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Does the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ prove that the doctrine of the Trinity is false?


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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 5:39:25 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 19, 2012 5:56:45 PM PST
Harold, God the Eternal Father, sent God the Eternal Son into the world to atone for sins, and by the power of God the Eternal Spirit, He became man. "Let US make man in OUR image.", (Genesis 1:26, Matthew 28;19,20). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Christ

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 5:42:21 PM PST
Rebecca:

Hi, nice to hear from you. You said: "The soul is eternal. So technically Jesus never really died spiritually."

I have to agree with you. The soul/spirit is eternal and the spirit of Jesus Christ continued to live after He suffered physical death (the separation of the spirit from the body). I believe that His physical body was in the tomb for three days, while He, as a spirit, went to the Spirit World, where all spirits go, and He preached His Gospel.

The Spirit World is made up of Paradise and the Spirit Prison. Concerning this spirit world, to the thief on the cross the Savior said:

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23: 42-43)

Paradise is not heaven, as many think, because Jesus Christ did not return to His Father in Heaven until after He conquered physical death three days later and was physically resurrected (physical body and spirit being reunited).

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20: 17)

The Apostle Peter tells us that Jesus Christ also went and preached His gospel to those in the spirit world.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:18-19)

It's interesting that Jesus Christ preached to the spirits of those who lived back in the days of Noah. Peter goes on to say:

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1Peter 4: 6)

I'm in full agreement with you that the spirit is eternal and will never become extinct like some churches believe.

Harold

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 6:54:37 PM PST
DoC BiC says:
Harold,
Long post, but you could have saved yourself the bother; that's not what I have been posting regarding Jesus at all, sorry. I did state that we should focus on the Tri-unity of God from a Spirit focus rather than from disparate spiritual and physical angles, but I did not promote the notion of Jesus having shed His resurrected body, and now residing at the right hand of the Father purely as Spirit. Instead, I mentioned the "glorified" body of Christ that ascended from this world into Heaven. I did state that no one witnessed what happened during His ascension after He disappeared into the clouds, so any statement regarding from that point on would be pure speculation. The next time we get a glimpse at Jesus is during Stephen's vision. And, even though Stephen doesn't provide us much of a description, it's quite obvious Stephen recognizes Him:

"But he, full of the Holy Spirit and controlled by Him, gazed into heaven and saw the glory (the splendor and majesty) of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand" (Acts 7:55)

The next time we get a glimpse into His appearance is during His encounter with Saul, on the road to Damascus. But unfortunately, Saul isn't of much help:

"Now as he traveled on, he came near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him," (Acts 9:3)

"And since I could not see because [of the dazzlingly glorious intensity] of the brightness of that light, I was led by the hand by those who were with me, and [thus] I arrived in Damascus." (Acts 22:11)

Then, there's John's prophetic vision recorded in Revelation. But, it isn't of much help either, since it was pure symbology in the image of a lamb (though he could tell the lamb had been wounded). Perhaps some theologians could extrapolate and surmise something in actual appearance from this, but I can't. Despite this, by what we know of Jesus' return depicted later in Revelation, indeed Jesus does more or less return in reverse of how He left.
There are several Old Testament depictions that many believe were pre-Messianic Heavenly visits, but they would have been visits of the Word of God in the image of man (excluding Ezekiel's vision) prior to the physical body of Jesus being developed in Mary's womb. Besides, they wouldn't provide much of a clue regarding what transpires while crossing the physical-spiritual dimensional barrier to prosper within the spiritual realm. Neither do the bonafide angel visitations to this world.
So, yes....a resurrected/ascended physical body into the clouds....after that pure speculation.
I suspect this is how God intends it to be...for now.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 6:56:36 PM PST
DoC BiC says:
Harold,
Spirit "prison"?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 7:18:20 PM PST
Doc, Yes, this Spiritual Prison is purgatory, where one is chastened by the Lord as to NOT be condemned, (1 Corinthians 11:32, Luke 12:47, James 2:13, (Galatians 3:7, Luke 16:24), (Romans 6:16, 1 Peter 4:18)), where their Spirits are MADE PERFECT by Divine chastening, (Hebrews 12:23,34) as those Spirits were in the prison "Who formerly disobyed", (1 Peter 3:19) as affirmed by Christ, (Matthew 18;3,35) since faith alone does not justify one before God, (James 2:24, Revelation 2:23, 1 Corinthians 3;15) as we must all STRIVE for that holiness without which no one can see the Lord, (Hebrews 12:14). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Christ

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 7:29:19 PM PST
DoC BiC says:
Matt,
Well, you & LDS added a Bible study to my holidays; thanks for the kickstart on the verses...Hmmm....I thought we had moved on beyond a "Purgatory" theory quite awhile ago...open minded, will review.
Thx

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 7:33:15 PM PST
Doc, Peace always to you. Paul speaks of this as well, where, after death, one's works are tested, good and bad, and eventually, after suffering loss, shall be saved as through a fire. (1 Corinthians 3:15, Matthew 12:36, Luke 6:37,38, Matthew 18;34,35), as we must all STRIVE for that holiness without which no one can see the Lord. (Hebrews 12:14). Augustine, Ambrose, John Chrysostom, and many other Church Fathers agree on this. Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Christ

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 8:30:43 PM PST
Hey Matthew:

How you doing? I think we are in agreement that there are three separate individuals in the Godhead.

But then we do part ways after that because if you are a Trinitarian and believe in the Trinity, you believe that the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are not three Gods, but are three persons who make up the one god.

As you know, I am LDS, and I believe that the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three separate Gods who are united and one in perfection, power, and purpose. The Father is a God, Jesus Christ is a God, and the Holy Ghost is a God.

Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are in perfect obedience to the Father and are therefore one with Him.

Who is the God of Jesus Christ??? Is it a group of three persons (Jesus being one of them)? Does that even make sense? Is Jesus is the god of Himself??? Or, is it His Father in Heaven, who is an individual God?

The Trinity believer cannot say that the Father is the God of Jesus Christ because they do not believe that the Father is a god, they believe that the Father is one of three persons, who are not three gods, who make up the one god.

This is another great evil of the Trinity doctrine; it is that the Trinity removes the individual Godhood of the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost and reduces them to mere persons. Unfortunately, this is what is being served up by the Trinity doctrine.

The God of Jesus Christ is not and cannot be the Trinity god. The God of Jesus Christ is an individual who is God the Father. The Father is an individual God. The God of Jesus Christ is not a group of three persons!!!

Three Gods who are one in perfection, power, and purpose will always and forever be greater and more powerful than three persons who are not three gods.

Harold

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 19, 2012 8:32:33 PM PST
the smooshing of 3 into 1 is a pagan practice soem pope stole

the bible clearly shows they are 3 distinct separate entities

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 7:39:06 PM PST
Harold, Yes, we disagree, for I believe in the one Triune God, God the Eternal Father, God the Eternal Son, and God the Eternal Spirit. "Let US make man in OUR image", (Genesis 1;26, Matthew 28:19). Peace always

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 11:02:57 PM PST
LDS don't assign the term Purgatory to Paradise or Spirit Prison.

We believe that those who die, depending on their lot in life, will wait in Heaven for the resurrection principally in one of two places, Paradise or Spirit Prison. Generally the more righteous await in Paradise and the lessor or un-righteous await in Spirit Prison.

Brother Niv

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 21, 2012 1:32:58 PM PST
DoC BiC says:
Ok Harold, Matt,
I'm now accepting of the phrase "spirit prison"....interestingly, and probably understandable of us all, I was familiar with the passage, but honestly I never focused on the use of the word "prison" in it...fascinating phrase, thank you for opening my eyes to it.
Matt,
I'm still not so accepting of this gap period of testing & refining between physical death and our arrival in Heaven and before the throne of God in joyous worship, and other glorious undertakings yet to be revealed,whether it be called "Paradise", Purgatory or even some of the other variations on the theme I've read from other religions' teachers. There is similarity between them, yet wide variance as well. But, I'm amiss to the scriptural justification for any of them.
The closest one to true justification is the "Paradise", because it is mentioned in the Bible on more than one occasion. However, the counterargument is that it was a holding point, most likely a level of Heaven, prior to Jesus' sacrifice, so that the Gospel could be preached to them, as with all the world past, present & future, and they could be given one final opportunity to cross the great divide. This is why you no longer find it mentioned in scripture regarding anything after His resurrection.

There are three periods of judgment after the resurrection mentioned in the New Testament, but none of them are undertaken in a "Paradise" or "spirit prison":

A. The ongoing daily judgement of our deeds and works throughout our lives in Christ, and the chastening and disciplining (molding & refining) that goes with them as we mature in the manifestation of God's righteousness in our lives:

Heb 12:11
For the time being no discipline brings joy, but seems grievous and painful; but afterwards it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it [a harvest of fruit which consists in righteousness-in conformity to God's will in purpose, thought, and action, resulting in right living and right standing with God].

1 Cor 11:32
But when we [fall short and] are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined and chastened, so that we may not [finally] be condemned [to eternal punishment along] with the world.

B. The Millenium undertaking:
Rev 20:4-5
4 Then I saw thrones, and sitting on them were those to whom authority to act as judges and to pass sentence was entrusted. Also I saw the souls of those who had been slain with axes [beheaded] for their witnessing to Jesus and [for preaching and testifying] for the Word of God, and who had refused to pay homage to the beast or his statue and had not accepted his mark or permitted it to be stamped on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived again and ruled with Christ (the Messiah) a thousand years.
5 The remainder of the dead were not restored to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

1 Cor 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is [already] laid, which is Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
12 But if anyone builds upon the Foundation, whether it be with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 The work of each [one] will become [plainly, openly] known (shown for what it is); for the day [of Christ] will disclose and declare it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test and critically appraise the character and worth of the work each person has done.
14 If the work which any person has built on this Foundation [any product of his efforts whatever] survives [this test], he will get his reward.
15 But if any person's work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.

Luke 6:37-38
Judge not [neither pronouncing judgment nor subjecting to censure], and you will not be judged; do not condemn and pronounce guilty, and you will not be condemned and pronounced guilty; acquit and forgive and [ab]release (give up resentment, let it drop), and you will be acquitted and forgiven and [ac]released.
38 Give, and [gifts] will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will they pour [ad]into [the pouch formed by] the bosom [of your robe and used as a bag]. For with the measure you deal out [with the measure you use when you confer benefits on others], it will be measured back to you.

Matthew 18:34
35 So also My heavenly Father will deal with every one of you if you do not freely forgive your brother from your heart his offenses.

And,
C. The final judgment in and of this world:

Rev 20:7; 11-13
7 And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his place of confinement,....

11 Then I saw a great white throne and the One Who was seated upon it, from Whose presence and from the sight of Whose face earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 I [also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done [[b]their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books.
13 And the sea delivered up the dead who were in it, death and Hades ([c]the state of death or disembodied existence) surrendered the dead in them, and all were tried and their cases determined by what they had done [according to their motives, aims, and works].

Matt 12:36-37
36 But I tell you, on the day of judgment men will have to give account for every [s]idle (inoperative, nonworking) word they speak.
37 For by your words you will be justified and acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned and sentenced.

Hebrews 12:14
Strive to live in peace with everybody and pursue that consecration and holiness without which no one will [ever] see the Lord.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 21, 2012 6:52:30 PM PST
DoC BiC's post:
However, the counterargument is that it was a holding point, most likely a level of Heaven, prior to Jesus' sacrifice, so that the Gospel could be preached to them, as with all the world past, present & future, and they could be given one final opportunity to cross the great divide.
===============================
Bingo! LDS believe that those who do not have an opportunity to accept the Gospel and Jesus Christ in this life, get that opportunity in the here after. In Paradise or Spirit Prison, depending on ones departure situation.

You might find modern revelation given LDS on this subject of interest.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/138?lang=eng

Yours in Christ,

Brother Niv

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 21, 2012 6:55:35 PM PST
Doc:

Thanks for clarifying that for me. You said: "I did state that we should focus on the Tri-unity of God from a Spirit focus rather than from disparate spiritual and physical angles, but I did not promote the notion of Jesus having shed His resurrected body, and now residing at the right hand of the Father purely as Spirit." End Quote.

Can I share something with you? If we just focus on the Spirit and not the physical we really miss out on some very valuable information concerning the nature of the Godhead. The physical resurrection teaches us so much about God.

We know that we can anchor our FAITH on the fact that Jesus Christ has a physical resurrected body of flesh and bones in heaven today!!!

What does a physical resurrected Jesus Christ teach us about the nature of the Godhead??? Did you know that the nature of the Godhead is correlated to and determined by the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ???

The physical resurrection of Jesus Christ forever changed the nature of the Godhead. Indeed, the birth and death of Jesus Christ changed the nature of the Godhead. But, His physical resurrection changed it forever. Let me explain...

There are three members of the Godhead; the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

Before Jesus Christ was born He lived as a spirit in heaven. The Father is a spirit or a spirit in a body of flesh and bones, and the Holy Ghost is a spirit.

When Jesus Christ was born on Christmas day He gained a physical body. The nature of the Godhead changed at that moment, with the added physical body, and remained changed for thirty three years.

When the Savior died on the cross and His spirit separated from His physical earth body. The nature of the Godhead changed again. Jesus Christ is now a spirit again and His body is in the tomb. The Father and the Holy Ghost remain the same.

Three days later on Easter morning the spirit of Jesus Christ is reunited with His physical body with the prints of the nails in His hands and feet. This is what His apostles saw. Because He will never, ever die again (Romans 6: 9-19), He will live forever with a physical body of flesh and bones.

Because of His physical resurrection, the nature of the Godhead changed forever. It will never, ever be the same again. His physical body will forever be a part of the Christian Godhead. He is immortal; body and spirit will never separate again.

The physical resurrection of Jesus Christ gives us a key to discernment. It's a sword that can cut through false doctrine. It is a granite mountain and the erroneous philosophies of men fly into it like birds, and fall to the ground.

We can depend on the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ to lead us safely through the doctrinal reefs of man, and down the path of truth!!!

This is why I don't believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, which says that God is a spirit and is made up of three persons; one or two of them with physical bodies of flesh and bones.

How can God be a spirit without a body when there are one or two physical bodies present, unless Jesus Christ died a second time??? We know that He will never die again.

For me personally, I'm LDS and we believe that the Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones as tangible as man's.

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us. (Doctrine and Covenants 130: 22).

Harold

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 21, 2012 8:23:13 PM PST
DoC, Faith alone does not justify one before God, (James 2:24, Revelation 2:23, 1 Corinthians 13:2) and thus, Purgatory is the Divine Temporary prison after death, (Matthew 18:34,35, 1 Peter 3:19, "Who formerly disobeyed"), and where one is CHASTENED when judged by the Lord as to NOT be condemned, (1 Corinthians 11:32, Luke 12;47, (Galatians 3:7, Luke 16:24), (Romans 6:16, 1 Peter 4;18), James 2:13) as we shall each be held accountable for every careless word that we utter, (Matthew 12:36, Luke 6:37,38) and which our spirits are made perfect, (Hebrews 12:23,24), unless of course we have atoned for the temporal punishment due our sins while still hear on earth, "Break off your SINS by practicing righteousness and your iniquities by showing mercy to the oppressed.", (Daniel 4:27), "Love one another, for love covers a multitude of SINS.", (1 Peter 4:8, Luke 11:41, Proverbs 16:6), as we must all STRIVE for that holiness without which no one can see the Lord. (Hebrews 12;14). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 21, 2012 10:04:25 PM PST
Wow, I also want to thank you for this Bible study, and especially for pointing out Rev 20:4

4 And I saw thrones (with an "S"), and they (12 Apostles) sat upon them, and judgment was GIVEN unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/rev/20?lang=eng

Your find ties wonderfully with the following....

29 And I appoint unto you (12 Apostles) a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/luke/22.30?lang=eng#29

Way cool...

Brother Niv

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 10:57:47 AM PST
DoC BiC says:
LDS: "LDS believe that those who do not have an opportunity to accept the Gospel and Jesus Christ in this life, get that opportunity in the here after. In Paradise or Spirit Prison, depending on ones departure situation."

Bro Niv,
Interesting concept; it sure helps ease one's mind regarding those that leave this world prior to hearing the Gospel, something that does concern me.
Also, it provides further and deeper contemplation regarding a spiritual realm and its destiny. Even though it isn't wrongful thinking to believe a spiritual realm can be created, then dissolved by its Creator (God) when its usefulness has expired*, such a thought as this concept provides a rationale for a longer persistence of such a realm beyond the resurrection.
Thx for the mental/spiritual thought stimulation in that regard.

* - Rev 20:14 Then "death" and "Hades" ([d]the state of death or disembodied existence) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 11:16:15 AM PST
DoC BiC says:
Harold,
Nice "mini" treatise on the physical aspect of God, it does take it to another level, somewhat helpful, somewhat confusing. But, with the framework of the concept, you will always be confronted with:

John 4:24 (AMP)
God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).

As well as:
Exod 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Since we have covered this before, I won't reiterate any of it or prolong that discussion. Let's reengage and compare notes after God finally reveals the full mystery to us.

Meanwhile, in writing you may want to include an accounting of "glorification" of the physical body, and the pre-Messianic recurring engagements of the Word in the world in temporary and varied physical forms.
Thx Harold

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 11:36:31 AM PST
DoC BiC says:
Matt,
Quite true that faith alone does not "justify" one before God. For, even though initial faith leads us to an elementary spiritual awareness of reality and the most important decision of our lives, and even though persistent and growing faith is essential to journey towards perfection, the gifts of salvation and righteousness, as a result of Jesus' sacrifice/atonement are crucial in God's magnificent work of mercy and grace in our lives, in bringing us into that exalted state of justification before God. So, "yes" to faith, as long as there is also a "yes" to "salvation" and "righteousness":

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we are justified ([a]acquitted, declared righteous, and given a right standing with God) through faith, let us [grasp the fact that we] have [the peace of reconciliation to hold and to [b]enjoy] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

Rom 5:9
Therefore, since we are now justified ([f]acquitted, made righteous, and brought into right relationship with God) by Christ's blood, how much more [certain is it that] we shall be saved by Him from the indignation and wrath of God.

Rom 5:17
For if because of one man's trespass (lapse, offense) death reigned through that one, much more surely will those who receive [God's] overflowing grace (unmerited favor) and the free gift of righteousness [putting them into right standing with Himself] reign as kings in life through the one Man Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

All of this (including the verses you provided) takes place during our lifetime of spiritual progression towards ever-increasing manifestations of righteousness, towards the prize. Even though Christ is perfect in us, there is the perfecting of the saints in Him.
Thx.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 11:37:46 AM PST
DoC BiC says:
Especially cool!
Glad I yielded enough to allow the Holy Spirit to provide revelation for you.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 10:00:23 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 22, 2012 10:12:00 PM PST
Hi Doc:

John 4:24 is a very interesting and revealing scripture:

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4: 22-24)

When Jesus said "God is a spirit", who was He talking about??? Does this scripture support the Trinity doctrine of God??? Not in the least.

This scripture does not support the doctrine of the Trinity which teaches that there is one spirit God who is made up of three persons who are not three Gods; the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

It can't be the Trinity God because Jesus Christ is speaking these words in His physical body, and He is one of the three persons that make up the Trinity spirit God.

It also can't be the "Father" in the Trinity concept of God, because the Father is not considered to be a God, but is one of three persons who make up the one spirit god.

If anything, this scripture shows the flaws and errors of the doctrine of the Trinity God, but not the doctrine that there are three Gods in the Godhead.

In this scripture Jesus says that we need to worship God "in spirit and truth." Did Jesus leave His physical body and become a spirit in order to worship God? Do our spirits leave our physical bodies in order to worship God??? No we don't, nor did Jesus.

But Christ did worship His Heavenly Father, who as an individual is a GOD. The God of Jesus Christ is an individual God, His and our Father in Heaven. The God of Jesus Christ is not a group of three persons.

The INDIVIDUAL GODHOOD of the FATHER proves the doctrine of the Trinity to be wrong.

We cannot take away from the individual Godhood of Jesus Christ either because He is also perfect because He was 100% obedient to the Father and is united and one with the Father. Under the directions of the Father Jesus Christ created the heavens and the earth and did everything that He did on earth and now in heaven.

Three Gods, the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, who are one in perfection, power, and purpose will always and forever be greater than three persons who are not three Gods. Besides, how can three persons be perfect if they are not three Gods?

The Father is a spirit as Jesus is a spirit.

Harold

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 6:23:39 AM PST
DoC, Indeed, since faith alone does not justify one before God, (James 2:24, 1 Corinthians 13:2), as we shall each recieve as our works deserve, (Revelation 2:23, 2 Corinthians 5:10), and after death some shall suffer loss first, (1 Corinthians 3;15, as their works are lukewarm, and thus eventually be saved as through a fire), where one is CHASTENED when judged by the Lord as to NOT be condemned, (1 Corinthians 11:32, Luke 12:47, Matthew 18:34,35, 1 Peter 3:19, "Who formerly disobeyed", James 2;13, (Galatians 3:7, Luke 16:24), (Romans 6:16, 1 Peter 4:18)), and where our spirits are MADE PEFECT, (Hebrews 12:23,24), as we shall each be held accountable for every careless word that we utter, (Matthew 12:36, Luke 6:37,38) as we must all STRIVE for that holiness without which no one can see the Lord, (Hebrews 12:14), unless of course, we have atoned for the temporal punishment due our sins, while still her on earth. "Break off your SINS by practicing righteousness and your iniquities by showing mercy to the oppressed." (Daniel 4:27), "Love one another, for love covers a multitude of sins." (1 Peter 4:8, Luke 11:41, James 5:20). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 6:27:05 AM PST
DoC, Actually, we are not justified and aquitted by our mere faith ALONE, for "It is by WORKS and NOT by faith ALONE that one is JUSTIFIED", (James 2:24, 1 Corinthians 13;2), and "It is OBEDIENCE that leads to RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Romans 6;16). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 6:42:08 PM PST
DoC BiC says:
Harold,
John 4:24 wasn't provided in support of the Trinity argument, but your God as physical body argument versus Spirit argument... that is the argument with which the verse will give you trouble.
Sorry if I didn't state that well enough.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 23, 2012 6:56:37 PM PST
No thoughts about the 12 Apostles sitting on thrones with Christ and Judging the 12 tribes?

If you read D&C 138 (link provided a few post back), you'd have noted that Christ delegated the teaching of those spirits in prison to others. Appears he is doing the same with the Judgement. ;-)

Brother Niv

Brother Niv
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