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Revelation - its events have not yet begun


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Showing 1-25 of 81 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Dec 21, 2012 7:35:54 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
Good morning,

The common preaching on the Book of Revelation is flawed: every preacher and religion which sees fulfilment of its prophecies is at best mistaken, because the events of Revelation have not yet begun.

The first *earthy* event of the vision in Revelation occurs in chapter 5:13:

And I heard every creature that is in heaven **and on earth** and beneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying:

≺ To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the praise and the honour and the glory and the might forever and ever.
And the four living creatures [around the throne] said:

≺ Amen!
-- Revelation 5:13,14

This united cry from everyone on earth has not taken place.

All other events in the vision - the opening of the scroll, the trumpet blasts, the beasts, the Whore of Babylon, judgement, and even Armageddon itself - occur sometime *after* this united cry of appreciation to Almighty God and His Christ.

Some truly great event must prompt that united appreciation of the disparate believers and non-believers on the earth.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 21, 2012 1:28:05 PM PST
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Posted on Dec 26, 2012 6:16:12 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
The fact that Revelation begins with a world-wide appreciation seems to have been overlooked by the church. It shows that the next era begins in a positive manner - despite the terrible events which Revelation describes as following it. Whatever happens thereafter, it is popular at its beginning.

It shows also that there is no "route to salvation" in terms of religion: that "world-wide appreciation" includes everyone, of every faith and none. No religion can make non-believers give thanks to God, so it has to be some event which will make even the non-believers grateful to Him - whilst also showing, at that time, that He exists.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 26, 2012 8:30:28 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Acts5v29 says:

[The common preaching on the Book of Revelation is flawed: every preacher and religion which sees fulfilment of its prophecies is at best mistaken, because the events of Revelation have not yet begun.]

That depends. The period of tribulation spoken of in Revelation was probably the last 2,000 years at least if not longer.

Wars. Famines. Plagues. All of those things have happened many times over the last 2,000 years and those experiences have been written on our souls.

Armageddon isn't a physical place I don't think. Armageddon is within all of us. That's where the titanic struggle between good and evil occurs.

That was Edgar Cayce's take on Revelation anyway. Cayce related the story to the human body like the 24 elders correspond to the 12 pairs of cranial nerves in the brain.

Still Cayce felt that the scriptures can have a spiritual, metaphysical, and literal interpretation and he didn't rule out the possibility that Revelation is talking about real events.

The abomination the singer Madonna is I believe the anti Christ. So that much has come true anyway. She's some sort of evil or profane spirit in human form. A demon perhaps who knows.

I heard John John Kennedy had been messing around with the anti Christ for awhile. After one of their liasons she wrapped John John up in plastic wrap which is I guess how they found what was left of him on the beach.

Every generation needs a Kennedy conspiracy.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2012 4:12:50 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
Good morning Jeff,

I think that is finely the point: the *first* event is a unanimous cry of appreciation to God and His Christ - this has never happened before. Whilst we have had famines and plagues and wars forever, all of the other events in the vision occur after that cry of appreciation. So the question is: what brings that about?

Posted on Dec 27, 2012 4:35:03 AM PST
Kevin Bold says:
People interested in the End Times should read these books, as fundamentalism has muddled the "common knowledge":

Rapture: The End-Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind

The Last Days of Dispensationalism: A Scholarly Critique of Popular Misconceptions

Coming Soon: Unlocking the Book of Revelation and Applying Its Lessons Today

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2012 6:24:48 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
I had a Catholic priest tell me last year that he feels Revelation should not have been included in the bible.

This priest is a great guy but I disagree with him. Revelation is true I believe.

Some people think Christ's apostle John wrote the Book Of Revelation while in exile on the island of Patmos. I agree with this because Edgar Cayce confirmed it.

There's the Rapture that people talk about, a 1,000 period of peace on Earth, then Satan is let loose for a season and the world actually ends. That's sort of a specific prediction.

I believe the Great Pyramid predicts when the human race will end and other important historical events and time periods. This is all indicated in the pyramid's construction with the way the pathways inside the pyramid turn, the different colors of stones on the walls, and most likely other things I'm not aware of.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2012 6:25:39 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Kevin Bold says:

[People interested in the End Times should read these books, as fundamentalism has muddled the "common knowledge"]

What do those books say about Revelation its misinterpretation ?

Jeff Marzano

Posted on Jan 1, 2013 2:00:48 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
Imagine if this had been continued in Christian teachings, rather than left behind: churches would not have taught that Armageddon is the next big event, nor that God is to return with a sudden slaughter. Christianity would have been very simple, taught as a thing of beauty with no threat inherent in its teachings - just as Jesus taught. Christians would have been taught simply to wait for that event - a passive race without the street-corner hell-fire rhetoric, without the self-assurance mixed with quiet seething anticipation of death for those who disagreed with them. Christians would look at non-Christians with a wisdom that said: "You'll see, and you'll be delightedly surprised!" rather than - as some have voiced it - "Armageddon is going to get you".

Doesn't that sound more like Christ's way?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 4:59:19 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 1, 2013 7:16:18 AM PST
>>I think that is finely the point: the *first* event is a unanimous cry of appreciation to God and His Christ - this has never happened before. Whilst we have had famines and plagues and wars forever, all of the other events in the vision occur after that cry of appreciation. So the question is: what brings that about? <<

Still waiting.

I would appreciate it if you could explain from your understanding why the process would be taking the length of time it is.

I would think now is as good a time as any.

After all:

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew16:28

But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Luke 9:27

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 5:01:15 AM PST
>>Doesn't that sound more like Christ's way?<<

But then the Revelator came.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 5:13:59 AM PST
"And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."
Matthew 24:22
English standard version

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 5:39:43 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
Good afternoon Buck,

===
I would appreciate it if you could expalin from your understanding why the process would be taking the length of time it is.
===

Indeed... what was there to prevent the Christ arriving 200 years ago, say?

The reason there has been this long pause is that we are waiting for the great theme of the Bible to be proved: where God Himself prophecised in Genesis that Mankind could not survive independent of Him. Only now with the consequences of the climate crisis are we witnessing the proof of that. God is waiting for the Prodigal Son Mankind to realise, and call to Him in a special way, and He will rush to catch us en masse before we fall - and His son will ease the climate crisis. This is why all on earth - the good and the bad, the believer and the atheist - will be appreciative of God and His Son for their rescue of us all.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 5:45:55 AM PST
But as you see from the passages posted, I interpret that this was meant to happen within the lifetime of the people who these passages were directed at.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 6:02:53 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
Good afternoon Buck,

And this is the quandry: the world has never been united in appreciation for God and His Christ, yet Matthew 24 and Luke 21 (and others) are preached as they are...

Both of those gospel accounts refer to the fall of the nation of Israel - culminating with Masada. The 1st century Christians ministry - as evidenced from the NT letters - was to convince all Jews they could (amny of whom actively wanted their death) to heed Christ's warning - and thereby heed the Christ - in order to flee Jerusalem when the "disgusting thing causing desolation" began surrounding it. Sadly, a great many clung to Jerusalem as the kingdom of God, and paid horribly with their lives. But with that fall, Jesus' disciples - those who survived until 65-70AD - saw the Kingdom of God coming in power, because Christ's prophecies in Matthew 24 and later on his way to Golgotha to the weeping women was proved true.

So those passages you cite did take place then, but Revelation did not, and we know this because.... the first event: the united earthly appreciation for God and His Christ - has not taken place.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 6:19:02 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 1, 2013 6:19:14 AM PST
It is obvious that it hasn't happened yet because it hasn't happened yet.

But Matthew16:28 says specifically (I believe) that people hearing those words would not die ".....till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom".

Not his church rising up but Himself in person.

Posted on Jan 1, 2013 6:38:29 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
Good afternoon Buck,

But didn't they see him, at his resurrection? And the power of that Kingdom over the one which fell, as Christ's words proved to the detriment of those who executed him.

Whichever way you look at it, Revelation has not begun, as you say. It can't have been fulfilled in the 1st century because Revelation was not written until long after Masada. John makes it clear by his words that he wasn't physically living in the Lord's day, that it was some future time; it certainly wasn't 20 years earlier when Rome invaded.

So this brings us back - as you asked - to the event which will cause that unanimous appreciation: a rescue from the proof of God's Own prophecy, the first ever, made in Genesis.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 6:45:40 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 1, 2013 6:49:21 AM PST
Hi Acts.

I'm getting a bit bamboozled here.

First:
>>But with that fall, Jesus' disciples - those who survived until 65-70AD - saw the Kingdom of God coming in power,.....<<

Then:
>>But didn't they see him, at his resurrection?<<

I'm not quite sure which angle you're coming from here.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 6:48:53 AM PST
>>John makes it clear by his words that he wasn't physically living in the Lord's day, that it was some future time; it certainly wasn't 20 years earlier when Rome invaded.<<

From my understanding the "Whore of Babylon" represents Rome.

Do you have another understanding?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 6:49:56 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
Good afternoon Buck,

The difficulty is in trying to merge the notion that the 1st earthly event in revelation has not yet taken place, with your contention that it all took place in the 1st century. If you acknowledge the truth of the first - as you say, because it hasn't happened yet - then there is no need to try to explain further: it didn't happen in the 1st century. The first century events are quite a seperate item from the event which sparks Revelation.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 6:52:20 AM PST
But from my understanding you are taking prophecies from the Revelator and applying them to this age. Is this an accurate assumption?

Posted on Jan 1, 2013 6:55:47 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
I am stating that the events of the vision of the Book of Revelation have not yet begun, and that there is someting in our era which will make it all begin. Whatever events lie in that vision are waiting for us in our future, not our past.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 7:08:08 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 1, 2013 7:08:50 AM PST
I ask you these questions out of curiosity.

The whole notion of "The end of days" fascinates me and I have never actually had any kind of opportunity to have a discussion with an end timer.

I thank you and I appreciate your indulgence and patience.

I hope I am not being indelicate but do you await the rapture?

Posted on Jan 1, 2013 7:14:33 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 1, 2013 7:43:56 AM PST
Acts5v29 says:
Hello Buck,

no offense taken at-all, and it is nice to talk with you.

As for the rapture, I'm afraid I don't give such things any thought, nor what will happen to me after death. The "end times" has always been preached as terrifying, but we know now that it isn't; its a rescue. We're in a very special time - the last time we can show faith, before God's intervention makes that faith a thing of the past - so I'm concerned with doing all I can to help His reputation shine as the benevolent thing it is, the kind thing, and take away fears for the future.

If you want, you can find an explanation of this topic in PDF at www.worshipJehovah.org/divineRescue.asp (not watchtower or any religion) in a range of languages, and on Kindle if you want a Kindle version.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 7:18:31 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 1, 2013 7:20:26 AM PST
OK. Got it. Thanks.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  11
Total posts:  81
Initial post:  Dec 21, 2012
Latest post:  Jan 11, 2013

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