:46 AM PDT
Mr.Gatz says:
This baby bickering will not prove anyone to be right, it's actually foolish according to the proverbs to do this. Take the Word of God for what it is. The Word. Follow Him, not a organization.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:18:22 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
BEW - When George Foreman rocked Joe Frazier with a right upper cut, Howard Cosell famously said " Down goes Frazier, Down goes Frazier....." When the Catechism rocks the lie, all who value the Truth say, "Down goes satan, down goes satan......" Does that help, Bruce? How does promoting a lie glorify God Alone, SDG? Perhaps it reveals who the god you glorify truely is, Bruce.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:21:37 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
MG - Who could serve the Truth and let the lie stand? Jesus established the Truth, true Christians both seek and find the True Church Jesus established for a purpose while we await His return. It has never faltered against the lie, as Jesus assured His followers it would not.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:21:43 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 8:22:00 AM PDT
Mr. Gatz, Actually, we follow His Church that gave us the new testament, as to which of the over 75 letters written, were to be included in the new testament and which were not, the same Church authority that put an end to all the debating at the assembly of baptized believer, since "Scripture alone" could not, (Acts 15:12, Matthew 16:16-19, John 21;17, 1 Thessalonians 5;12, Ephesians 3:10, Luke 10:16, John 1:42). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:23:58 AM PDT
"I just don't equate that with transubstantiation, so I guess that's where the conflict begins." --- down2erth

But wasn't the word "transubstantiation" merely coined to further
define the bread and wine becoming the actual Body and Blood of
Jesus, as believed by the early Christians, from the very beginning?

Or...

Are you siding with Huldrych Zwingli, himself a "former Catholic
priest," who in blasphemy said the Eucharist is only a "memorial,"
contradicting what was said in the Didache, the Teaching of the
Apostles?

"Let no one eat or drink of the Eucharist with you except those who
have been baptized in the Name of the Lord."[1] It was in reference
to this that the Lord said, "Do not give that which is holy to dogs." Matthew 7:6.

[1] The Didache, 9:1

Meaning, the Eucharist is holy and unique and is not to be given
out lightly, to anyone and everyone who comes along, that it
was not "just a memorial."

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:32:12 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 8:33:47 AM PDT
QUESTER says:
"I just don't equate that with transubstantiation, so I guess that's where the conflict begins." --- down2erth

Barbara Lawlor says:

But wasn't the word "transubstantiation" merely coined to further
define the bread and wine becoming the actual Body and Blood of
Jesus, as believed by the early Christians, from the very beginning?

Or...

Are you siding with Huldrych Zwingli, himself a "former Catholic
priest," who in blasphemy said the Eucharist is only a "memorial,"
contradicting what was said in the Didache, the Teaching of the
Apostles?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In all honesty ... saying that the Eucharist is "only a memorial" is not blasphemy.

It, perhaps, doesn't capture all of the nuance of meaning expressed in Didache (and even that is debatable), ... but it certainly is not blasphemy.

Such highly charged declarations are what, often, make Catholicsm so unapproachable.

You (by this I reference Catholicism) are just so apt to throw out your charges of heresy, blasphemy, anathema ...

Is that what you think Jesus was really about ... ???

"Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you REST.

Take my yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am MEEK and LOWLY in heart, and you shall find REST unto your souls.

For My yoke is EASY, and my burden is LIGHT."

Matthew 11:28-30

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:35:41 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 8:43:32 AM PDT
I.L. Walker,

Thank you for confirming you understood the meaning of the word "rocks," when used in this context.

Yes, George Foreman did, indeed, "rock" Ali with a right upper-cut. Which means he threw the punch remarkably well.

Just as the Catechism so very effectively advances the "lie." As you so elegantly stated...

BTW: The "S.D.G." states the familiar and well-understood "soli Deo gloria." It is obvious to all it reflects the only true god: God, as embraced by the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Which other gods do you intend to glorify?

Grace and Peace, Little Brother,

S.D.G.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:37:39 AM PDT
Ferdinand says:
Kevin Bold says:
No end in sight for Catholics telling the truth...
--------------------------
Awesome!!!

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:38:07 AM PDT
down2erth says:
But Jesus said (twice) regarding the partaking of the bread and wine "...in remembrance of me."

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:42:31 AM PDT
QUESTER says:
down2erth says:

But Jesus said (twice) regarding the partaking of the bread and wine " ... in remembrance of me."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed ...

Posted on Sep 26, 2012 8:42:32 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 6:25:53 PM PDT
Ferdinand says:
Re: "Take the Word of God for what it is."

And we Catholics do. We call the Word of God LORD, Savior, the Son of God, the Emmanuel. That is what He is.

Now, the words written in the Bible and inspired by God, we assessed based in what the Deposit of Faith tells us. That way we avoid horrible errors like I do not need to repent of my sins, if I was saved, because I'm going to Heaven, I have free pass.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:49:11 AM PDT
QUESTER,

The "blasphemy" I refer to is the arrogance of the individual
interpretation of Zwingli who took it upon himself to throw
out the true feelings, the true understanding of the Eucharist,
who threw out the Teachings of the Apostles.

QUESTER, it was they, the Apostles, who walked those dusty
roads with Jesus, not Zwingli.

So, I prefer to accept the understanding so beautifully expressed
in the Didache.

I prefer to accept fully the Words of Jesus when He said, "Do this."
"This is my Body...This is my Blood."

I accept this without equivocation.

You?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:53:39 AM PDT
I. L. Walker says:
BEW - When that boat starts rocking, be sure to embrace your understanding and leave that life vest untouched. Just for you BEW, I will restate my claim - The catechism exposes the lies and crushes it with the Truth. Some seek the cure, some deny the disease, one turns to the Truth, one turns to the lie. Get a check up before it's too late. By the way, to glorify the lie, as protestants do, is to serve the master of lies. That is the Truth which those riddled with the cancerous lie confront when they face the Master, whose Grace they have rejected and ridiculed.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:53:45 AM PDT
QUESTER says:
Barbara Lawlor says:
QUESTER,

I prefer to accept fully the Words of Jesus when He said, "Do this."

"This is my Body ... This is my Blood."

I accept this without equivocation.

You?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do ... and without (the unmentioned) Transubstantiation.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 8:58:24 AM PDT
QUESTER says:
I. L. Walker says:

BEW - When that boat starts rocking, be sure to embrace your understanding and leave that life vest untouched. Just for you BEW, I will restate my claim - The catechism exposes the lies and crushes it with the Truth. Some seek the cure, some deny the disease, one turns to the Truth, one turns to the lie. Get a check up before it's too late. By the way, to glorify the lie, as protestants do, is to serve the master of lies. That is the Truth which those riddled with the cancerous lie confront when they face the Master, whose Grace they have rejected and ridiculed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The catechism is UNINSPIRED and FALLIBLE.

Hopefully you aren't basing your faith upon it.

And why would you ... when you have the INSPIRED scriptures ?

Posted on Sep 26, 2012 8:58:59 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 9:17:47 AM PDT
Ferdinand says:
Reading yesterday Chapter 12 of Dr. Scott Hahn's A Father Who Keeps His Promises: God's Covenant Love in Scripture, he narrates hoe the events of the Last Supper and the Crucifiction corelated to the Passover. He goes to narrate how many theologians support the idea that Jesus and the 12 were celabrating a Haggah, which requires 4 cups of wine. it goes on to say that Jesus drinks the first 3 but abruptly, interrups the ceramony and notes shall not drink of the fruit until he is in glory. And in fact He did, for He did not dring until He was given the vinegar and said it's finished. Dr. Hahn brought his findings to one class in the seminary and an ex-Catholic named Bob asked if what he was impplying is that the eucharist was in reality a sacrifice. He noted that he did not to much thought about it. Later, the same Bob stop him and noted that what he discussed in the class was exactly the Baltimore Catechism taught. He was surprise and I believe that Bob was more.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 9:07:40 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2012 10:10:16 AM PDT
Ferdinand says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 9:07:58 AM PDT
I.L. Walker,

Sorry to see that you now must retract your previous statement. Perhaps, you will be a bit more precise in the future to avoid continued embarrassment to you and your denomination.

Just for the record, your position was correct before your retraction...

Grace and Peace, Little Brother,

S.D.G.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 9:12:47 AM PDT
Kevin Bold says:
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Posted on Sep 26, 2012 9:13:41 AM PDT
down2erth says:
Interesting sidelight regarding the Didache: Athanasius (one of the Great Doctors of the Church, as assigned by Pope Pius V), included the Didache in the apocrypha; moreover, his list of the NT books exactly parallels the list in the modern "Protestant" NT.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2012 9:18:52 AM PDT
Kevin Bold says:
QUESTER says: The catechism is UNINSPIRED and FALLIBLE.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is based solely on infallible and inspired documents, which is more than one can say about its Protestant counterpart.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
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Initial post:  Sep 26, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 1, 2012

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