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If you're a Christian you shouldn't believe in a separate immortal soul

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Showing 1-9 of 9 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Dec 22, 2012 4:14:03 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
An immortal soul isn't a Biblical thing. The concept of an immaterial soul distinct from the body comes from Greek philosophy. The Hebrew word nephesh, translated as "soul" in some English Bibles, actually has a meaning closer to "living being". According to Genesis 2:7 God didn't make a body and put a soul into it, like a letter into an envelope of dust; rather he formed man's body from the dust, then, by breathing divine breath into it, he made the body of dust live, i.e. the dust did not embody a soul, but it BECAME a soul - a living creature.

Nephesh/souls are physical living creatures, which are not naturally immortal. Souls die and then they're conscious of nothing, they're uncomprehending during the time between death and Judgment Day. We're supposed to be resurrected, PHYSICALLY. Which is, of course, an obvious fairy tale. It's a complete violation of natural law, it goes against everything we know about the world. But God will supposedly magically make us all alivey again, ashes and bones somehow getting blood and skin again out of nowhere and the brain which will in all it's complex neural networks come back to it's precise state of... some time in your life, whenever he chooses I guess.

Bottom line, you'll be somehow conscious again as a functioning living being. Some will gain immortality, but according to the Bible, narrow is the gate to eternal life, so, if you're on the side of the majority (especially with non-Biblical philosophical imaginings of immaterial souls) your failing as a Christian.

Posted on Dec 22, 2012 4:29:48 PM PST
Macheath says:
Jack, I think you need a hobby, you spend waaay too much time creating these new threads.

Posted on Dec 22, 2012 6:14:18 PM PST
King's Kid says:
When it finally hits him, that God is and loves him in spite of himself. He's gonna be so embarrassed.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 7:05:28 PM PST
Rubedo says:
Jack Vix says:

An immortal soul isn't a Biblical thing. The concept of an immaterial soul distinct from the body comes from Greek philosophy.

Thta is also true of geometry. Maybe those pagans weren't so wrong.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 9:09:13 PM PST
our atheist in chief starts another meaningless thread to foul up this forum

why does jack not have the decency to post his atheist krapp in the atheist forum

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 9:31:34 PM PST
Well, Jack, I agree with part of what you said.

Does the Bible teach that man has an immortal soul? The fact is, not one of 858 occurrences of the word, `soul' in the Bible ever states that the soul is immortal. Instead, the Bible calls dead bodies `dead souls,' and wicked men could kill the soul of another man. The Bible often states that the soul dies.

Greek philosophy, on the other hand, revolved around the belief that man has an immortal soul, and its influence upon modern "Christian" theology cannot be discounted. Here are a few references:

"Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato." -Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35
"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes."-Plato's "Phaedo," Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246.

Plato, quotes Socrates as saying: "The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods."-Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.

"While he [Plato] sometimes speaks of one of three parts of the soul, the `intelligible,' as necessarily immortal, while the other two parts are mortal, he also speaks as if there were two souls in one body, one immortal and divine, the other mortal."-The Evangelical Quarterly, London, 1931, Vol. III, p. 121, "Thoughts on the Tripartite Theory of Human Nature," by A. McCaig.

The French Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible) says: "The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking."

The Jewish Encyclopedia affirms: "The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture"
"The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent," who lived in the fourth century before Christ. Plato believed: "The soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"-The Dialogues of Plato.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: "From the middle of the 2nd century AD Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms, both for their own intellectual satisfaction and in order to convert educated pagans. The philosophy that suited them best was Platonism." So, as the Britannica says, "the early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul's immortality."
But the Greeks did not originate the concept of the immortal soul. They borrowed it from the Babylonians: "The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life."-The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia explains: "The soul in the OT means not a part of man, but the whole man-man as a living being. Similarly, in the NT it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject."

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 11:39:17 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
I appreciate the post, great information, thanks.

My main point is that Christians, if they're to believe the Bible, should believe that the human soul is naturally mortal, immortality being still physical would be granted by God as a gift. People that believe in an immaterial soul are in the wide gate of Hell according to their Holy book.

But yes, you're right, I got some of this from wikipedia:
The traditional Christian concept of an immaterial and immortal soul distinct from the body was not found in Judaism before the Babylonian Exile, but developed as a result of interaction with Persian and Hellenistic philosophies.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 12:14:25 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 23, 2012 12:14:32 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Jack Vix,
Right. The Bible says that at the resurrection we put on immortality.

Posted on Dec 23, 2012 2:24:50 PM PST
Yog-Sothoth says:
How do you explain 2nd Corinthians 5:8 - "absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"?
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  8
Total posts:  9
Initial post:  Dec 22, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 23, 2012

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