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A challenge to Atheists (and Christians too for that matter)


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Showing 51-75 of 75 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Dec 26, 2012 10:50:31 PM PST
Buck Buckaw,

Agreed, but many times men especially still get in a elevator "to save face". Gavin points out no other "animal" would get in a cage where they were afraid of what/who was already in it!!!

"Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 26, 2012 10:56:31 PM PST
Be alert not alarmed.

The world need more lerts.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 26, 2012 11:02:18 PM PST
Buck Buckaw,

We had a guy with the last name of Wert, at work. We had a lot of those signs ;-)

Gavin's point was pay attention!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 26, 2012 11:08:38 PM PST
Yep, it's always a good idea to pay attention.

Anyone else here want to make fun of my fwiend Wodawick?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2012 7:33:41 AM PST
Big Shmooz says:
Big Shmooz: (quoting Scripture) [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known

Barton Paul Levenson says: Jesus never said that.

Me: Then you do not believe that jesus was claiming divnity for himself? (Most Christians believe that this is what jesus claimed)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2012 8:16:43 AM PST
BS: Then you do not believe that jesus was claiming divnity for himself?

BPL: Sure I do, but he was the God the Hebrews were already worshipping. There is only one.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2012 11:08:31 AM PST
mrs exp says:
Reed N D Dark,
I think people should get in touch with this inner sense that something is wrong. It could save their life.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2012 11:10:56 AM PST
mrs exp says:
Buck Buckaw,
And carried to far it can become paranoia, but there are times when to sense that something is not quite right, that something is wrong can save a life or life savings.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2012 9:06:53 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 27, 2012 9:08:09 PM PST
Big Shmooz says:
Barton Paul Levenson says: Sure I do, but he was the God the Hebrews were already worshipping. There is only one.

Me: That is completely untrue. Israel worshipped a God that cannot be seen. A God that neither sleeps nor slumbers. A God who said He is not a man. A God who is not born of a woman. jesus on the other hand was all those things. He was visable to all. He slept. He was a man. He was born of a woman.

Based on your admitted response that you believe jesus claimed divinity for himself, Deut. 13:2-6 warns us (Israel) not to follow such a person for he is there (using God's words)... "to lead you astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go".

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 1:08:36 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Big Shmooz,
Who is the 'angel of the Lord' who is later addressed as 'the Lord in Genesis 18?
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 1:13:34 PM PST
Heaven101 says:
Very smooth mrs. exp...

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 2:59:03 PM PST
BPL: Sure I do, but he was the God the Hebrews were already worshipping. There is only one.

BS: That is completely untrue.

BPL: Right, you're stating the Jewish position and I'm stating the Christian position, which is why you're Jewish and I'm Christian. This isn't something we can reconcile.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 3:27:17 PM PST
quert says:
<tokolosi links to the "I Lost (faith) and Found (reality)" thread>

Thanks for this link, tokolosi. I'd forgotten where the discussion of E Prime was and the topic's come up in another circumstance. Thx - needed it for referencing.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2012 7:59:11 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 29, 2012 8:04:19 PM PST
Big Shmooz says:
mrs exp says: Big Shmooz, Who is the 'angel of the Lord' who is later addressed as 'the Lord in Genesis 18?

Me: There is no angel addressed as the Lord in Genesis 18. This is a misunderstanding on your part. The Lord is the Lord, not an angel. The angels (3 of them) come to visit Abraham. This is something completely separate from God who also comes to Abraham.

For a proper understanding one needs to look at chapter 18 verse 1. God appears to Abraham in that verse. Now while God is there with Abraham, Abraham sees three men (angels) who are approaching. For some very odd reason most Christians twist the verses & have for their own agenda decided that verse 1 and verse 2 are actually one occurance when in fact this is clearly not so based on the simple context of the verse. In fact until I had spoke to a Christian the idea that the men & the Lord were the same idea was something that not only did I never hear, it would not have in my wildest dreams have occured to me to understand the verses in this fashion. It is a bogus understanding of the verses with no basis within the context.

Here are the actual verses...
1. Now the Lord appeared to him in the plains of Mamre, and he was sitting at the entrance of the tent when the day was hot.
Notice how God has already appeared to Abraham....

Now AFTER this appearance of God to Abraham the following occurs...
2. And he lifted his eyes and saw, and behold, three men were standing beside him, and he saw and he ran toward them from the entrance of the tent, and he prostrated himself to the ground.

Notice how Abraham runs towards them. They are not actually there yet with him. But God was there with him.

I hope that now you have a better understanding of the verses. :-)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2012 8:02:28 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 30, 2012 9:32:27 AM PST
Big Shmooz says:
BPL: Sure I do, but he was the God the Hebrews were already worshipping. There is only one.

Big Shmooz: That is completely untrue.

Barton Paul Levenson says: Right, you're stating the Jewish position and I'm stating the Christian position, which is why you're Jewish and I'm Christian.

Me: Ahh... but we are speaking here of what the Jews would perceive. After all Deut. 18 is stated by God for the Jews, and to the Jews jesus is a god we never knew.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2012 9:00:25 PM PST
Jim,
I think a reading of "How we believe" by Michael Shermer might give you some incite as to how we want to be part of visions and Godly appearances. What is most disconcerting to me is the over 250 million tourists who have made the pilgrimage to lourdes with less than 200 proven cures alledged. Is there not an obligation of the church to council pilgrims that in the histiry of the schrine, no one has grown back an arm, leg etc., and yet every day thousands crawl on missing limbs seeking an unwinable lottery. Could it be the millions of dollors that are dropped into the church coffers, that could easily be applied to the use of a scientific miracle called artificial limbs.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2012 9:00:25 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 29, 2012 9:14:36 PM PST
Jim,
I think a reading of "How we believe" by Michael Shermer might give you some incite as to how we want to be part of visions and Godly appearances. What is most disconcerting to me is the over 250 million tourists who have made the pilgrimage to lourdes with less than 200 proven cures alledged. Is there not an obligation of the church to council pilgrims that in the history of the schrine, no one has grown back an arm, leg etc., and yet every day thousands crawl on missing limbs seeking an unwinable lottery. Could the reason be the millioms of dollors dropped in the church coffers? Religious funds that could be
applied to the use of a scientific miracle called artificial limbs.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 12:49:53 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Big Shmooz,
I still wonder why there were three men who Abram fed and when they got to Sodom there were only two. And it seems one stayed back and talked with Abram.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 12:52:57 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Big Shmooz,
Who is God taking to in Gen 1:26 "Let 'us' make man in 'our image' and 1:27 God created man in his own image in the image of God he created him....
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 6:47:52 PM PST
Big Shmooz says:
mrs exp says: Big Shmooz, I still wonder why there were three men who Abram fed and when they got to Sodom there were only two. And it seems one stayed back and talked with Abram. exp

Me: One has to understand the way angels function in order to grasp what was going on. Each angel has a specific God given purpose from which he cannot vary. Nor do two angels perform the same mission.

The third angel (who was the angel Raphael) did not stay behind. He left because he had already fulfilled his mission. (He was there to heal Abraham who had just three days earlier circumcised himself. He did this & left)

The reason there were two in Sihdom was because one angel was given the mission to destroy the five cities & the other one was there to save Lot & his family.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 7:01:51 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 30, 2012 9:53:15 PM PST
Big Shmooz says:
mrs exp says: Big Shmooz, Who is God taking to in Gen 1:26 "Let 'us' make man in 'our image' and 1:27 God created man in his own image in the image of God he created him.... exp

Me: I am glad you included verse 27 as well in your question for it is the basis from which your question regarding verse 26 is answered.

God is speaking to His heavenly court. (a group of angels) What one needs to understand is the Torah is not there to be a history book. The Torah may in fact teach history at certain points but that is not It's purpose. With this in mind one can approach Scripture from a proper perspective. God was as always trying to teach a lesson that we may learn how to conduct ourselves. The lesson here is humility.

Whilst God has no equal yet He consulted with others before making a big decision so too we must learn from this that never should we look to ourselves & say "we are greater than those around us & so we have no need to take advice from others who are beneath us". For God who is the greatest of all yet He sought advice from others before making a decision, so too should we.

Now we come on to verse 27. There we see how God is utterly singular. For if God had really been a plural such as you are attempting to deduce from verse 26, then verse 27 would have needed to have said "& THEY made man in THEIR image". Yet in the actual creation which is what verse 27 is about, the verse reverts strictly to the singular. This shows all that God when He is speaking in the plural is not speaking to Himself but rather to others. This is so because only God has the power to create.

This same exact formula repeats itself in Genesis chapter 11 verses 7 and 8. There too God says "let us descend". But in the actual execution of judgement it again reverts to the singular. "And the Lord scattered them"

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 9:03:32 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Big Shmooz,
You are getting some of your information from other than the Old Testament. Where does that information come from?
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 9:05:14 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Big Shmooz,
I don't agree with you. I am made in the image of God, not in the image of the heavenly court.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 9:39:16 PM PST
Big Shmooz says:
mrs exp says: Big Shmooz, You are getting some of your information from other than the Old Testament. Where does that information come from?

Me: My information comes from Talmudic sources. The Talmud is there to explain the details of the the Tanach.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 9:46:49 PM PST
Big Shmooz says:
mrs exp says: Big Shmooz, I don't agree with you. I am made in the image of God, not in the image of the heavenly court.

Me: I would explain to you that you do not understand what the term image means. God has no image. The concept of image as you understand it is a physical term. God is not physical.

mrs exp says: not in the image of the heavenly court.

Me: You misread me. I had not said that man was created in the image of the heavenly council. (though in fact man is created in some aspect in a fashion of angels in the sense that the soul comes from above, in this man is likened to an angel) Keep in mind that verse 26 was only the thought process. Verse 27 is what actually occured.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  25
Total posts:  75
Initial post:  Dec 8, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 30, 2012

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