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Interesting theology question for those who believe in being saved and forgiveness of sins


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Initial post: Dec 21, 2012 10:59:31 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 21, 2012 11:00:49 PM PST
Jack Vix says:
People will ask for forgiveness *after* sins, but it came to my attention that God is supposedly "outside of time". When you ask for forgiveness shouldn't it really just be a one time thing for all of them, past AND future? Anything after that would be unecessary to Him. You've already done it someplace in time, all is forgiven in eternity.

What do you think?

Posted on Dec 22, 2012 3:46:23 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
Good morning Jack,

I can see your view - and I won't insult it by belarouring the point that we, as people, are clearly within time - but isn't the issue really about our conscience rather than physics?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 5:46:55 AM PST
Vicki says:
Dear Jack,

I agree with Acts. God is outside of time, but we're still bound by it.

And then, feeling conviction for a sin we commit is something that needs to be dealt with by confession (agreeing with God that it's wrong), repentance (turning away from it), and being cleansed by God.

Being forgiven by God can bring us closer to Him, plus we can learn from each mistake if we make specific confessions, rather than generic timeless ones.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 7:37:14 AM PST
Jack, Indeed, it was the shedding of the Most Precious Blood of Christ, that has atoned for the ETERNAL punishment due our sins, PLUS, by our love for others, we can atone for the temporal punishment due our sins, while here on earth, 'Break off your SINS by practicing righteousness and your iniquities by showing mercy to the oppressed.", (Daniel 4:27), "Love one another, for love covers a multitude of SINS", (1 Peter 4:8, Luke 11:41, Sirach 3;30, Proverbs 16;6). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

Posted on Dec 22, 2012 7:48:19 AM PST
our resident atheistmeister asks another questin he does nto care about only to disrupt other discussions and start arguments

Posted on Dec 22, 2012 9:12:00 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 22, 2012 9:12:41 AM PST
MLC says:
It's true that God stands outside of time and space, but all of his creation is in his presence and he sees everything as now. It's like this:

You and I see a parade go by one float and one marching band at a time. God sees the whole parade all at once.

Posted on Dec 22, 2012 10:59:34 AM PST
Newbomb Turk says:
MLC: "It's true that God stands outside of time and space, but all of his creation is in his presence and he sees everything as now. It's like this:

You and I see a parade go by one float and one marching band at a time. God sees the whole parade all at once"

If that's the case, any idea of us having free will is out the window.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 11:17:18 AM PST
mrs exp says:
Jack Vix,
Jesus died for our sins; past, present and future. Still it is up to us to recognize them, repent and ask for forgiveness and also to pray for forgiveness of sins we unknowable did.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 9:07:47 PM PST
i think you atheists shoudl use your own forum
and stop cluttering up ours

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 2:24:44 PM PST
Lao Tzu says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 2:25:44 PM PST
Lao Tzu says:
horse, how do you disrupt other conversations when you start your own thread? Wait till we actually show up on the "is Mary Sinless" thread or somewhere, before you start to wail.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 2:55:52 PM PST
Lao, Yet, Jesus did not commit suicide, but allowed His life to be taken by those who Killed Him, and by His death, we have been healed and saved. (Romans 4:25, 1 Peter 1:19). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 3:21:03 PM PST
IFeelFree says:
Vicki: ...feeling conviction for a sin we commit is something that needs to be dealt with by confession (agreeing with God that it's wrong), repentance (turning away from it), and being cleansed by God.

IFF: I can see the value of recognizing a sin that you've committed, and even confessing, but repenting and being cleansed is not so straightforward. How often do people, even devout Christians, confess and repent of a sin, only to later find themselves falling back into old habit patterns, and committing the sin again? Often, people find support in a spiritual community, including 12-step programs, that give them the strength to break old habit patterns, and feel and participate in ways of functioning that are right and new. Spiritual practice such as meditation is helpful because it allows one to commune with the Holy Spirit in a way that is blissful and transforming. With continued practice, over time, the bliss of God communion deepens, such that many things that were formerly a temptation now pale in comparison the joy felt within.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 5:00:35 PM PST
Vicki says:
Dear IFF,

What you describe sounds something like what we Christians call "sanctification". This is a process that happens over time as the Christian keeps dives deeper into relationship with God. It involves the repentance that I mentioned earlier, but also includes fellowshipping with other Christians, prayer, corporate worship, serving and obeying God, helping others, studying the Bible and applying its principles, sharing one's faith, doing what we can to encourage other Christians to learn and grow, having an attitude of thanksgiving, trusting God, and making disciples. I've probably left some activities off, but I think you get the idea.

Many of us drop the activities that formerly got us into trouble, simply because we are focused on something besides ourselves after conversion. I heard a pastor describe this as "getting our want-to fixed", when one becomes a Christian and is filled with the Holy Spirit. There is a change that takes place, but it works itself into our lives over time, from the inside.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 6:21:28 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 28, 2012 6:24:31 PM PST
G. J. Stein says:
@ Jack Vix:

John 16: Jesus said:

8 And when He [the Holy Spirit] has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me...

>end<

The worlds sin is "unbelief" Jack. All other behavior flows from it, including religious crusades and serial killers.

Here's the simple Gospel in a nut-shell; The cross of Christ was a means to and end but not the end in itself.

The human condition has been spiritually dead to God since the fall in the garden.
God's intention was to bring us back to fellowship by restoring our spiritual life.

Four-thousand years of Jewish religion proved futile by design, we were born in sin and we died in it all the more. The blood of bulls and goats could not take away our trespasses. But the blood of an innocent man could.
That innocent man was Christ, who not only died in your place, but also declared the very Law of Moses that condemned you to death, be put away for good. Thereby making a New relationship possible, and putting the entire world on one level playing field to be judged.

And what is the judgment? See above. Did you believe unto life, or deny and remain dead?

Now, that's where the end part of the means to an end comes in.

What good would dying in your place be, only to have the OT Law of Moses condemn you again within minutes?
And, what good was forgiveness without Law, if your were still spiritually dead to God in the end?

The "end" was the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
Without this event none of the others would have effect. The Resurrection was a triumph over death, and hell.
The eternal life of Christ is now given to us free for the asking and cannot be taken away again by sin.
If we accept the gift of God through the Lord Jesus, we become permanent children of His.

1 Cor.15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  11
Total posts:  15
Initial post:  Dec 21, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 28, 2012

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