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Israel, God's judgments and the last days in which we are living; Part Six

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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:39:37 PM PST
Allan says:
As I keep trying to tell you, Cheri, NEVER take anything on face value.

Was it a Christian site?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:39:54 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Linda Sang,
There will be a Tribulation and the wrath of God. All Christians alive at that time will go thru the Tribulation and those who are faithful until then end will be protected from the wrath of God. The Antichrist will be against Christians and will instigate the 'mark of the beast' which a person will need to buy or sell. Christians who remain true to the Lord will not take it and will not be able to buy food. Many Christians will die during the Tribulation but not all.

Unbelievers will probably do well in the Tribulation, that is, until the wrath of God starts during the last part of the Tribulation. Then if you have taken the mark watch out.
exp

Posted on Jan 21, 2013 8:40:12 PM PST
Tinker says:
{I had posted this on the other thread but hadn't realized we were so close to the end. Thought I would repost it here.}

From a post a friend of mine sent me about the seven years of tribulation. It comes from a compilation of verses.

------------

Dan 8:
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice,
and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel operated under the lunar calendar of 12 periods of 30 days, totaling 360 days per year, with a leap month every 7 years. Thus 360 days time 7 years, plus
one leap month totals 2,550 days. Many say the additional 250 days not mentioned in verse 14 can be accounted for by the time to rebuild the temple. Even with
the straight 2,300 days given in Dan 8 we are far beyond the 3 1/2 years you say is the tribulation, which most believe is the time for the GREAT Tribulation.

From Dan 9:24-26 I believe we can see that the seventy weeks spoken of represents seventy weeks of years.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation
for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be
seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and
the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Now we have a seven year covenant made by the abomination.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Dan 12:11-12 backs up the seven year covenant as it gives the time from the midst of the week until the end to be 3 1/2 years.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred
and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Mat 24:14-15 defines the ending of the above.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

The previous points to the one making the covenant as the anti-Christ and the covenant period ends with the Lord's return to bind satan.

Ok, all that said can we point to when the covenant starts?
2 Thes 2:3-12 gives us the answer.
First the He who now letteth is the Holy Spirit IMO, others say it's the Church. Either way, the taking out of either (can't take one without the other Heb 13:15) is the rapture.
Second we see that we are speaking about the anti-Christ.
Third vs 9 shows us his lying, starting with his breaking the covenant.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Rev 4 shows us that the rapture vs 1 comes before the tribulation starts in Rev 6:1
Re 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said,
Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

When taken in total I think we see that the 70th week starts with the rapture and ends with the second coming of the Lord and that the period is seven years.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:40:40 PM PST
Tinker says:
It always seems to catch me by surprise, not sure why.

Posted on Jan 21, 2013 8:40:50 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 22, 2013 7:54:08 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:40:59 PM PST
Allan says:
Don't remember off-hand, mrs exp, but am having lunch so will look for it now.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:41:26 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 21, 2013 8:45:13 PM PST
Tinker says:
I don't think so, it was just talking about what it meant. I googled it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:41:45 PM PST
uh huh

but what does it mean

who are those symbols in reality

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:42:02 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Cheri,
Hi. I'm not sure if we believe the same about the Rapture, but we all know that the end will come. And I personally don't think it will be that far in the future.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:42:57 PM PST
Allan says:
Cheri says: None of us are 'cheering it on'. We don't want anyone to go through it which is why we post here.

Allan: Having failed dismally over the past four years, Cheri, don't you think it is well past time for you to change your tactics?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:43:27 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Allan,
I will be looking forward to your answer.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:44:31 PM PST
Tinker says:
Things will seem great until halfway through when satan indwells the Antichrist. Christians will have to develop some sort if underground to buy and seek goods, it will be very difficult for any who accept Christ during this time.

Just as now more gentiles than Jews accept Christ, then more Jews than gentiles will become believers. There will be a tremendous revival sweep Israel.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:48:39 PM PST
Tinker says:
We agree on God coming soon.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:49:12 PM PST
Tinker says:
They aren't mine. God gave the plan.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:52:36 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Cheri,
That is right we agree that He is coming soon.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 8:52:39 PM PST
OSAS says:
Amen mrs exp, I agree, we need to be looking up!

Posted on Jan 21, 2013 8:56:18 PM PST
OSAS says:
The Fire of Hell

"And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." (James 3:6)

The word for "hell" in this verse is gehenna, and this is the only one of its eleven occurrences in the New Testament that is not a direct quote from the lips of Christ. Since the tongue is not a literal fire and since its misuse can in effect make it a "world of iniquity," this passage suggests that hell itself is the ultimate world of iniquity which has made the uncontrolled tongue an extension of itself.

The Bible speaks of this future hell as a place of "everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41). However, if these were fires such as we have here on earth, it is difficult to see how, as Jesus said, God will "destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28). Fire would destroy the body, but what about the soul?

The fire of hell may include some kind of spiritual fire or environment whose destructive nature can only be characterized by the metaphor of fire. The "lake of fire" cannot be on earth, of course, because the Beast, the False Prophet, and Satan will all be sent there before the disintegration of earth in its present form, whereas all lost human souls will be sent there after that event (Revelation 19:20; 20:10-11, 15). The awful lake probably is somewhere far out in the "outer darkness" (Matthew 25:30; Jude 13).

And it will be "a world of iniquity" where "he that is unjust |will| be unjust still: and he which is filthy |will| be filthy still" (Revelation 22:11). Those who have opted not to be with Christ will be given their chosen status forever. That means no light, no peace, no rest, no joy, nothing at all associated with the Lord. One should certainly "flee from the wrath to come" (Matthew 3:7) while he can. [HMM www.icr.org]

Posted on Jan 21, 2013 8:59:04 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 22, 2013 7:54:25 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 9:12:40 PM PST
Allan says:
I really need you here more often to keep me on my toes, mrs exp. I should have been able to work this out myself without going back to Asimov.

The ''statue''' of course is a metaphor for the successive empires which ruled Judah. By the time Daniel* wrote his bit, the Seleucids and the weak Ptolemies were in charge, and the stone which finally ended foreign rule was of course Judah (leading into the Maccabees).

*Daniel did not exist, of course. The author took the name of a folklore legendary hero noted for his wisdom, common practice for many of the Bible authors and prophets.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 9:13:53 PM PST
Allan says:
Cheri says: I don't think so, it was just talking about what it meant. I googled it.

Allan: Be easy enough to check, surely?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 9:15:42 PM PST
Allan says:
Cheri says: They aren't mine.

Allan: Indeed they are. Exclusive to the posse.

''God gave the plan.''

God would not have a bar of what the posses spouts here.

None of it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 9:22:41 PM PST
Allan,
God would not have a bar of what the posses spouts here.
------------
This looks like an idiom, if so can you help me with it a bit?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 9:25:55 PM PST
Allan says:
KNEW IT!! Ha, ha.

Couldn't even get past the second page, could they.

T. D. Mills says: The Fire of Hell...tongue is a fire... a world of iniquity... defileth the whole body... setteth on fire the course of nature... fire of hell...future hell...everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels... God will "destroy both soul and body in hell...Fire would destroy the body...fire of hell...destructive nature..."lake of fire"...Beast... False Prophet...Satan...disintegration of earth... all lost human souls will be sent there...awful lake... "outer darkness"...a world of iniquity... unjust...filthy ...filthy still ...no light...no peace...no rest... no joy...flee from the wrath to come.

Every word from the ID/Creationist rip-off merchants whose hypnotic control totally dominates TDM.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 9:28:15 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 22, 2013 7:54:33 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2013 9:30:33 PM PST
Linda Sang says:
MRS. EXP: There will be a Tribulation and the wrath of God. All Christians alive at that time will go thru the Tribulation and those who are faithful until then end will be protected from the wrath of God.

LINDA: Well, at least you don't believe in this "Pre-Trib Rapture" nonsense like some others here. I suppose I should be grateful for small favors.

MRS. EXP: The Antichrist will be against Christians and will instigate the 'mark of the beast' which a person will need to buy or sell. Christians who remain true to the Lord will not take it and will not be able to buy food. Many Christians will die during the Tribulation but not all.

LINDA: What makes you think so-called unbelievers and believers in other religions would tolerate the "Mark of the Beast" any more than Christians? It's now understood to be a kind implanted ID chip which would make it possible for the government to track you 24/7 no matter where you are. Am I right about that?

Legitimate protest and acts of civil disobedience are considered "terrorism" by the FBI and CIA and Homeland Security right now. Those who stand up for their First Amendment rights are for the most part "unbelievers" who don't place a high value on obedience, and NO value at all on obedience to unjust laws.

Any attempt to implement an invasive universal ID program such as that described as the "Mark of the Beast" would likely touch off the global revolution Allan was talking about in his earlier post. And the "unbelievers" like me and my neopagan activist daughter would be right on the front lines!
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Initial post:  Jan 21, 2013
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