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Jesus embodies the Unconditional Love of God for us.

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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 3:41:51 PM PDT
Kathy Dunkle says:
Thanks Anne..that's good to know. Unfortunately this is what the world is and all these people have a right to post their feelings...I do see a lot of pain, anger, boasting along with a great deal of knowledge. Hopefully they can bring a little "grace" to those like myself that are not as wise....and in doing so we could all learn and grow...

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 3:52:16 PM PDT
Anne Rice says:
Thanks, Kathy.
I do continue to learn in the forum, to make new friends, to
read posts that make me think.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 3:55:13 PM PDT
Kathy Dunkle says:
Jack I wasn't trying to take a scientific approach. Science can't explain what happened to me. No one can..I'm not trying to prove anything to experience was studied by Dr. Bruce Greyson a neuroscietist at the University of Virginia. I endured months of tests etc. The first place I went after getting out of the hospital was to church and I was met with the same hostility your showing..."What makes you think your so special", What do you think happened to you a miracle" then they walked out the door slamming it behind them. I was just as bewildered as they were angry...I don't claim to be able to explain anything except I had an instant conversion. Something did happen. That was 40 years ago and hasn't left me...My life changed dramatically ...all who know me saw the change. Something happened! 40 years ago I had never heard of a NDE....I'm just saying that they do happen and they are not all beautiful and full of light. I wish you weren't so angry.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 4:08:26 PM PDT
Kathy Dunkle says:
Thank you are an encouragement. I think we both have learned from each other. I have never questioned "religion" ...although I always knew that it was a relationship with Jesus Christ that was important...not religion. I really don't see them as going hand in hand. So many religions only one God. I do understand how church has hurt many people. The Bible tells us to not put our faith in mankind and it's mankinds interpretations that have discouraged us when Jesus wanted us to encourage each other. And I see that going on in this thread. But there are a lot of great comments as well.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 4:15:17 PM PDT
Kathy Dunkle says:
Have you ever studied the "Theory of Inclusion"? You might find it interesting...That Christ died that ALL might be saved? But even in this the fact that Evil does exist and that there is a place where evil dwells for eternity still remains.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 4:44:07 PM PDT
Anne Rice says:
Kathy, I for one am grateful that people who experience NDEs have the courage to
talk about them and write about them.
Because they do encounter a lot of dismissal and ridicule.
And certainly one of the patterns that emerges from Near Death Studies
is that the Experiencers are transformed usually for the better,
and they are transformed in specific ways.
Many come back with no fear of death; many feel deeply moved to help others;
many are deeply move to share their experience.
No one has ever been able to satisfactorily explain those changes.

If NDEs were hallucinations, the effects would likely be random.
I knew a lot of people who took LSD in the 60';s. Their transformations were
more random.

NDEs appear to be something else.
I'm grateful for every new well written and sincere account we receive.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 4:56:05 PM PDT
Isah Paethos says:
Or you would create some kind of purpose for yourself. Which is what I believe God did.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 5:00:15 PM PDT
Isah Paethos says:
Kathy, if I have studied it, it wasn't by the name "Theory of Inclusion". And I have no problem accepting the concept of evil and that evil does indeed exist. One, I witness evil every day of my life it seems. And, two, what would be the purpose of creation if contrasts and the ability to perceive them were not included?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 7:20:57 PM PDT
Anne Rice, The incarnation is just as absurd as the atonement, both biblical of course, (Luke 2:11, Genesis 22:8, Exodus 12;7, John 1;29, 1 Peter 1;19). You don't believe the bible do you, written by mere men? Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Christ

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 7:25:36 PM PDT
Anne Rice, I was just going to ask you the same. Why did you show up again on this thread too? You indeed don't respond to sarcasm, but you do know how to insult Christ's Church as you do on many threads, which is worse than sarcasm, then again, God will have the final say on on who is Right, you or His Church. Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 7:27:14 PM PDT
Anne Rice, Actually, Jesus our God is kind enough to warn us of the reality of hell for those who do evil and show no remorse. (Matthew 25:46, John 5:29, Luke 13;5). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 7:47:17 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 19, 2012 7:47:48 PM PDT
JagdTiger says:
Wow,that is the first time i think read something you posted without quoting scripture,i think anne got you upset just a little.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 19, 2012 7:49:16 PM PDT
Jad, Actually, I am rather used to it by now though! I continue to pray for her and ask her prayers for me. BY the way, the Most Precious Blood part is a quote from Scripture

Posted on Oct 20, 2012 12:22:24 AM PDT
Joe Anthony says:
@Anne Rice:

I don't see where you're going with this thread.

You keep saying how much you love Jesus, but at the same time you seem to want to trash Christianity.

What religion are you?

You sound like an agnostic who is captivated by the narrative and the message of Jesus Christ; but I'm not sure.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 6:25:43 AM PDT
As Eschatons go, I think "the Singularity" sounds cooler than "the Age of Aquarius" (that's so 60's!) or "the Apocalypse" or "the end of the Mayan calendar" or "the Kali Yuga."

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 8:22:58 AM PDT
Anne Rice says:
I'm not a member of or supporter of any religion.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 9:04:26 AM PDT
Anne Rice, YET, you believe in the biblical notion of the incarnation,, (Luke 1:36,37), and reject the biblical notion of the atonement! (Luke 2:11, Matthew 1;21, 1 John 1:7, Romans 4:25, Matthew 26;28, 1 John 1:7). You then reject Christ's Church that gave us the new testament canon that affirms the biblical notion of the incarnation and biblical notion of Religion in which God reveals His manifold wisdom through His Church. (Ephesians 3;10, Luke 10:16, John 16:13, John 21:17, Matthew 16;18, 1 Thessalonians 5;12). Peace always on your journey into truth. Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Jesus our Great God and Saviour

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 9:21:01 AM PDT
Anne Rice says:
Words like "you seem to want to trash Christianity" are not helpful
in a discussion like this.
It's my experience that followers of Jesus are often more than critical
of various strains of Christianity. Protestant believers tend to criticize
Catholic Christianity and vice versa, and this Forum is filled with posts
from independent believers who are critical of "religion."
I think our discussions work here when we make meaningful distinctions.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 10:47:45 AM PDT
Kathy Dunkle says:
Your right Isah, it used to be called Universalism. I studied it for almost a year...I loved what it said even though my "church" stongly discouraged what I was doing. The only thing I can't buy is that they don't believe in hell. I'm not sure if it was HELL I was in or something with some other name...hell is the only word I have to describe this place. It was all the Bible says it separation from God, total darkness, the sensation of burning, and complete isolation along with the knowledge it would never end. But it did and how can I not believe that happened? I'm not one to dwell on evil but rather the incredible love that I've recieved by knowing Jesus Christ. I do see perfect balance in our world...sun comes up...goes down...sea comes in and goes out...good, see we've been given examples all around us. I think people that deny hell or evil just can't bare the thought of such a place and I have to agree with them...I don't like it either, but that doesn't make it not true.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 11:00:14 AM PDT
Kathy Dunkle says:
Thank you Anne. I was discouraged by most of my friends and mentors about coming out with my story because they knew the ridicule would come. I was told to "let the eperience be your motivation for bringing people to Christ". I was fine with that too. But I had a nagging in my heart to tell the story and it just wouldn't go away. In my mind it was what God wanted me to any ridicule or dismissal just passes me by. I spend time in prayer, in God's word and my heart is to do what I feel God is leading me to do. I just can't ever question what the outcome will be...
I've said it once before, that I believe EVERYONE will have this experience during the dying process. Those that have had NDE's are just that NEAR death, and we've glimpsed into what ALL will experience.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 11:14:10 AM PDT
JagdTiger says:
There are videos on youtube with people that have had the exact same you are in good company.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 11:17:29 AM PDT
Anne Rice says:
What's significant to me about what you experienced is that
it was temporary and it was transformative.
I think what horrifies a lot of us about the Christian idea of Hell
is that it is not reversible, does not transform and is supposed to last for eternity.
Unspeakable suffering for eternity for a fallible human being to no purpose.
Some of us cannot imagine a Supreme Being inflicting such a fate on any human being.

Your experience was really entirely different.

Posted on Oct 20, 2012 11:19:38 AM PDT
B-Jak says:
How does someone you can't see embody anything?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 11:27:25 AM PDT
Anne Rice says:
Christianity and Judaism are bibliocentric religions.
They are based on books.
And the story of Jesus is in the New Testament
and in the biblical apocrypha.
Historically, the story of Jesus brought monotheism into the
Roman Empire and eventually paganism died out because of this.
Since then Western culture has been profoundly influenced by
Christian ideas, images, values, figures, etc.
The image of Jesus is virtually everywhere ---- in painting, sculpture,
in architecture, in the popular arts, in film and in television,
and of course in the public imagination.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2012 12:08:01 PM PDT
Kathy Dunkle says:
I certainly agree that the concept of an everlasting hell is beyond the reach of what we as humans can understand. I too hate the thought of hell and can not understand anyone going there...not even the worst vile human being. But if hell is not everlasting, then I would have to question if Heaven is everlasting? Here is what I experienced. I knew I was responsible for my being in hell. I 'm not sure how I knew that, I just did. I didn't think God sent me there...I knew I was responsible for being there.
I wasn't a horrible person....I was a mom that had lost her son and was angry with the concept of a loving God! I hated an all powerful being that killed my son! No one could change my mind on that.
As I fell into the total darkness I knew it would never end. I remember thinking I will never hit bottom, I won't die, I can't commit suicide, no one could lower a rope, no ladders...NO ONE knew I was there...Not even God! I was screaming that I believed in God and I begged Him to save me from this place but I knew He didn't hear one did. Then it all stopped...I started spirolling backwards through the tunnel...I knew God reached in and brought me out...I couldn't believe it and I can't describe the incredible sesation of knowing I was free...I cried out God why did you bring me back, I deserved to be in hell... and I didn't hear spoken words but I heard "Bring people to me". After that I felt "the actual WILL TO LIVE" enter back into my body and I went from being in the presence of the incredible love of God to wanting to live! I don't really have the right words to describe that moment...other than it was a physical transformation...then I woke up screaming....there is a God...He really that point I saw the many doctors and machines and tubes coming from every part of my body....they put me back under and I woke up in the recovery room...
I never heard the word "hell" was just a place where evil went. But I've read so many accounts in the Bible that describe hell as I saw it..."Going down into the pit" Ps.30. The lake of fire....many I call it hell. I don't begin to believe I could convince anyone and that's not my purpose is to Bring people to God... what I know as the savior...the incredible love...the freedom from pain and all the emotions...just everlasting peace that passes all understanding!
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This discussion

Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  49
Total posts:  1285
Initial post:  Oct 17, 2012
Latest post:  Jan 20, 2013

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