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Is Christopher Hitchens in heaven?


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Showing 151-175 of 1000 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 2:39:34 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
Mickey,
I hope you don't lose any sleep over it. (:

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 2:41:33 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
Spinoza,

Thanks for that info.

Now to me, that's truly giving of yourself to others.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 2:43:04 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 9, 2012 2:48:27 AM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Yes, for a long time people have said the physical experience may be the same but the interpretation may be different.

But I doubt that all Hindus see Krishna, some like Krishna, but some like Shiva, or Shiva's wife Kali. A Hindu might interpet it as God or something beyond God, Brahman. Lots of possiblities among Indians.

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

Best Wishes

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 3:09:17 AM PDT
rowley32256 says:
You have a biased perception of current research into the NDE. Science and the Near Death Experience - Carter; Consciousness Beyond Life - van Lommel; Light and Death - Sabom. If you had read the above and you are a truthful person you would not have claimed so definitively to know what is involved in an NDE. Respectfully.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 3:14:17 AM PDT
"Reformation theology is based on GRACE."

It is for believers, not for everybody else.

"At what point do you believe God draws the line between NO acceptance of Him, and simply doing good works for salvation?"

That's not what I am talking about. You don't believe that, God being just, is going to be able to point to the things that Hitchens has done, further note that he has refused the Grace God freely offers, then say "this is why you can't stay here"?

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 3:22:26 AM PDT
I hope so...

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 3:22:35 AM PDT
I hope so...

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 3:43:03 AM PDT
"Come on, fingers. Paul addresses that scenario. We do suffer the consequences of sin in the here and now and will not inherit in the Millennium if we are unfaithful, wicked servants (believers)."

Come on, Birtie, I was contrasting one extreme (which is all anybody seems to know around here) with another.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 4:31:35 AM PDT
Lao Tzu says:
rowley, I will also agree that Hitchens never took the time to address all the points of his adversary, he never does. But for two people somewhat talking past each other, Hitchens is amazing.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 4:32:51 AM PDT
Lao Tzu says:
Mac, what Hitchens hates is hypocrisy. I have not read that book, The Missionary Position, but I probably will at some point. Have seen him discuss it tho.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 4:34:44 AM PDT
Lao Tzu says:
Dr H says: This is a point that has always fascinated me about Christian believers. We can ask for and receive salvation up to, and including with our "last breath" -- but not beyond. Why not?

Lao says: quite frankly and literally, because you cannot collect money from them after that.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 4:37:51 AM PDT
Lao Tzu says:
"Howard's great sin, for which he almost paid the ultimate price, was nothing more than a belief in materialism, success, and self sufficiency. According to that book that's all that's required for someone to lose their soul."

Lao says: anyone else see the Evil in self denial?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 4:52:12 AM PDT
rowley32256 says:
Yes - I can agree with you on that.

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 4:54:48 AM PDT
Lao Tzu says:
Wow, I am coming close to a revelation. It took a lot of reading on these forums.

People, not given a definitive answer, will continue to speculate that either there is a personal god. that the universe is "one", or that the universe is material and indifferent to us. Those seem to be the basic 3 choices.

I am thinking there is no value in the discussion, that it is a poor use of scarce resources (my time). The 3 options will bubble up again and again, given human emotions, it would be like scooping water to create a hole in a pond.

There is value in making sure belief #1 does not harm me or anyone else. In this sense, I should be a vocal advocate.

I am pretty sure that these posts don't change anyone's mind. Not because that could not happen, but because people that are on the fence don't show up to these threads, or self select out (see my other posts on this). In any event, my posts, no matter whether they are well or poorly stated, may not end up convincing a Christian they need to drop the whole enterprise of trying to serve an imaginary entity.

So I have to admit my posts here are more of a compulsion, rather than altruism, or production. More like drinking a beer you know will make you feel lousy tomorrow.

It is very difficult for the Christians to argue in good faith consistently, because there is so much emotion attached to their beliefs. It is easier for atheists to do so, because they have no bias with regard to the facts (except of course a rational bias, if you wanted to call that a bias).

I am wondering if other atheists feel the same? Do you read these thread to debate, self express, or to read the posts of other atheists? I mean your deepest emotional motivation, not some kind of surface motivation.

Your responses are appreciated.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 5:03:32 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 9, 2012 5:04:10 AM PDT
Who DOESN'T hate hypocrisy?

Although hypocrisy CAN be in the eye of the beholder, which is why there can be a bit of a difference between a religion and its followers - who might not always adhere to it perfectly. Jesus upheld His teachings perfectly. As does the Holy Spirit through Christ's Church. But, the people? We are for the most part sinners to varying degrees - hence the need for the Sacrament of Reconciliation (confession) for those who are sincerely trying to follow the will of our Lord.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 7:25:50 AM PDT
rowley32256 says:
Lao: People, not given a definitive answer, will continue to speculate that either there is a personal god. that the universe is "one", or that the universe is material and indifferent to us. Those seem to be the basic 3 choices.

Rowley: If you include Hinduism within the first category (arguable), Buddhism in the second and atheism in the third, I think you've pretty much covered it. They represent IMHO the three rational assumptions about nature as a whole; and the key is that whichever position one takes, it is only an assumption - no proof or disproof exists of any of the three. But belief of any of the three kinds can be rational, because it offers explanatory value for what adherents make of the sum total of their objective and subjective experiences. As a Christian, I take it that God exists and find nothing contradictory to that in practice. A Buddhist may experience spirituality in a similar way to me but attribute it to something other than a personal God. A materialist denies the existence of the subjective that the other categories perceive in their own different ways and then establishes criteria for belief that secure that view.

I think it would be a complete waste of time posting on these boards with the primary aim of evangelizing anyone to one's own beliefs. But explaining one's rationale for belief without any such expectation seems to me valuable. It may help others to be more tolerant of differences and may even cause one to reflect on aspect of one's own belief that should be considered from a different angle. The key is a combination of tolerance, civility, and respect for differences in the cognitive humility that however strongly we may hold to our beliefs, we cannot expect anyone else to give the same weight to either our personal (subjective) experience, in the case of the first two groups, or of insistence upon eschewing the subjective in the case of the third. IMHO

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 9:25:16 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 9, 2012 10:57:44 AM PDT
A Customer says:
Bohemian Man says: "Hitchens showed the other side of Mother Teresa. He respected her for being honest about her doubts"

Sorry B-man but the fact is that he was a miserable human being, who had an almost pathological hatred for the woman. And regarding her years where she felt abandoned by God (and anyone who's ever read John of the Cross's Dark Night of the Soul can tell you this is a normal process in the purification process of mystics such as John or Teresa), Hitchens did NOT respect her, he merely used it as another excuse to attack her. For instance he quoted as saying; "She was no more exempt from the realization that religion is a human fabrication than any other person, and that her attempted cure was more and more professions of faith could only have deepened the pit that she had dug for herself." That is contempt, not respect. The man had a bizarre and creepy vendetta against a woman who devoted her whole life to serving God by living in the slums of India aiding the dying and the poor, poor that would normally die in a gutter, if not for her.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 10:59:59 AM PDT
Dr H says:
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rowley32256 sez:
Rowley: Not inevitable for any individual - choice
======
So you don't believe that God is omniscient, then?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 11:04:34 AM PDT
Dr H says:
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G. J. Stein sez:
...unless one is born of _water_ and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
======
And that which is born of water would be . . . water?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 11:15:15 AM PDT
Dr H says:
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Birutegal sez:
Anyone would choose to be in a state where there is no sorrow, no pain,
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There is no choice involved. Every one of us will eventually end up in that state. It's called "death".

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 11:18:12 AM PDT
Dr H says:
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Birutegal sez:
You don't get similes, do you?
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I thin I do, but feel free to explain further if you think I've messed something.

While you're at it you might explain how one can tell which absurd statements in the Bible are meant to be taken literally, and which absurd statements in the Bible are meant to be similes and metaphors.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 11:21:20 AM PDT
Dr H says:
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Birutegal sez:
I have to agree with you.
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Well thanks, I think.

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 11:29:37 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 9, 2012 11:33:40 AM PDT
leigh says:
Jesus said :-
"He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad."
(Matthew 12:30 and Luke 11:23)

James said :-
Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
(James 4:4)
(This adultery is 'spiritual adultery', meaning placing another person or thing before the worship of God, for example it can be your career or hobby!)

Araham's answer to the rich man, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead." (Luke 16:31)

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 11:32:57 AM PDT
Dr H says:
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Birutegal sez:
You are losing credibility with a post like that.
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How so? What I said is true: Code of Canon Law, Book II, Part III : 277 §2

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 11:36:14 AM PDT
Dr H says:
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B. Josephson sez:
And I like houw you add words to scriptures to make you point.
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Well, that is a tradition that goes back almost 2000 years.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  128
Total posts:  8125
Initial post:  Aug 7, 2012
Latest post:  Apr 7, 2013

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