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All true Christians have a duty to back Obama's healthcare reforms.


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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 12:13:53 PM PST
Nancy Davison: There weren't really human rights before Jesus and there still are the LEAST human rights where the church is oppressed, marginalized, or forbidden (Stalin 1930's, Mao 1950's, Castro 1960's, various Asian, African, South American, and Middle Eastern dictatorships today.)

I am not against the old and sick of America getting some help. I am against the federal government handling it like a political football and bribe for their voters and donors. Jesus never asked His followers to help the poor by giving Caesar, Herod, or rabbis more gold coins.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 12:18:05 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Critic, your Jesus is said to have said, "render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's". So it's the perspective, the point of view that determines what belongs to what. I see the government as the best distributor of goods and services, and you, obviously, see "God" as the best distributor. Now how that latter part works is interesting to me, in the light of karma and reincarnation, which is determined by the individual soul. So are there three sources here, or only two? Hmmm.....

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 12:42:49 PM PST
Karma and reincarnation don't enter into it. Politicians always do what gives them and their friends power. The government is in a unique position to bribe and bully, as well as support all sorts of schemes with oppressive taxes or fake money. Government is corrupt, wasteful, inefficient, and incompetent and will destroy the people eventually if the people allow it. It's always better for a few citizens to lack than all 300 million lack. Any positives accomplished by tax dollars or deficit spending can be followed by equal or greater negatives. I think some on the left have their hearts in the right place but are unable or unwilling to look more than five feet down the road in front of them.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 12:58:49 PM PST
Lao Tzu says:
M.C. Williams, I hope some of my fellow posters here see a problem with the giant Christian Left, and not think that all the supernatural nuttiness comes from the Right.

Obamacare is a form of socialism. I will explain why.

Marx says: "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability." This is the essence and core of socialism.

To take money from one group (productive taxpayers) and give it to others (those who want medical care and cannot pay for it) is to give each according to their need (healthcare) and from each according to their ability (money from productive taxpayers). This is the heart of socialism.

Your next move is not to fight this argument you cannot win, but rather accept the fact that you are a card carrying socialist. Be proud of it, if you dare. Proclaim it from the hills. People have so little understanding of why it is evil, that only the stigma of the WORD remains, for effin sake!!

If you respond and fail to concede that point, I will consider that you are not discussing in good faith.

Secondly, it IS a political issue. You don't know what political means. Philosophically, Ethics is how I behave, what I want, etc. Philosophically, Politics is what rules should govern how I live and treat with other humans in society. Deciding what wealth should be transferred from whom to whom, for what purposes, is a political decision.

But I do believe you utterly, when you say anyone who claims to be a true Christian would surely embrace this. That is why I find both Christianity and socialism not just wrong, but evil.

Just as an extra bonus, notice this - when you claim the right to healthcare, you infringe on my right to property. Who has the primary claim to property, the one that produced/earned it? Or the one that merely wants it? You must answer this fundamental question for yourself.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 2:08:23 PM PST
Astrocat says:
Critic, karma and reincarnation always enter into it. They're not even the third leg of the stool, they're the first.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 3:03:30 PM PST
Sean,
If there were more people like you, the government wouldn't need to be in the welfare business.
Bless you, John.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 4:34:29 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2012 5:46:52 PM PST
A Customer says:
"But I do believe you utterly, when you say anyone who claims to be a true Christian would surely embrace this. That is why I find both Christianity and socialism not just wrong, but evil."

I was right behind you until you made that bone-headed statement. Lao, if you were at all observant you'd notice that almost all the people on this thread who hate that government power grab of health care known as "Obamacare" are Christians. It's usually your fellow travelers in the atheist camp that love both Obama and socialist policies in general. And they usually lecture the Christians that a "real Christian" would be with them. As if Christians need advice from atheists on what "real Christians" believe and should do.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 5:03:57 PM PST
MC Zaptone says:
Sean B, please tell me that's a joke . J.V just quoted someone else and I for one found it very profound, what the hell is offensive about it. I don't think an open forum needs to tip-toe around unnecessarily.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 5:12:06 PM PST
MC Zaptone says:
Kevin, "I'm not mixing anything up. You are." I don't think simply saying you right, I'm wrong, counts for anything. Would you elucidate, explain to me why my reasoning is factually wrong. I take it that you believe that 'modern social democracy is the same thing as the old Marxist doctrine. How can that possible be?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 5:21:59 PM PST
Kevin Bold says:
One can be a Christian without being a socialist.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 5:26:26 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2012 5:28:12 PM PST
A Customer says:
The majority are not. Whereas the majority of atheists are leftwing socialists who have an unending faith in mother government.

Hence Lao's remark was foolish.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 5:28:38 PM PST
MC Zaptone says:
Yeah, so what relevance does that have on the debate. Modern Socialism isn't the 'pinko under the bed that you seem to have been indoctrinated to think it is'. Many prominent Christians believe it is truer to God's wishes than the greed of Capitalism. The two aren't mutually exclusive nor devisive.

Posted on Nov 29, 2012 5:31:23 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2012 5:32:38 PM PST
MC Zaptone says:
Macheath wrote: "And the 'modern social democracies' such as Greece, Spain, Italy, and Ireland are taking a couple of more decades longer before they become bankrupted failed states."
I'd say that's total bunkum.............Greece, Spain, Italy and Ireland are all conservative Catholic countries and try to provide for the poor on that level not as overtly socialist countries. The reason they are suffering more than other European countries is that they still have a large peasant (as, in....a poor farmer of low social status who owns or rents a small piece of land for cultivation) population. These folk tend to live pretty much hand to mouth and as such don't use banks and very rarely pay their taxes. This makes the fallout from the Fannie Mae/ Freddie Mac and subsequent global recession much worse for those particular countries.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 5:37:40 PM PST
MC Zaptone says:
Lao Tzu, I am neither a socialist nor Christian. And I'm beginning to think not many people here know what either of them truly are.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 5:37:49 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2012 5:39:38 PM PST
A Customer says:
Do you read anything? You seem wholly clueless on the status of other countries. Greece is "Catholic"? Greece is historically Greek Orthodox, though for the last few generations the majority of the population has been becoming unreligious. You can say the same of Spain and Italy, they once were Catholic, now very few even go to church anymore. And if you think America's problems in the housin market caused the collapse of those socialist basket-cases I have a case of Kool-Aid for you.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 6:07:42 PM PST
M.C. Williams,

UK healthcare does not put people before money. They are like private businesses, they put money before people. How do you think the public healthcare is financed? By taking peoples money from them through taxes. The ability to tax is the ability to destroy, and you get heavily taxed for this stuff.

SCL

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 6:37:19 PM PST
DocMMV says:
No Christians that know God believe socialism is "truer to God's wishes" than Capitalism (with or without greed).

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 8:51:42 PM PST
"What shouldn't I post?

Profane or obscene, inflammatory or spiteful comments"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/forum/content/db-guidelines.html

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:03:21 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Philip J Allen,
Well, will wonders never cease.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:05:06 PM PST
mrs exp says:
JJB,
I'm a Christian. Give me a break. I care about the poor and Obama healthcare program.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:08:25 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Vicki,
Toche. You're right those are good laws. What was it you disliked about working for the welfare department?
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:13:58 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Vicki,
It will be wonderful to live in under a government where health and wealth will not be a problem, unfortunately we don't live their yet. So we have to help however we can.

You're a Christian I need some help. What do I do, as a Christian about a neighbor who does nothing but borrow and borrow?
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:19:39 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Joseph R Durika,
That's strange when I went to work in 1950 my insurance paid for doctors office visits and well as the other. And when I didn't have that insurance office calls were $5. And I was young and probably saw the doctor once a year.

But it's different today my doctor charges $190 for an office visit. If I was young and healthy I might be able to afford my one visit a year, but that's not the case, I'm old and see him more often plus the medications.

Joe: "Back then, people worked out with their doctors any inability to pay for care, usually in the form of a payment plan directly to the doctor. Or they went to family and friends for help in paying."

Me: And I'll just bet they loved having to do that and probably asking people who didn't have any more than they did.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:21:52 PM PST
mrs exp says:
Sean B,
I'm sure your are a very nice guy and you were happy you could help him. But there are aren't enough nice guy's around to help everyone. I don't see anyway around from getting government help.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:27:55 PM PST
mrs exp says:
mr critic,
I still say if we Christians had been doing our job of helping the poor and sick the government wouldn't have stepped in.
exp
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  68
Total posts:  984
Initial post:  Nov 28, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 16, 2013

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