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The absurd Christian doctrine of atonement


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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 20, 2013 1:58:11 PM PST
Celsus says:
brunumb

Nice one.

Posted on Dec 26, 2012 9:41:34 PM PST
brunumb says:
Atonement, The Play.
Scene: Heaven. Jesus is centre stage. God is.....everywhere.

Jesus: "I remember the world you made being so beautiful. Why is it so awful now?"
God: "Adam and Eve disobeyed me and I punished them."

Jesus: "Wow. You didn't mess around, did you."
God: "It's what they call tough love."

Jesus: "But with all that sin everywhere how is anyone ever going to join us here in Heaven?"
God: "Don't worry. I have a plan. You are going down there to make things right."

Jesus: "That sounds like fun."
God: "Well, not all fun. You'll get to do some miracles and amaze the people, but then you'll have to die.

Jesus: "But I can't die."
God: "Yeah, I know. But it has to look that way. Actually, before I can get rid of this sin thing, people are going to have to murder you."

Jesus: "Say what!
God: "Relax. You'll be good as new in a couple of days."

Jesus: "But I thought that murder was one of your ten big no-nos."
God: "It's the only way I can think of that will allow me to forgive them for disobeying me in the first place."

Jesus: "Didn't you punish them enough with all of the pain, disease and death that you inflicted on them?"
God: "Yeah, but that doesn't keep them from going to Hell."

Jesus: "Why do they have to go to Hell?"
God: "That's my punishment for their sins."

Jesus: "Where did these sins come from?"
God: "They invented them when they disobeyed me."

Jesus: "Things are starting to sound a bit circular to me"
God: "Wash your mouth out! You're starting to sound like an atheist."

Jesus: "OK. So, my getting murdered keeps them from going to Hell."
God: "Well, not exactly. That's just a little pantomime. They have to believe that it actually happened, and then they don't go to Hell."

Jesus: "So I don't really have to go down there and get murdered after all?"
God: "Of course not silly. I'll just inspire some guy to write the whole thing down as if it really happened, and let people take it from there."

Jesus: "Gee. Thanks Dad. You really are so much smarter than Zeus."

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 9:06:05 PM PST
Harry Marks says:
Merry Christmas.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 9:03:47 PM PST
Harry Marks says:
IFeelFree -

I think atonement involves real acknowledgement of guilt, at least partial guilt. One can forgive to be able to move on, without any actual atonement. To invoke atonement is to acknowledge a serious breach.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 10:55:54 AM PST
IFeelFree says:
MLB: Ifeel, why don't I? Because of my selfishness to bask in self seeking. I am able to though, with His power, rely on Him who is able to keep us from falling, and pray that I may seek to cooperate with His grace, as we have received every spiritual blessing under Heaven.

IFF: Merry Christmas!

What is at the root of selfishness? Isn't it a fear -- perhaps unconscious -- that you won't get what you want? That what you really want is not the same as what God wants for you? This fear may arise because God is often depicted as someone who is inherently and forever separate from us, and so we lack what He has. What if God is not some distant abstraction, but is closer than your own self? God is the happiness you feel when you're in a very relaxed, peaceful state. He is the love that you feel toward others, and that others express toward you. Also, surrender to God is a dimension of love. It is letting go. You have to taste surrender, feel it. Then your selfishness will dissolve in the bliss of God's love.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2012 12:02:54 AM PST
Lew Archer says:
Merry Christmas, Matthew.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 6:33:46 PM PST
Ifeel, why don't I? Because of my selfishness to bask in self seeking. I am able to though, with His power, rely on Him who is able to keep us from falling, and pray that I may seek to cooperate with His grace, as we have received every spiritual blessing under Heaven. Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 3:23:48 PM PST
IFeelFree says:
MLB: ...we are able to, IF we cooperate with God's grace, as we have been given every spritual blessing under Heaven as paul affirms, PLUS, He has the power to keep us from falling as Jude says.

IFF: If you are able to, then why *don't* you cooperate with God's grace, and so refrain from committing sin? Having the potential to do something is wasted if you don't actually do it.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 3:06:17 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 24, 2012 3:06:43 PM PST
IFEEL, Never said that, (Please read the posts carefully), just that we are able to, IF we cooperate with God's grace, as we have been given every spritual blessing under Heaven as paul affirms, PLUS, He has the power to keep us from falling as Jude says. Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 3:02:11 PM PST
IFeelFree says:
MLB: Ifeel, Indeed, we all are, as we have been given every spiritual blessing under Heaven as paul affirms, and thus enables us to cooperate with Him Who has the power to keep us from falling.

IFF: Let me be sure that I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that you *never* sin anymore, because you are able to perfectly cooperate with God's grace (and that others are as well)? That's a pretty impressive claim. In short, you're saying that you never sin anymore.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 12:23:47 PM PST
Ifeel, Indeed, we all are, as we have been given every spiritual blessing under Heaven as paul affirms, and thus enables us to cooperate with Him Who has the power to keep us from falling. Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 10:41:38 AM PST
IFeelFree says:
MLB: IFeel, Indeed, By cooperating with His grace, He has the power to keep us from falling, (Jude vs.24).

IFF: Are you able to perfectly cooperate with His grace, so that you no longer "fall" or revert to sinful habits? What limits our ability to cooperate with His grace? Needn't we remove the blocks to such cooperation so that we spontaneously cooperate with His grace?

How do we remove the blocks to our cooperation with His grace? Through purifying spiritual practice, through meditation, through silent prayer, through total surrender, through forgiving others as we are forgiven.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 5:26:38 AM PST
Emotions can be very valuable too, though. It's not at all clear that an intelligent species devoid of emotion would have ever had the motivation to make all the discoveries in science and technology that humans have made.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 12:46:28 AM PST
Lew Archer says:
"We had to build on the ruins of the old brain...".

Was that the "sophisticated part" of your post?

Does using words like "sophisticated" make you feel "sophisticated"?

I bet it really makes your face red when you get carded at the bars you go to.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 24, 2012 12:41:54 AM PST
Lew Archer says:
Everyone who disagrees with me is not "...some inexperienced person...". But you clearly are.

"I know BS when I read it...". What you know is that you didn't like my post, so you decided to respond to it with something that you thought was "witty". Too bad for you that all you did was make yourself look like someone who had nothing to offer to the conversation except for insults.

Pearls to swine, young man.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 9:04:39 PM PST
Lao Tzu says:
Hi Lew, I would answer a bit for Newbomb.

Emotions are processed by the most primitve parts of the brain, barely more complicated than the autonomic nervous system.

The cerebral cortex, the most sophisticated part, is where our reasoning powers come from. Unfortunately we are not designed to be rational. We had to build on the ruins of the old brain, that is just how evolution works.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 9:01:27 PM PST
Lao Tzu says:
Newbomb Turk says: I've always felt that Christians would have a very hard time explaining their theology with using poetic, figurative or symbolic language. They know that if they use straightforward language it would sound idiotic.

Newbomb Turk, that is exactly my point. If much of the bible were written in plain scientific or rational language, all the holes in the argument would stand out. Everyone would be amazed to think they believed it.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 7:26:22 PM PST
Newbomb Turk says:
Lew: "What do you care?"

As I thought. You can't explain it.

Lew: "Run along!"

Yes, everyone who disagrees with you must be some inexperienced young person. I'm am neither, nor inexperienced. I know BS when I read it, and "to let my heart lead the way for me instead of my brain" might sounds nice, but it smells like fart in a car.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 6:57:00 PM PST
Lew Archer says:
Of course I've "ignored" your "questions".

What did you expect from a reply in which you attempted to belittle a point I was making?

Flowers and a "High-Five"?

"What action did I take...".

What do you care? So you can have another opportunity to degrade what I'm trying to share with others who are sincere in their desire to learn? Ever hear about not throwing your pearls to swine?

Run along!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 10:32:45 AM PST
Newbomb Turk says:
Lew: "Now then, how is it that you've managed to get through 16-20 years of life without being aware of what the phrase "LISTEN TO YOUR HEART" means? Please humor me with an answer, because I'm not sure that I've ever met someone who wasn't aware of the interpretation or at the very least wanted to pretend that they weren't (for the sake of what, I really don't know)."

Turk: So let me understand. You've ignored the many questions I asked you, instead choosing to pretend that I don't understand the metaphor. And then insult me by calling me a child.

Let me be as plain as possible. What action did you take, or how did you change your behavior when you decided "to let my heart lead the way for me instead of my brain"?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 6:50:51 AM PST
IFeel, Indeed, By cooperating with His grace, He has the power to keep us from falling, (Jude vs.24). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 6:09:44 AM PST
No doubt, but try to put my post in context.

Hint - You can do this by reading the post I was replying to.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 5:59:41 AM PST
Quoting Aristotle, eh? The last refuge of scoundrels, IMO........

Posted on Dec 23, 2012 5:57:42 AM PST
Alan says:
A splenetic person is a bad tempered and spiteful person.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 5:52:37 AM PST
The spleen is a very important part of the immune system. People without a spleen are at risk for devastating and lethal bacterial infections.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  32
Total posts:  283
Initial post:  Dec 7, 2012
Latest post:  Jan 20, 2013

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