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Is Christopher Hitchens in heaven?


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Posted on Aug 8, 2012 12:31:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 12:35:42 PM PDT
I believe that our consciousness or whatever that part of us it is that exists and interacts in whatever dimensions it can sense cannot be destroyed since Einstein postulated that matter and energy cannot be destroyed and no one can disprove it. Because of that, I speculate that our conscience can thrive for a while after the body that hosts it dies. I have no idea for how long, but I pray that it is long enough for someone to have a conversation with God after the body dies. In that prayer, there is hope that just about every single one of us will survive that simple interview and move forward to the next dimension.

As for the scumbags of history, I picture them not being freed from the forces of this universe and eventually being sucked into black hole after black hole after black hole until another singularity is formed. Eventually, another big bang will occur and whatever subatomic particle/energy form they have become will have been purified by fire and they'll exist in some sentient form or another XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX amount of years in the future and they'll get another chance, with perhaps zero recollection of the horrific and evil life they lived on earth so many eons prior to that, with a chance at doing it just right enough to get by that next time around. I wonder, too, if that is what is in store for Satan. The parable of the prodigal son might just be a glimpse of that "eternity" as well as preparation for the holy rollers to not be shocked when people like me are their neighbors in heaven.

Long story short: Yeah, I think I'll see him there.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 12:37:43 PM PDT
Mine either.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 12:38:29 PM PDT
Heaven and earth shall pass awy.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 12:45:00 PM PDT
I prefer the scripture in John chapter 3 that simplifies it a bit saying that we must be born of spirit. Meaning, we must die. Dying enables that part of us that is our core (whatever that is, spirit should work for anyone since we still don't really know what it is that we are at our core) to travel to and fro, like the wind, unseen.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 1:04:52 PM PDT
Enjoy your mansion! I'll take a broom closet or a park bench. When I knock on your door and ask to have a room in your mansion, you'll likely say "come on in". If not, I'll tell God on you.

I'll be the Cato Cailin of heaven.

Posted on Aug 8, 2012 1:22:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 1:23:06 PM PDT
rowley32256 says:
Chris Hitchens was an intelligent, entertaining, engaging and infuriatingly arrogant guy. I have read his books and observed him debating with the likes of Dinesh D'Souza. I disagreed with almost everything he stood for especially his intolerance of those who disagreed with him: "My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, anyplace, anytime. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass." - Christopher Hitchens.

Hitchens went out of his way to attack religion and pour scorn on the God he did not believe in - titling his most popular book God is not Great and demanding that those believers charitable enough to pray for him cease doing so. I don't know what more one would have to do to alienate oneself from God and I'm sure that if most people had the opportunity to judge someone who despised them in that way they would wish the worst for him. But Jesus is not like most men; even if it was only in his last breath that Hitchens asked for forgiveness and accepted the atoning sacrifice of Jesus I believe he will have been saved. Equally, I cannot see that God would force someone to accept his offer of love who had so comprehensively refused it. "Hell is God's great compliment to the reality of human freedom and the dignity of human choice."- GK Chesterton. "There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.' All that are in Hell chose it."CS Lewis

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 1:28:57 PM PDT
libloon2 says:
Bohemian man says: //Do you believe God sends people to hell for following their conscience?//

Some "believers" would say NO. God just sent him to Purgatory.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 1:31:21 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 3:42:29 PM PDT
libloon2 says:
andthehorseirodeinontoo? says: //what is the name of what your beliefs are?//

Maybe YOU should tell us the name of YOUR religion.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 1:36:09 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 5:05:45 PM PDT
Dr H says:
------
Jack Vix sez:
"I don't want this, it would be hell for me."
======
Then, ironically, if there is a heaven and a hell, Hitchens probably went to heaven as punishment for his unbelief. ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 1:36:30 PM PDT
Lao Tzu says:
rowley, would you agree with me that Hitchens wiped the floor with Dinesh in those debates?

And I am NOT saying that because I happen to agree with Hitchen's position, but because there were gigantic holes in Dinesh's arguments. He just seemed kind of clownish to me, I am sorry to say.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 1:54:52 PM PDT
rowley32256 says:
No, I wouldn't agree with that. Hitchens was almost certainly smarter than D'Souza and could have exposed the holes in the latter's case. But he came across as arrogant and missed opportunities IMHO by simply restating his own weak case. It's very hard to defeat someone in debate for whose opinions you have complete contempt. Hitchens seemed angry with the God in which he did not believe for all the ills caused by his fellow humans.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 2:24:40 PM PDT
Macheath says:
When I think of people "following their conscience", Hitchens is not at the top of my list. He seemed a conceited and arrogant jerk, who needlessly vilified Mother Teresa, for example. You couldn't help but feel he attacked her because her life of caring and serving others brought his attention to his own ugliness and self-centeredness. And he hated her for that. I am sure there are atheists who have hearts of gold, and Hitchens wasn't one of them.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 2:31:40 PM PDT
B. Josephson says:
Watts is fun reading, but really he is just 60s fluff. I don't think any scholars quote him today.

Campbell is a little better, but his main idease that are good come form Jung and Lord Raglan. Most scholars ignore him, except in English departments.

If you want to get a bettr idea of religion red Mircea Eliade, with the understanding that even he is a bit controversial. He is one of the founders of History of Religion, and taught for many years at the University of Chicago. He is quoted by some scholars, particularly for his books The Myth of the Eternal Return and Shamanism,

Best Wishes,
Shaamba Kaambwaat

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 2:37:53 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 2:38:12 PM PDT
Dr H says:
------
rowley32256 sez:
... even if it was only in his last breath that Hitchens asked for forgiveness and accepted the atoning sacrifice of Jesus I believe he will have been saved.
======
This is a point that has always fascinated me about Christian believers. We can ask for and receive salvation up to, and including with our "last breath" -- but not beyond. Why not?

Part of the essential core of Christian belief is that we are each an immortal soul, destined to endure for an eternity once we depart this vale of tears. Eternity is a long, long, long time compared with the paltry few decades we spend in mortal life. Is it inconceivable that somewhere in that infinite expanse of duration a soul might come to re-evaluate its priorities and perhaps seek the salvation it neglected in the relative eyeblink of time it spent on Earth?

Do we lose the ability to think when we exist only as a soul?

Or do we lose free will upon death, existing forever from that point only as ectoplasmic automotons, subject to the whim of the almighty Creator?

If so, then having free will on Earth seems rather purposeless, since following it to salvation would guarantee nothing more than eternity spent as less than a pet -- a mere animate object to be capriciouly shifted about on some Godly mantelpiece.

Or is it that we cease to develop and grow in the spirit world, stagnating forever in whatever state we managed to attain in our ~three score plus ten? Never thinking a new thought, discovering a new truth, or accomplishing any new thing; eternally ignorant of any progress or change, stuck with rehashing the same old thoughts and attitudes over, and over, and over, ad infanitum?

How would that be different from Hell?

In either case, the God that would enact such scenarios would be, in my book, evil. A devil, not a God.

The only alternative God worthy of the name that would make sense is one that would allow that salvation could happen at anytime, including after death. In which case, the vast majority of Earthly Christians are talking trash.

Or in the words of the old blues song, "All them talking about heaven ain't going there."

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 2:40:14 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Bohemian Man says:

[Do you believe God sends people to hell for following their conscience ?]

You might be interested in the following book:

My Descent Into Death and the Message of Love Which Brought Me Back

The author is former atheist Howard Storm. Howard had an NDE (Near Death Experience). He claims that he went into some part of Hell for a time while his body was clinically dead.

Demons spoke to me for about 4 days straight back in October. They referred to the place Howard went into as the 'waiting room' of hell. That's a place where souls go who are not totally sure if they want to enter the abyss forever.

During his harrowing journey Howard found out that the true explanation for the behavior of people like Jeffrey Dahmer will not be found in psychology, in childhood experiences, or any other pseudo scientific cause. It will be found in the spirit world. People like Dahmer express their intense desire to get into Hell and be separated from God forever.

But yet Howard Storm was no Jeffrey Dahmer. He was no Hitler. Howard's great sin, for which he almost paid the ultimate price, was nothing more than a belief in materialism, success, and self sufficiency. According to that book that's all that's required for someone to lose their soul.

Do all atheists go to Hell ? I doubt it. 'All' is implying absolute certainty for all cases. Besides atheists there are many people who really don't even care if God exists. I'm not sure where they fit in.

But do some atheists go to Hell ? Howard Storm did for awhile. I suspect many others weren't as fortunate as him to be given a second chance to come back to this physical world.

This Hitchens guy sounds like he became a powerful force for atheism and encouraged other people to get on that path. Perhaps this is more serious than just being an atheist. The illustrious Stephen Hawking has taken on a similar role. Hawking views science as some sort of all seeing, all knowing, all powerful god.

Hell is probably something people want. It's a separation from God. Some people are born to accomplish this separation in various ways.

People say and do many things in this world, especially in this current age we live in where anything goes. The question is what is the real truth ? Hell is one of those truths.

"Hell is truth seen too late." - H.G. Adams (et al)

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 2:41:30 PM PDT
Harry Marks says:
Thank you for these recommendations. It is rare to run across recommended reading that is right square in the middle of the topic of interest, and is on a topic of such interest.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 2:43:42 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
StevePL says:

[spl: Yes, I met God. No, I didn't "see" Him visually, no one can do that and live.]

That's not totally true. What Moses saw during the so called burning bush experience was a manifestation of God's presence. I don't think this was a tree that talked. I believe what the bible is saying there is Moses encountered something very strange out in the forest.

Also during the Exodus story God appeared directly to Moses and some other people and walked among them. That was when Moses' sister and Aaron were giving Moses a hard time about getting married to an Ethiopian woman. Although I don't know what the issue was.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 2:47:40 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Aug 27, 2012 1:31:21 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 3:01:16 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 4:22:21 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Michael Settle says:

[When you ask if God sends people to hell for following their conscience, you betray your belief that the individual conscience is ultimate arbiter.]

That's a good point. There have been many cases where individuals remained true to what they believed but what they believed was evil.

I see this a lot on TV shows about the Italian mafia. When someone becomes a made man in the mafia a picture of a saint is placed in their hand and set on fire. They are told that if they ever violate the laws of La Cosa Nostra they will burn in hell just like the saint. It's a nice story but when faced with a lifetime behind bars they often betray those vows of honor and secrecy however.

Thomas "Tommy Karate" Pitera is an interesting case. He was bullied as a kid in school and he used to watch the TV show The Green Lantern. He started studying karate and even traveled to Japan to study in their martial arts schools. He learned karate and also the ideals of the Samurai warriors with their code of bravery and honor. But all of this got twisted around in Pitera's mind when he joined the mafia and he used his martial arts skills to become a brutal enforcer and vicious killer. But Tommy never cooperated with the police.

John Gotti also remained true to his mafia vows and never cooperated with law enforcement. He was sent to prison for life. Gotti never really understood who and what he even was. He lived based on what he thought was right but he was very wrong.

There have been other criminal geniuses like Ted Kaczynski, the UnABomber. Hitler also believed in what he was doing and Adolf is also considered by some people to be a criminal genius.

Osama Bin Ladin believed he was the reincarnation of the Islamic hero Saladin who drove the infidel Christians out of the Holy Land. And I wouldn't doubt that he probably was. Bin Ladin thought he was still racing across the desert sands on his steed, sword in hand, to drive out the infidels. He could still hear the crowds cheering and calling out his name.

Batman's many enemies are true believers. Bane for example. The entire Batman character is based on people, both good and bad, who act based on a belief, a philosophy, an ideal.

Usually criminals are motivated by nothing more than pure greed. But there are those rare cases where they really believe in what they are doing.

Jeff Marzano

Mein Kampf Official Nazi Translation

Gotti: The Rise and Fall of a Real Life Mafia Don

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 3:20:16 PM PDT
'I don't know - that sounds awfully Catholic. The problem with that is you've got the sword of Damocles hanging over your head all the time. "Oh no, I just told a lie. I'M GOING TO HELL!"'

Maybe you'd prefer "once saved always saved". Convert to Christianity, shoot your neighbor in the head. No problem.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 3:23:44 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Dr H says:

[The only alternative God worthy of the name that would make sense is one that would allow that salvation could happen at anytime, including after death.]

Christian philosophy took a wrong turning when they threw out the idea of reincarnation. I'm not sure why that happened. Edgar Cayce felt that shortcuts were taken when the basic tenets of Christian belief were established.

But I suspect it often takes many lifetimes, many choices, for someone to lose their soul.

The cycles of reincarnation and mortality may be tied in with the astrological cycles. Apparently it takes the sun 25,800 years to move through the 12 astrological ages. Some ancient cultures felt that each astrological age has its own unique influences on human affairs.

According to the Mayan calendar and the 2012 idea we are at the very end of that 25,800 year cycle right now. The great Platonic Year will end on December 21. A day of reckoning and judgment for our world perhaps, who knows. And perhaps also a day of reckoning for souls.

Perhaps the Book Of Revelation is true and the great reaper of souls has his scythe in hand now for the harvest.

I believe this.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 3:40:23 PM PDT
"The jury's out."

And you're not it.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 3:57:46 PM PDT
Mickey says:
If some Christians are correct, God sends anyone to hell who doesn't gratify his ego - it's all about his ego.

I hope they're wrong. They probably are.

Posted on Aug 8, 2012 4:21:38 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 5:32:51 PM PDT
Spinoza says:
No, because there is no Heaven, Hell or God, and Hitch would agree with me. ;-)

Christopher Hitchens, a man I greatly admire, is in cold storage at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, as he requested in his will that his body be donated for scientific research after his death.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 4:25:31 PM PDT
rowley32256 says:
Dr H says: "This is a point that has always fascinated me about Christian believers. We can ask for and receive salvation up to, and including with our "last breath" -- but not beyond. Why not? ... In either case, the God that would enact such scenarios would be, in my book, evil. A devil, not a God."

Rowley: If we haven't decided in life that we'd like to be with God forever, what would likely change upon death? I recommend The Great Divorce by CS Lewis.
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