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Suicide of Jesus was against Jewish Law


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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 10:24:26 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 10, 2012 4:54:52 PM PST
FashionSense,
Somehow, the disturbances that Jesus created were such that the Roman authorities condemned him to be crucified.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 10:25:23 AM PST
G. J. Stein says:
Kevin Bold says: "What part of "Jesus got shafted" don't you get?'

Well put Kevin.
I think this topic was over before it began.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 10:34:25 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 10, 2012 1:59:09 PM PST
G. J. Stein says:
sahansdal: "...'and was put to death on a Roman cross, as history bears witness?' What 'history' would that be?"
Barton Paul Levenson: The gospels, Tacitus, Suetonius, Dio Cassius, Flavius Josephus, the letter of Mara bar-Serapion, etc., etc."

Thank you Barton.
But, this reply from them to an answer of their original simple question, just doesn't ring sincere; 'What history'???? LOL

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 10:37:50 AM PST
G. J. Stein says:
Tommy's Pest says: "So the early Christian martyrs were executed for what? Not spreading Christianity fast enough to satisfy the Romans? When it comes to making things up, you may be doing a pretty good job of ignoring history and inventing your own stories to explain away faith in Jesus Christ. Many books out there, esp. The Book...if you want true answers."

Amen and Amen brother Tommy. Get used to this kind of delusion coming our way. And notice, it's sadly coming from 'some' Jews
as well as atheists!!!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 10:39:08 AM PST
FashionSense says:
Domenico Rosa

Since when can the Roman authorities be trusted for being honest? The Roman authorities and the Pharisees made up their charges.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 10:40:36 AM PST
FashionSense says:
sahansdal

How convenient that they agree to a James and a John but no Jesus.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 10:46:49 AM PST
G. J. Stein says:
sahansdal says: "None of the Betrayal, Trial and Passion is believable, to me. I think it was all made up. And I am far from the only one to think so."

Glad you got to play us for a bit. I'm told the word of testimony is like a spiritual seed that
works the opposite of poison and can have an affect on you now or later.

So thanks for letting us share our witness of truth to you, in spite of your own poison.

Au Revoir

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 10:55:10 AM PST
Let's stick to the topic of discussion, shall we? Jesus didn't commit suicide. Would you willingly sacrifice your life for your child's to keep that child from harm? Would that be considered suicide? No, it wouldn't. It would be an act of love. Jesus is God the Son (fully God, fully man). He was born in order to die for the forgiveness of the world's sins. His was an act of love.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 10:56:45 AM PST
Don't plug your book anywhere other than the "Meet Our Authors" forum. Otherwise, you may find your post deleted.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 11:22:44 AM PST
G. J. Stein says:
Advent Lily says: "Let's stick to the topic of discussion, shall we? Jesus didn't commit suicide.
Would you willingly sacrifice your life for your child's to keep that child from harm? Would that
be considered suicide? No, it wouldn't. It would be an act of love. Jesus is God the Son
(fully God, fully man). He was born in order to die for the forgiveness of the world's sins. His
was an act of love."

Amen Advent Lily, keep swinging that mighty sword.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing
even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts
and intents of the heart.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 11:48:55 AM PST
Stein, you should read up on some early church history.

There was some minor persecution by the Romans in the very beginning, however as soon as the Romans officially adopted the religion they turned on the Jews and persecuted them and ostracized anyone who followed the beliefs of Judaism.

These people were called Judaizers and rules were made preventing any Christians from following any Jewish beliefs. The goal was to purge any remaining Jews or Jewish beliefs from the early church.

At that time in Rome there were many Jews and Jewish converts. That all came to an end around 300 AD. These are just some of the measures taken. These are rules promulgated by the early church.

===================================

The Synod of Elvira[18] of around 306 AD prohibited Christians from marrying, worshipping with, or publicly eating with Jews, Pagans and Heretics. See these laws below (16,49,50):

16. Heretics shall not be joined in marriage with Catholic girls unless they accept the Catholic faith. Catholic girls may not marry Jews or heretics, because they cannot find a unity when the faithful and the unfaithful are joined. Parents who allow this to happen shall not commune for five years.

49. Landlords are not to allow Jews to bless the crops they have received from God and for which they have offered thanks. Such an action would make our blessing invalid and meaningless. Anyone who continues this practice is to be expelled completely from the church.

50. If any cleric or layperson eats with Jews, he or she shall be kept from communion as a way of correction.

=================================

The Council of Laodicea of around 365 AD decreed these laws,

Canon 29 - Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Percival Translation[19]).

Canon 37 - It is not lawful to receive portions sent from the feasts of Jews or heretics, nor to feast together with them.

Canon 38 - It is not lawful to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety.
--------------------

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 12:27:38 PM PST
Mens Sana says:
Which doesn't mean that it was NOT a contrived story. Silly.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 12:31:41 PM PST
Mens Sana says:
That must mean that fifty million Catholics can be wrong also. Hey! It's YOUR argument.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 12:33:47 PM PST
Mens Sana says:
If you have proved "it" beyond all question, then your book should be cataloged in the appropriate section of every academic library in the world. ???

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 1:53:15 PM PST
RS: It became popular simply because the Romans spread it all over.

BPL: Rather than their own native religion. Strange.

RS: And, because they allowed people to keep their pre-existing beliefs, which is why you have Christmas trees and Easter Eggs, all pagan customs.

BPL: All Renaissance or later.

RS: Furthermore, with Paul leading the way all the former restrictions were lifted, so nobody had to follow any laws anymore. Then, add to this the most appealing part, you don't have to worry about your sins, you get an automatic ticket into heaven just by believing a story.

BPL: Right, like Jesus didn't say "Unless ye repent, ye will all likewise perish." And like James didn't say "Faith without works is dead."

RS: Then add a little bit of fear in the mix with claims of going to hell if you don't believe the story.

BPL: Check out Tibetan Buddhism some time for some really interesting Hells.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 1:54:42 PM PST
s: None of the Betrayal, Trial and Passion is believable, to me.

BPL: Wow, you must have a lot of experience of human behavior.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 1:55:24 PM PST
s: 'Judas' didn't EXIST.

BPL: I'm sure you were there to verify that.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 1:56:33 PM PST
s: Jesus never called himself the 'Son of God'.

BPL: He was nearly lynched three times for saying he was God. "Before Abraham was, I AM," for instance (John 8:58). That was one phrase you were never supposed to use without a predicate.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 1:57:49 PM PST
s: There is no reliable historical record of him ever having lived.

BPL: Ah, so let's dismiss the gospel writers, and Paul, James, Jude, the Hebrews author, Tacitus, Suetonius, Dio Cassius, Flavius Josephus, Mara bar-Serapion, etc., etc., etc. What a bunch of liars.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 1:58:20 PM PST
s: I prove it in my book, beyond question.

BPL: Ah, NOW we get the reason for the thread. I wondered.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 2:01:46 PM PST
RS: as soon as the Romans officially adopted the religion they turned on the Jews and persecuted them

BPL: I have news for you, RS. The Greco-Roman pagans also persecuted the Jews. Remember Antiochus Epiphanes? Claudius threw the Jews out of Rome after disturbances in the city, for that matter. Seneca was pretty unpleasant toward them, and let's not forget Masada. Anti-Semitism did not somehow start with Christianity.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 2:30:28 PM PST
Mens Sana says:
BPL: Rather than their own (Roman) native religion. Strange.

M_S: I'm curious. What "native" religion did the Romans have during the Christian period?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 2:39:34 PM PST
Mens Sana says:
Antiochus IV Epiphanes did not persecute the Jews for being Jewish. He persecuted them for being rebellious subject. John Hayes & Sara Mandell The Jewish People in Classical Antiquity: From Alexander to Bar Kochba.

Claudius did not throw the Jews out of the city because of their religion. As you said, there were "disturbances in the city."

Do you have a reference that indicates that Seneca was the official voice of the Roman government?

Masada was not a persecution of Jews for religious reasons. It was the last battle of a revolt against Roman authority.

Conclusion: You are an inept propagandist.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2012 3:08:56 PM PST
Exactly, there is a difference between persecuting people for actions they take against the state vs persecuting them for their religious beliefs.

Posted on Dec 10, 2012 4:11:40 PM PST
Persecuting people is bad. Period.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  44
Total posts:  1064
Initial post:  Dec 9, 2012
Latest post:  Oct 7, 2013

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