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Israel, God's judgments and the last days we are living in; Part Four

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Initial post: Oct 11, 2012 9:51:07 AM PDT
OSAS says:
We are living in the last days. The disciples asked Jesus ..."What will be the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?" Matthew 24"3

"And Jesus answered and said to them "Take heed that no one deceives you. Many will come in My name, saying I am the Christ, and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not come yet. For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences and earthquakes in various places. All of these are the beginning of sorrows." Matthew 24:4-8

"And there will be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men's hears failing them from fear and the expectation of those which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken." Luke 21:25

"For thus says the Lord of Host; Once more (it is a little while) I will shake heaven and earth, the sea and dry land and I will shake all nations..." Haggai 2:6-7

Signs in the Sun, Moon, and Stars-Just the First 3 Months of 2012:

Nations are attempting to divide the small Nation of Israel, God's land, and the UN wants to declare a Palestinian State within it's borders and divide God's City Jerusalem. This would give Israel indefensible borders and set her up for annihilation which is something God will never allow. The prophet's Joel and Zechariah prophesied these events thousands of years ago and warned of God's fierce judgment against all nations who take part in dividing the land, His City and those who come against His people. This includes the United States, whose government continually attempts to take steps to orchestrate Israel's division and ultimate destruction, instead of defending Israel's right to exist in it's God given land as a sovereign nation.

Jerusalem and its alternative Hebrew name Zion appear 850 times in the Old Testament and 142 Times in the New Testament for a total of 992 times in the Holy Bible. Neither the name Jerusalem nor any of the 16 various Arabic names for Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran. In an expanded interpretation of the Koran from the 12th century, one passage is said to refer to Jerusalem.

Regarding the land that God has promised Israel, Genesis 15:18 declares, "To your descendants [Abraham's] I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates." God later confirms this promise to Abraham's son Isaac, and Isaac's son Jacob (whose name was later changed to Israel). When the Israelites were about to invade the Promised Land, God reiterated the land promise, as recorded in Joshua 1:4, "Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates - all the Hittite country - to the Great Sea on the west."

With these two passages in mind, the territory that God gave to Israel included everything from the Nile River in Egypt to Lebanon (North to South) and everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River (West to East). This includes all of the land modern Israel currently possesses, plus all of the land of the Palestinians (the West Bank and Gaza), plus parts of Egypt and Syria, all of Jordan, part of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Israel currently possesses only a small percentage of the land God has promised.

In addition to the above passages, Ezekiel 47:13-48:35 recount's the Lord's measurements of the land given to the Israelites. He begins with "Thus says the Lord God: `These are the borders'" and finishes with a declaration that its capital (Jerusalem) shall be called "The Lord is There." (Ez 48:35)

Israel is the only nation on earth who has been allocated land by Almighty God with the title deed to their land recorded in the Holy Bible.

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the Euphrates." Genesis 15:18

"And I will give unto thee and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God." Genesis 17:8

God said, "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee, and in thee shall all the families be blessed." Genesis 12:3

And again God said, "The land shall not be sold for ever, for the land is Mine, for ye are strangers and sojourners with Me." Leviticus 25:23

"I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted My land." Joel 3:2

God said: "But I have chosen Jerusalem that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people." 2 Chronicles 6:11

"Thus says the Lord of hosts: "He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; [Israel] for he who touches you, touches the apple of His eye." (Zech 2:8)

"The day of the Lord is near for all nations. As you have done, it will be done to you: your deeds will return upon you own head." (Obadiah 15)

"It shall be in that day [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem." Zach 12:9

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Psalm 122:6

"So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, at the door!" Matt 24:33

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 10:08:47 AM PDT
OSAS says:
Shakepen says:
TD: thanks for the Biblical history rehash, but I've already read it in Ehrman. The fact is the Gospel writers are anonymous. Sure, the names are familiar and presumably the names of disciples or people who knew Jesus, but it cannot be proven that they wrote the Gospels that bear their names. first, just think of the time between the death of Jesus and the publishing dates. These people would have been long dead by 70-100 AD. That someone like Matthew, one of the illiterate disciples that followed Jesus knew Greek, is virtually impossible. Reading and writing was a skill of the wealthy.

Incidentally, I have 5 of Bart Ehrman's books and 4 of his Teaching Company tapes. He is the Head of the Divinity School at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He's the author of numerous articles and, hence, a noted Biblical scholar, who reads Greek and Hebrew, which allows him to use his own translations of the ancient texts. Now, those are Ehrman's qualifications. How about yours! Oh, one other point, Ehrman was a fundamentalist Christian at one time, who believed the Bible was the inerrant word of God. His progress to agnosticism was his inability to explain how a so-called merciful God would allow the horrible suffering that one knows takes place daily in the world. In fact, his tape of Why We Suffer is so depressing to listen to that one wants to jump off a bridge after listening to the first CD!

As for the heretical teachings of the "other Gospels," whom do you think decided they were heretical? That's right, the winners. When Constantine convened the Council of Nicea, he was the Roman Emperor. Who had his ear? The RCC of Rome, the capital of the empire although bishops were from all over the empire. Another point, who gave the structural organization to the church, e.g., the title of "bishop," for example? Answer: the RCC!

TDM: The thing about Biblical Christianity is that even a child can understand the Bible when the Holy Spirit gives them His wisdom and understanding. That is what Bart Ehrman is missing. To many people try to intellectualize the Bible but the Scripture tells us that the natural man no matter how intelligent He is cannot understand it, it requires the wisdom and revelation of the Holy Spirit of God to spiritually discern the truths within this supernatural book. All other "gospels" and so called religious doctrine are false. The 66 books of the Holy Bible were inspired by God and penned by writers He choose to write about events He inspired and those who compiled God's inspired manuscripts into the 66 books of the Bible were also chosen by God who is quite capable of making sure His inspired message to humanity was bound together, protected and preserved through the Ages. Today we still have the same message of salvation by grace through faith that Paul taught to the first Churches, the only way for us to have a personal relationship with God and eternal life in His presence in this Age.

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 10:19:34 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 11, 2012 10:20:39 AM PDT
OSAS says:
Shakepen says:
TD: Jesus was dead when Paul supposedly met him! Paul called himself an "Apostle of Jesus." How could he be an Apostle if he never met Jesus in the flesh? Seeing Jesus in a dream doesn't count. Lots of people see Jesus in dreams.

TDM: Jesus was not dead, Jesus is God, He resurrected from the dead three days after His crucifixion. He was on the earth for 40 days after His resurrection and seen by hundreds of people. He appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, it was not a dream. He taught Paul for three years through revelation while Paul was in Arabia before He started His ministry. Jesus Himself chose Paul to take His message of salvation and redemption to the Gentiles. The Bible is my standard of Truth. I believe it is God's inspired Word and every word is true. Since it appears you don't believe it is God's Word and true, we have no standard of truth by which to have a conversation. I am not here to argue everything I say with you. It is not my job to convince you of anything. My job is to share the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ and answer valid questions for people who are truly seeking to understand God's truth and prophetic events.

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 10:24:21 AM PDT
OSAS says:
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Posted on Oct 11, 2012 10:33:29 AM PDT
OSAS says:
Shakepen says:
Cheri: Jesus did not say to worship him as a God. The God of Jesus was the God of the OT. God was to be worshipped, not Jesus, according to Jesus.

TDM: This is only your opinion. Born again believers know that Jesus is God the Son, the second person in the Holy Trinity came to earth in the flesh for the specific purpose of paying the penalty for our sin in our place so that we could have the opportunity to be reconciled with God. He set aside His deity and submitted to the will of the Father while on earth so that He could fulfill His purpose for being here. He came as the Jewish Messiah but was rejected because the Jews were not expecting a suffering servant but a warrior King to save them from Rome. They did not understand that the Messiah would actually come twice, first to provide a way to save their eternal soul from God's eternal wrath and judgment for their failure to keep His moral law and the second time as the warrior King who will bring peace on earth. Jesus is God and He is worthy to be worshiped and praised!

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 11:00:16 AM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
>Steve: Slam TDM at your own peril.

Slam Dunk.

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 11:00:40 AM PDT
Brian Curtis says:
So, does TD Mills often start new threads just to talk to himself?

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 11:02:10 AM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
>>>Bryan Borich says: In other words YOU NEED TO BE A GNOSTIC TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE :)
>>Allan: And even some self-styled atheists think of it that way '-)
>spl: Obviously the atheists want the Lie to spread. Geesh!

Than blame TDM because that is what she just claimed.

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 11:05:01 AM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
>Steve: Isis is not real. Or can you prove she is?

She is and was.

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 11:14:50 AM PDT
glenn says:
Let me ensure I've got this correct.
1. We agree that most Jews of the time spoke greek rather than Hebrew or Aramaic.
2. We agree that the most popular language of the time among non-Jews was greek.
3. We agree that most likely most, if not all, of the disciples was illiterate.

We can therefore conclude that the disciples did not actually write (as in putting pen to paper) the gospels.

We cannot say that the disciples did not dictate the gospels to people who could write.
We also cannot say that the disciples would only select people who could only write Hebrew.
Rather, doesn't it seem reasonable that the disciples would select people who could write greek, especially when considering the promise through Abraham and from the angels in Luke was to 'all the world'?

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 11:19:39 AM PDT
glenn says:
I have not read any of Ehrman's books. I have read several by his mentor Bruce Metzger.
If Ehrman used the word 'barely' in the referenced context without quantitative support for that assertion, he exceeded the bounds of scholarship and entered the realm of polemics.

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 11:57:14 AM PDT
OSAS says:
Shakepen says:
TD: How can I respond to someone who is making up scripture?

TDM: I do not make up Scripture. Isaiah 53:1-7 is a direct prophecy related to the death of Jesus Christ for the sin of the world.

"Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? " Is 53:1

TDM: This Scripture prophecies that in spite of Isaiah and other prophets who foretold of His coming only a few would recognize the Messiah when He appeared. Israel did not welcome in at His first coming. Nations did not recognize the mighty incarnate power of God in the person of Jesus, their deliver. [John 1:9-11; 12:38]

"For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him." Is 53:2

TDM: Though Jesus is true heavenly royalty, this scripture states that when He came to earth He would come arise in lowly conditions, there would be nothing spectacular about His appearance that would draw people to Him and He would wear none of the usual ornamentation of royalty, making His true identity visible only to the discerning eye of faith.

"He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our face from him; he was despised, and we esteemed Him not." Is 53:3

TDM: Isaiah prophecies that when Messiah Jesus appeared He would be hated and rejected and we see this fulfilled in the New Testament Gospels. Here Isaiah spoke for his unbelieving nation's loathing of the crucified Messiah and their lack of respect for the incarnate Son of God. Jesus suffered not only physical abuse but also mental anguish over the lack of response from those He came to save, the lost sheep of Israel. [Matt 23:37; Luke 13:34]

"Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted." Is 53:4

TDM: Messiah Jesus, the suffering Servant who was perfect and sinless bore the penalty of the sins of every person to ever be born; the griefs, sorrows and sickness of life resulting from their sin in their place to satisfy God's perfect Justice. Yet those who watched Him being crucified thought He was being punished by God for His own sins.

"But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. " Is 53:5

TDM: Messiah Jesus suffered not for His own sin because He was sinless [Heb 4:15; 7:26] but was the substitute sacrifice or the scapegoat for the sin of every person who will ever live on this earth. Jesus was beaten, nailed to a cross and thrust through His side with a spear on our behalf. Jesus Christ was the substitute recipient of God's wrath on sinners. [2 Cor 5:21; Gal. 1:3-4; Heb 10:9-10] He bore God's wrath for our sin against God's moral law for every one of us who is willing to accept His atoning sacrifice on our behalf. [Romans 10:9-10] He suffered the chastisement of God in order to secure our peace with God. Our sin separates us from God, through our faith in His sacrifice our sins are removed and we are reconciled with God, allowing us for the first time to have a personal relationship with God and to spend eternity in His presence. "By His stripes we are healed" Jesus was whipped 33 times prior to His crucifixion and those stripe provided our spiritual healing.

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every on to His own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquities [sin] of us all." Is 53:6

TDM: We have all sinned [Romans 3:9, 23] and fall short of the glory of God. We have no way to atone for our sin against God on our own, which is why The Word voluntarily came from heaven down to earth in the flesh as Jesus to make a way for us to be reconciled with God where there was no way. Messiah Jesus, the suffering Servant has sufficiently shouldered the consequence of sin and the righteous wrath of God deserved by sinners. [I Tim 2:5-6; 4:10; I John 2:2] God laid our sin upon Christ's shoulders and treated Him as if He had committed every sin ever committed by every person who would ever believe, even though He never committed any sin Himself. God did this to Him so that wrath being spent and His justice satisfied, God could then give to the account of sinners who believe, the righteousness of Christ, removing their sin and treating them as if they had done only the righteous acts of Christ. Jesus Christ voluntarily substituted His life for ours, so that through our faith in Him and what He accomplished on the cross, we could be saved from having to bare God's wrath and judgment for our sin throughout eternity.

"He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He opened not His mouth," Is 53:7

This Scripture is the basis for many New Testament reference to Christ as the Lamb of God. Christ uttered no protest or defense as He stood before Pilate on trial. He was utterly submissive to those who oppressed Him. Jesus fulfillment of this Scripture is recorded in Matt 26:63; 27:12-14; Mark 14:61; 15:5; Luke 23:9; John 19:9; I Peter 3:23. Jesus assumed the role of the sacrificial lamb on behalf of each one of us. [Ex 12:3; 6] He fulfilled this figurative role literally so that we would have the opportunity to spend eternity with God, if we chose to believe in Jesus and what He accomplished on our behalf. [John 1:29; I Pet 1:18-19; Rev 5:6]

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 12:00:26 PM PDT
OSAS says:
Theo says:
Shake- apparently the RCC had more sound doctrine in the beginning.
The Church is based on the written Word of God, especially Paul's teachings of the 'mystery doctrine.'

Martin Luther, being a priest, was allowed to read the old, dusty copies of the Scriptures that had been locked away for centuries.

That is where he discovered clearly that we are justified before God by faith and not by works.

TDM: Amen Theo.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 11, 2012 12:02:30 PM PDT
OSAS says:
I am not talking to myself, I am responding to post from part 3 of this discussion that ended before I could respond. I am a she, Tonya, not a he. ;-)

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 12:05:25 PM PDT
OSAS says:
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Posted on Oct 11, 2012 12:08:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 11, 2012 12:09:28 PM PDT
OSAS says:
Theo says:
Seeker- the Hebrew shows that we were created as a shadow image...not an exact image. ie: God has an essence and so do we.

TDM: Amen Theo! Adam was created in God's image, we are created in Adams image with a sin nature.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 11, 2012 12:09:35 PM PDT
Moses never saw God in the 'flesh', but everyone knew Moses had spoken with God face to face when he came down from the mountain.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 11, 2012 12:30:54 PM PDT
TD Mills is a she.
And who are you talking to? And who are all these other people talking to her?

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 12:54:20 PM PDT
OSAS says:
Seeker of Righteousness says:

TDM, here's the mathematical and biblical proof that Jesus arrived in 1914.

As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations ["the times of the Gentiles," King James Version] are fulfilled." Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation-the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on "Jehovah's throne" as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah's rulership.

TDM: Oh my, oh my, oh my! I do believe you are very confused. Christ has not returned. The Bible clearly states that when He returns, every eye will see Him.

"Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen." Rev 1:7

Jerusalem is still being trampled on by nations, have you not noticed the friction in the Middle East over Jerusalem? It is the capital of Israel but the "Palestinians" are claiming it as their capital. The "times of the Gentiles" has not ended. Jerusalem is not under Jewish rule. Jerusalem is not a symbol of Jehovah's ruler ship it is God's City, He put His name on it and when Jesus returns He will set up His earthly Kingdom there.

Seeker says: How and when, though, did God's rulership begin to be "trampled on by the nations"? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. "Jehovah's throne" became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this `trampling' go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem's last king, Zedekiah: "Remove the turban, and lift off the crown....It will certainly become no one's until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him." (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has "the legal right" to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the `trampling' would end when Jesus became King.

When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: "Let seven times pass over it."-Daniel 4:10-16.

In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God's rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this `trampling of Jerusalem' would be temporary-a period of "seven times." How long a period is that?

Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal "a thousand two hundred and sixty days." "Seven times" would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop `trampling' on God's rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem's fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of "a day for a year," the "seven times" would cover 2,520 years.

The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, "the appointed times of the nations" ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God's heavenly King.-Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.

TDM: I don't think I have ever heard such a creative interpretation of these passages as you have just given. Christ has not returned. The events chronicled in the Book of Revelation have not yet occurred. There are speaking about events that are going to happen in the near future after the rapture or catching away of the Church, called the Tribulation period, in which God turns His attention back to Israel and pours His wrath out on the unbelieving world. Christ returns at the end of that seven year period.

The beginning of the Tribulation is marked when the antichrist "confirms a covenant with many for one week" [Daniel 9:27] this means he will confirm a peace treaty between Israel and her enemies for seven years. However "in the middle of the week" [Dan 9:27] meaning 3.5 years into the seven years "He will bring an end to sacrifice and offerings." In other words He will break the treaty and put a stop to Israel's sacrifices and offerings to God in the newly rebuilt Temple under their ancient sacrificial system. "And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determinate, is poured out on the desolate." [Daniel 9:27] This states that the antichrist will set up and image of himself in the Temple and demand to be worshiped as God which is further elaborated on in Revelation 11:2-3; 12:14; 13:15. This begins the second half of the Tribulation called the Great Tribulation [Matt 34:21], when not only is God's wrath being poured out on the unbelieving world but Satan and His demons have been completely cast our of Heaven by Michael and God's angels and he too is pouring his wrath and anger out on the world. At the end of this last final seven years the antichrist gathers the nations of the world too come against what is left of Israel in an attempt finally to annihilate the final remnant of the Jewish people. This is referred to as the Battle of Armageddon, but Christ Himself defeats the antichrist and His armies. When He returns to earth it is with the armies of heaven following Him and there will be no mistaking that He is here. [Revelation 19:11-21]

Seeker says: Just as Jesus predicted, his "presence" as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments-war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God's heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of "the last days" of this present wicked system of things.-2 Timothy 3:1-5.

TDM: These things precede His return. When He returns He puts an end to all war, He judges the nations, He binds Satan for 1000 years and He sets us His millennial kingdom. Peace will reign on earth for the first time since Adam and Eve sinned. Everyone will know He has returned, it is a physical return with the armies of Heaven not a spiritual return.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 11, 2012 12:55:10 PM PDT
OSAS says:
This is true.

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 12:59:40 PM PDT
OSAS says:
TDM Says: Unfortunately this is true. We are seeing very clearly how the god of this world veils the Gospel to those who are perishing, just as the Bible states.

B. Nixon says:
This is part of the reason the Bible speaks of eyes to see, but they see...not, or ears to hear, but they hear not...what the Spirit teaches those who are open to...Him. Never up to us, it all depends on knowing...Him.

TDM: Amen, so many do not understand what it is to have a personal relationship with God. This is what makes Christianity different from all other religions. God is a knowable God who wants to interact with us on a daily basis. Biblical Christians are "born again" through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God. It is through the Holy Spirit that we truly know Jesus and He knows us.

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 1:06:03 PM PDT
Luke 24
36 "While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, "Peace be to you."

37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit.

38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?

39 See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.

41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?"

42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish;

43 and He took it and ate it before them.

44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures..."

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 1:06:51 PM PDT
OSAS says:
B. Nixon says:
Without the Spirit of God, many religions have gleaned in the Scriptures and found verses that apply to their...already presumed beliefs...far too many, even cults and offshoot concepts, where they claim something the Scriptures did not mean...and feeding people what they "want" and not what God knows they need.

The need is for His Light, not more words. When God communicates, His LIGHT enables true understanding, not the repetitious reiteration of human logic.

TDM: Amen and so true. Reading Scriptures without the spiritual enlightenment of the Holy Spirit is futile, we only glean the surface of that the Scriptures actually say. As the Bible tells us:

"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." [1 Corinthians 2:14]

We see this so clearly throughout these discussions, our natural spirit cannot understand a supernatural Book without the spiritual discernement of the Holy Spirit that wrote it.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 11, 2012 1:16:17 PM PDT
OSAS says:
Amen, Christ was not just a spirit after His resurrection, His glorified body was flesh and bone, it was tangible as ours will be when we too are glorified at the rapture. The Bible says flesh and blood will not enter the kingdom of heaven, not flesh and bone.

Posted on Oct 11, 2012 1:31:17 PM PDT
OSAS says:
B. Nixon says:
"The word for Messiah in Hebrew is Mashiach, and means anointed. This word occurs in the Old Testament a total of 39 times, according to "The New Strong's Expanded Dictionary of the Words in the Hebrew Bible."

Since it means "anointed," the word Mashiach is not always used in Hebrew the same way as the word Messiah is used in English. It most often refers to a consecrated person such as a king or priest."

BN:It is interesting to me that Isaiah 53 is a "snapshot" of someone who will accomplish what the verses say, yet so many say it isn't Jesus Christ because it doesn't say Messiah, or fit the pre-disposed image within their own thinking. A "fingerprint" found in the Old Testament, lined up with Jesus own, and it is denied. And so...we have the choice to believe Him...or not. Most of us are set in our...choice.

Everyone will have a choice, and we will not make the other agree...but with hope, we try...

(Please bear with my is mine, and not found in the Scriptures.)

TDM: I completely agree with you BN. It is so clear to us because the Holy Spirit has given us eyes to see and ears to hear.

Prophecies depicting the credentials of the Messiah:

Genesis 3:15 - the deliver will come from mankind [the seed of the woman].

Genesis 9:26 - He will be a descendant of Shem [one of Noah's sons].

Genesis 12:3 - Abraham would be the progenitor [His ancestor] of Him in whom all families of the earth would be blessed.

Genesis 25:23 - He would come from the line of Isaac's son Jacob.

Genesis 49:10 - He would come from the line of one of Jacob's twelve sons, namely Judah.

2 Samuel 7:12-17 - He would come from Judah's descendant King David.

Micah 5:2 - He would come from a specific town within Judah, Bethlehem.

Since all tribal genealogical records were destroyed in Jerusalem in 70 AD, no Jewish person has been able to prove by record his or her genealogy. If Jesus is not the fulfillment of the "Shiloh" prophecy in Gen 49:10; there will never be anyone who can prove that he fulfills the prophecies of the Messiah's royal lineage. However Jesus Christ, the Lion of Judah, the Lamb slain to redeem Jews and Gentiles from sin's bondage, meets all the Biblical requirements.

OT Messianic Prophecies of The Lord Jesus Christ and where they are fulfilled in the NT.

Genesis 3:15 "He was the "seed of a woman" - fulfilled in Galatians 4:4

The birth of Jesus was unique, different from every other human birth. He was to be, in a one-time sense, the "Seed of the woman", as promised by God in the very beginning, not made from male seed which is normally the case. Biologically, a woman does not produce a seed, and with the exception of this case the bible refers only to the seed of men. The promised Seed would consequently have to be miraculously implanted in the womb. In this way, Jesus would not inherit the sin nature which would disqualify every son of Adam from becoming a Savior from sin. In fact, His human body was specifically "prepared" by God (Heb 10:5) so as to be born without inherent sin or genetic defects from either parent. This prophecy in Gen 3:15 clearly anticipated the future virgin birth of Christ.

Isaiah 7:14 He would be born of a virgin - fulfilled in Luke 1:26-27, 30-31

Micah 5:2 He would be born in Bethlehem - fulfilled in John 1:2; Luke 2:4-5, 7

Genesis 12:3 He would be a descendant of Abraham - fulfilled in Matthew 1:1

Genesis 49:10 He would be from the tribe of Judah = fulfilled in Luke 3:33

Isaiah 9:7 He would be an heir to the throne of David - fulfilled in Luke 1:32-33

Hosea 11:1 He would be taken to Egypt - fulfilled in Matthew 2:14-15

Jeremiah 31:15 King Herod would order the killing of all infants - fulfilled in Matt 2:16-18

Isaiah 11:2 He would be anointed by the Holy Spirit - fulfilled in Matthew 3:16-17

Isaiah 40:3-5; Malachi 3:1 His way would be prepared by a messenger of the Lord - fulfilled in Matthew 3:1-3 by John the Baptist

Isaiah 35:5-6 He would perform miracles - fulfilled in Matthew 9:35

Isaiah 61:1 He would preach the Good News - fulfilled in Luke 4:14-21

Isaiah 9:1 He would minister in Galilee - fulfilled in Matthew 4:12-16

Malachi 3:1 He would cleanse the Temple - fulfilled in Matthew 21:12-13

Daniel 9:25 He would first portrayed Himself as King 173,880 days from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem - fulfilled in Matthew 21:4-11

Zechariah 9:9 He would enter Jerusalem as a King riding on a donkey - fulfilled in Matthew 21:4-9

Psalms 118:22 He would be rejected by the Jews - fulfilled in I Peter 2:7

Psalms 22; Isaiah 53 He would died a humiliating death that would involve:

Isaiah 53:3 Rejection - fulfilled in John 1:10-11; 7:5, 48

Psalms 41:9 being betrayed by a friend - fulfilled in Luke 22:3-4; John 13:18

Zechariah 11:12 Sold for thirty pieces of silver - fulfilled in Matthew 26:14-15

Isaiah 53:7 He would be silent before His accusers - fulfilled in Matthew 27:12-14

Psalms 22:7-8 He would be mocked - fulfilled in Matthew 27:31

Isaiah 52:14 He would be beaten - fulfilled in Matthew 27:26

Isaiah 50:6 He would be spit upon - fulfilled in Matthew 27:30

Psalms 22:16 His hands and feet would be pierced - fulfilled in Matthew 27:31

Isaiah 53:12 He would be crucified with thieves - fulfilled in Matthew 27:38

Isaiah 53:12 He would pray for His persecutors - fulfilled in Luke 23:34

Zechariah 12:10 His side would be pierced - fulfilled in John 19:34

Psalm 69:21 He would be given gall and vinegar to drink - fulfilled in Matthew 27:34; Luke 23:36

Psalm 34:20 He would sustain no broken bones - fulfilled John 19:32-36

Isaiah 53:9 He would be buried in the tomb of a rich man - fulfilled in Matthew 27:57-60

Psalms 22:18 they would cast lots for His garments - fulfilled in John 19:23-24

Psalm 16:10 He would rise from the dead - fulfilled in Mark 16:6; Acts 2:31

Psalms 68:18 He would ascend into Heaven - fulfilled in Acts 1:9

Psalms 110:1 He would sit down at the right hand of God - fulfilled in Hebrews 1:3

Jesus is heir to the throne of David:

Prophesied in Isaiah 9:7; Daniel 2:44 Jesus Christ would be an heir to the throne of David - fulfilled in Luke 1:32-34

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Price of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon His kingdom, to order it and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this." Isaiah 9:6-7

"And in the days of these kings, shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." Daniel 2:44

"And behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him, the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of His kingdom there will be no end." Luke 1:32-34

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." Revelation 20:4

"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said Behold; I make all things new..." Revelation 21:3-5

"I Jesus have sent my angel to testify unto these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David..." Revelation 22:16
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